krosp

Haha this has gone right over my head now. But it is still interesting to watch the discussion and try to figure it out. When I was breeding them (as a teenager) all I knew about was roughly the dominance of the basic colours (blue, green etc) and the normal/spangle stuff. Which is why it was kind of strange when Sunny boy had different looking yellow budgies in each generation of his family. I'm a bit confused about how he can be cinnamon - he had pale grey markings, like how his tail was pale grey. I don't understand how he could be both cinnamon and greywing. Obviously he must have carried it though at least, since his daughters were cinnamon... but are you saying he could have physically manifested as both greywing and cinnamon in a kind of blend? Is the bright yellow grandson a clearwing then? And if so does that mean the spangle father somehow gave the clearness so to speak? He had red eyes as a baby and doesn't now, if that helps.

I still think it would be better to start with your own male in the first place. I think it could be quite stressful to both your birds to come from being on their own, to being put together, raising a clutch, and then being separated again and for your friend's boy to have to go back to being an only budgie pet again...and for your hen to then have to bond to someone else... OR... bond to one of her own children (which you could not allow her to mate with). Others might know more about this - budgies can be quite adaptable sometimes but I do think this seems a bit risky to me when you could just have your own from the start and save the hassle. Also, I'm just thinking in terms of the logistics of borrowing a friend's pet for a few months. Your friend might think it's a good idea now but what if they change their mind and miss their budgie too much? You can't just pull him out of the nest. What if the hen only has one chick? Will it be yours or your friend's? Are you both in full agreement on all the practical issues involved in taking your friend's budgie for a few months or longer? Do you think there's any chance your friend will let you keep him for good? Just some food for thought.

Hehe okay good, I've given you all an interesting one to work out apparently :hap: I don't know about dilution. In my mind, diluted budgies look kind of pale and faded. He was still a bright colour overall. But I am probably wrong-I know nothing about dilution. If he's a greygreen and not yellow, then how did his also greygreen daughter produce such a bright yellow boy when paired with a sky spangle? (I know very little about budgie genetics once you go beyond the basics)

This is Sunny Boy. I had him from 1996 to 2005, and he was a fantastic pet - incredibly tame. He was an only budgie for a few years, but eventually we got others and he even had a few babies. I'm remembering him a lot lately because I've got Cosmo now. And with my renewed interested in budgies, I have become curious about what type Sunny Boy actually was. I might put up some pics of his babies too if that helps. Sorry these are all old - they were all taken in the late 90s. His back: His front (note his head is a brighter shade of yellow than his body): Side on (note grey tail): --- This is Sunny Boy and his partner (the green one - not the blue one). Front: Back: All I know about her genetically is that when paired with a sky normal later on, she produced green and sky spangles. With Sunny Boy, she had olive normals and spangles, and some yellow ones. But the yellow ones had different markings. Two of the yellow ones, I think were cinnamon. The other one had grey markings like Sunny Boy. The yellow ones were all female. The yellow one who looked like Sunny Boy... (Maestro)... she paired up with a sky spangle, and only had two surviving chicks, and both were a really bright clear yellow with next to no markings - not murky like her and sunny boy. Two of his daughters (unfortunately I only took their pics as babies): Sunny Boy's grandson: I believe that all these were born with red eyes, but can't remember if they stayed red (the grandson obviously didn't). I got Sunny Boy after his first moult and never saw him with red eyes so I have no idea what they were when he was born. ---------- okay I know I've given you WAY too much family information when you can probably look at Sunny Boy himself and tell me what he is. But if anyone's got time on their hands and enjoys this kind of things you could analyse his genes if you feel like it. I don't mind if nobody does, I'm just curious as to what you'd call Sunny Boy. Thanks

WOW! What a beautiful budgie family. I love looking at all baby budgie photos and find many of them especially nice, but this was the first time I felt very breathtaken by them. ... they are so beautiful!!! As you can see I have a huge soft spot for them and will be watching closely out of interest By The Way I had a white budgie called Lily once

They're all gorgeous photos, I love how determined they look getting into the corn, with the little foot up on it and everything. I had a soft spot for this photo though Looks like she's pretty much fallen asleep on the corn after all the effort aww

Thanks for that rainbow, it's good to know what beaking means! I was not getting biting and beaking confused. He is beaking a lot at the moment, but mostly with the collar of my shirt and with my hair (as well as pretty much everything in his cage and other environments he's placed in). The "biting" i was talking about (which isn't really biting anyway) was his little grunts and snapping at air. But I'm pretty happy with the conclusions on here about what I should do about that. Thanks for all your help!

