jaznjj

Can recommend vet Rob Marshall's book if you want preventative or treatment regimes for budgerigars, particulary in aviaries. Jaz

Hi folk, pardon my ignorance; could somebody please explain what a cholla log is?

Yes Pearce, you are right on target. Your Dark green to Dark green should give you one light green, two dark greens and an olive. Dave and Jim are correct too - it is a theoretical ratio and if you bred 100 chicks the numbers would work out pretty close to that 1:2:1 ratio but individual nests will show variability. Mauve to mauve will always give you mauve. Another example for you to study on: a light green to a dark green is dd x dD = dd, dd, dD and dD (half light greens and half dark greens). Once you have got this method in your head you'll never have to work it out on paper again. To answer your questions: Skyblue x dark green (dd x dD) If the dark green is double factor green you will get half light green and half dark green birds but they will be carrying blue as a recessive. If the dark green is already split blue you will get half birds with no dark factors (skyblues or light greens split for blue) and half birds with one dark factor (cobalts or dark greens split for blue). Dark green with mauve: (dD x DD) If the dark green is double factor green you will get half dark greens and half olives and they will be carrying blue as a recessive. If the Dark green is split for blue you will get half the birds with one dark factor (cobalts or dark greens split for blue) and half birds with two dark factors (mauves or olives split for blue). Light green to olive will give you all birds with one dark factor, that is all dark greens.The equivalent in blue series is skyblue to mauve which will give you all cobalts.I wish I could figure out how to send these posts with breaks between paragraphs. I try to set it out so it can be easily understood but something happens in posting and it all gets mushed together. You anticipated me! Our posts crossed. Yes, I think you have the trick.

Yes Pearce, you are right on target. Your Dark green to Dark green should give you one light green, two dark greens and an olive. Dave and Jim are correct too - it is a theoretical ratio and if you bred 100 chicks the numbers would work out pretty close to that 1:2:1 ratio but individual nests will show variability. Mauve to mauve will always give you mauve. Another example for you to study on: a light green to a dark green is dd x dD = dd, dd, dD and dD (half light greens and half dark greens). Once you have got this method in your head you'll never have to work it out on paper again. To answer your questions: Skyblue x dark green (dd x dD) If the dark green is double factor green you will get half light green and half dark green birds but they will be carrying blue as a recessive. If the dark green is already split blue you will get half birds with no dark factors (skyblues or light greens split for blue) and half birds with one dark factor (cobalts or dark greens split for blue). Dark green with mauve: (dD x DD) If the dark green is double factor green you will get half dark greens and half olives and they will be carrying blue as a recessive. If the Dark green is split for blue you will get half the birds with one dark factor (cobalts or dark greens split for blue) and half birds with two dark factors (mauves or olives split for blue). Light green to olive will give you all birds with one dark factor, that is all dark greens.The equivalent in blue series is skyblue to mauve which will give you all cobalts.

I have not heard of anyone breeding a black budgerigar - but it could be a challenge for someone by selectively breeding birds carrying more and more black in the markings and watch out for mutations with misplaced black markings in the body feather and working it up from there. I don't think it likely that a completely black budgerigar will just spring up from nowhere. Varieties today have sprung from mutations which have been spotted by someone who has then worked with the material they have to produce what we have today. Goodness knows how many new mutations have appeared, but not been seen by someone who knows what to do with them. In the wild, mutations tend to be counter-survival so they don't reproduce, or if the mutation is recessive there are insufficient numbers to counter the mass-attrition which affects wild flocks.

Hi, Jaz here. When I was first learning about how this all worked, I used a diagram a bit like this:Example 1: dd x dd which are two birds with no factors = which give you chicks with no factors dd + dd + dd + dd no dark factors = skyblue or light green no grey factors = blue or green but not grey or greygreen no spangle factors = you can figure that out etcExample 2: dD x dD is a single factor bird x another single factor = dd + dD + dD + DD if these were spangle birds it would mean that out of every four chicks you should get 1 normal 2 spangles 1 df spangle You figure it out by cross-multiplying. Hope this is a start. If you want the other combinations let me know. It's rather hard trying to explain it by typing - I'd prefer to handwrite it on paper while talking about it but my technology is not up to that (yet!) If you use a square divided into four smaller squares it might be easier. Oh, sex-linked varieties are more complex, as are multiple factors. And remember, these are just probabilities - not laws set in stone. It is possible to get a nestful of chicks that don't fit the pattern. Hope that my formatting does not get jiggled when posting so that you can clearly see what I've set out. A check of the preview post did scramble things but I think it is still understandable. Further to previous post: I used d and D which represent dark factorsYou may use any symbol you like. Such as ss = no spangle factors sS = single factor spangle and SS - double factor spangle. v and V for violet, g and G for grey etc Admin people: Is there a way of preserving format when posting please? I'm afraid the way it has come out in the post would be a bit daunting to someone who had not seen this done before. Jaz

I keep the sprays for when the babies are first moved out of the breeding cabinets (usually with the father birds) to entice them to feed themselves. Cannot afford to be feeding millet sprays to a large number of birds all the time. I give them semi-ripened millet sprays from my garden in season and at present they are enjoying the seed heads from amarynth on a daily basis. In the wild they would be eating whatever is seasonal so I feel it is not so important that they have exactly the same diet week in and week out (except, of course, for a good-quality seed mix). Also quality of purchased millet sprays can be extremely variable - fresh always best. Wild seeding grasses go down well but you need to collect from uncontaminated sources. I use Elenbee Gold mix for my birds - contact Elenbee for the exact proportions but it is fairly heavy on the canary, with little or no panicum.

Thank you too RIP. Something's rattling around in my brain from the dim dark past about ionic solutions so I can understand that a soluble compound will be more readily absorbed. I too await your article with great interest. Jaz

Dave, I'm told it's wood glue, aquadhere. Supposedly goes through the birds' systems without problem but that's one reason I don't use seed bells. Jaz

Thank you Kaz and RIP, yes, I would appreciate more information RIP. Looks like run with Calcium carbonate as the prime ingredient and steer clear of the plaster of paris. I too suspect most of the blocks for sale are plaster of paris. I had heard a long time ago that the preferred ingredient was a long time drying/curing but had no idea what that ingredient was. The fact that the blocks were softer and had a tendency to crumble might not be conducive to mass production for sale. Calcium phosphate - crushed bone? Solubility of calcium carbonate sounds like it is a bit tricky to form into a solid unless there is some other binding ingredient. Thank you for such a rapid reply to my post. Jaz

My post of 24th Dec also refers to opaline characteristics. Many opalines nowadays don't display the clear saddle but are brindled to a greater or lesser extent. An opaline with a clear saddle is beautiful, but they tend not to be show birds. Other opaline characteristics include the ground colour of the wings being the same as the body colour, a tendency to have windows or patchy areas in the wing pattern, and an area on the leading edge of the wing which is