Hi Elise. Great that you're thinking things through and looking for information before you make a big decision like this! The first time I ever bred budgies was when I was 13 too. We had just got a small aviary and got 6 budgies for it, and then we bred with one pair. I guess we knew what we needed to know for the most part but I obviously knew nothing compared to what I know now (and I still have tons to learn!) It was an amazing experience, but it was also really devastating. We had three chicks, and I became incredibly attached to the first one. Then when my oldest chick was about 3 weeks old, I came home from school and my mum told me that the chick was dead - the mother had plucked the babies and the one I was most attached to had died. After that, my mum had to hand raise the other two, which involved coming home from work every two hours to feed the babies! It was very expensive and time consuming, and one of them died. So even though we thought we were doing everything right at the time, something still went wrong and it took a lot of time, money, energy and emotional effort. I still think it was worth it, but it was really sad and I wouldn't recommend anybody start to breed their pet budgies without a lot of preparation. It sounds to me like you are planning not to buy any new cages or anything, but to just put your friend's budgie together with yours for a while and end up with some new babies and then give your friend their pet back. I honestly don't think that's going to work. If you do want to breed babies, make sure you are ready, and I would recommend getting a new male budgie of your own to breed with - not one that belongs to somebody else that you have to share. Hope that helps. It is a wonderful thing to do but takes a lot of preparation- I hope you can find a way to make it work for you one day in the right circumstances! :laughter:

Thanks all for your comments. Thanks Neat for the bump He actually hasn't bitten me at all yet. Or maybe once, but it was more of a tap, my skin didn't actually get between his beak. He's not aiming to hurt or anything... he just gives me a warning. It's just happening a few times a day now, when previously it didn't happen before at all (but he was more scared then, so would just fly away rather than threaten). At the moment, if I put my finger out for him to step up on, or offer him a head scratch, he usually accepts it, but just occasionally (maybe 10% of the time) grunts and bites air. Of course, I don't need to test my theory that he would be doing it 100% of the time if it was past his bedtime - he is very obvious about when he wants to go to bed I think what you've said is good - I haven't reinforced it by yelling or moving quickly or making a fuss, I just ignore it but stop doing what I was doing at the first warning sign. Like if I offer a head scratch and he grunts, I just move my hand away without making a big deal out of it. I have never pushed it until he's bitten unless I had to (e.g. helping him get unstuck out of something) and even then he doesn't bite, he just makes a fuss. I'm glad to hear that it's not a dominance thing - I like to think he's just communicating and if I keep it small and not let it escalate it will be a positive thing overall.Yes he is not moulting yet but I wouldn't be surprised if he's over 3 months old. That seemed to be the general consensus when I put his photo up. Thanks again! Sorry what do you mean by beaking?

Yeah this part of it never gets any easier hey :hug: A yf violet sounds so beautiful

Why is he letting you get a budgie if he is afraid of bird flu? Surely if it's contagious enough you'd get it anyway whether you handle it or not? There's no risk of getting bird flu from budgies in Australia. If there was, you can be sure that the sensationalist media would be all over it by now.

I am so sorry to hear that, it's so upsetting when you lose a special baby that you expected to be fine. I know how hard it can be, I had a plucker once who killed a couple that I was particularly attached to. What a horrible thing to come home to. I agree that in my experience the hen can't really be trusted again unfortunately.

Great to hear that the wing clipping worked. It doesn't hurt them when it's done right, and it is a bit sad cos it takes some time for them to get used to, but don't feel guilty about it - sounds like you've done the right thing and he's even happy for it anyway. If his biting is all gone then that's great. But I would expect him to maybe always be a bit of a biter, I think because of the splayed legs he has very little control over his world, and biting may be the only way for him to communicate what he wants because he can't run away or anything like that. Also it might make him feel better and more in control if he's a bit more anxious than other birds that have more mobility than he does. Anyway if he's biting less that's great.

Recently, Cosmo has started to give little threats when he's not happy with something. For example, if I put my finger near him for him to step up on or to offer a scratch, he'll usually accept, but if he doesn't want it, he has started to grunt a little, and open his beak or bite air. He previously would have just run away from my hand if he didn't want it. He doesn't actually bite, it's very gentle but it's enough of a warning for me to know that he doesn't want me to touch him right now. I kind of see this as a good thing in a way, that he's communicating what he doesn't want. But thinking it through, it could be interpreted in a number of ways which vary in how good or bad they are so I thought i'd see what you all think. My theories: 1) He's finally comfortable enough to be assertive with me rather than fearful. I see this as a good thing if he's just expressing what he wants and I respect that. 2) He's unhappy and becoming cranky (a very bad thing) 3) He's trying to establish dominance over me, and I shouldn't be reinforcing the behaviour. 4) He's becoming an adolescent and is just moody. Or, there could be other explanations entirely. I've also noticed that he's starting nibbling and chewing on things in general a lot more than he did before... just whatever, the branches, toys in his cage, whatever he happens to find. Which to me is pretty normal but thought I'd mention it anyway in case it's related. Happy analysing :hug:

I kicked a snowman because I think I need some serious help.

I got a new baby budgie a few weeks ago, and he did nothing but sit on his swing for the entire first day. He spent the next week or so exploring and trying to escape from his cage (involving tipping out his seed trying to burrow his way out through the seed tray). Now he loves his cage and is pretty good with sitting on our fingers or shoulder. So that is very normal for the first day.

It's funny how we joked about if we had to replace it and saying to the real estate "Oh didn't you know, they always change colour?" And then it turns out I ended up with a bird that might actually change colour :ohmygod:

They still haven't seen this one yet!

Yep so she's a creamino Creamino can vary in how white or yellow it is. But the red eyes doesn't automatically mean it's lutino rather than creamino. Because creamino is kind of like a combination of lutino and albino, and both of those have red eyes, therefore creaminos have red eyes too.

I don't have much advice to give or anything, but all I wanted to say was that when it comes to their markings (e.g. throat spots) I wouldn't worry too much as long as the bird seems healthy. It's just the way she is! I have no idea whether it's characteristic in pieds or not. Sounds beautiful - can't wait for a picture. Best of luck

Ooh that's exciting- he will change colour :bliss:

Interesting... when I first posted pictures of Cosmo some people thought he was YF1 and some thought YF2 but it seemed to come down to a general consensus that he was YF2. Then in my next bunch of photos, people think he's YF1. Now I don't know and am interested to hear people's opinions. Only problem is, it's impossible to get a photo that shows his colour accurately. Flash makes him look bright teal/sky colour so that's the most wrong, but non-flash kind of accurately gets his shade of blue, but doesn't show up the subtle blue-green mottling that he has all over. So photos seem a bit pointless but I'll give as good a description as I can: He has the most yellow on his face, and yellow is going through his wings but it is strongest towards the bottom of the wing as it gets closer to the flight feathers. The feathers on his neck are very pale stripes - it could even be white, I can't quite tell. Under his wings seems to be a more clear shade of cobalt, and white, but I am referring to the part of his body that is under his wings. I haven't actually been able to get a good look at the underside of his wings themselves. His front body feathers are cobalt, but it almost seems to be a kind of more dull shade of cobalt than other cobalt's I've had. It's still bright and pretty, not like it's grey, but it isn't that pure stark cobalt. If you look closely, it looks slightly greenish, but not distinctively so- you'd call him a blue bird not a green or even blue-green bird most probably. Around his legs is more blue, around his cheeks is more green. The patch of feathers above his tail and between his wings is very vivid blue, and has some actual dark green feathers on it too. So, what are your thoughts? I lean towards YF2 myself but can see how he could be YF1 because he's not THAT yellowed if you know what I mean. For those who want a picture: (although I maintain that it isn't exactly his true colour blue)

Wow! They are both so so beautiful.

I don't know but I wouldn't be worried for a while yet, as I think it just has something to do with being fertile and laying eggs. I can't remember how long our hens used to have big poops for, but I thought it could even have been well into raising the chicks?

I clipped Cosmo's wings when we first got him, but not very short, so he can still fly short distances, and around the middle sort of height of the room (as in, not up on the ceiling). So maybe pixi did it in a similar way. Anyway..... I agree - I saw it as a good thing in a way when Cosmo started flying back to his cage, because it means he likes his cage and has settled in there. When we first got him he did everything he could to try to escape the cage, so even though it was annoying i was glad when he started to prefer his cage. But it does make it harder. I wouldn't say your bird is completely untame, he's just getting there slowly as they do. Keep it up and try to spend short periods of time away from the cage. But not too long in one go.... try and finish up on a good note, and don't overdo it each time. Sounds like you're on the right track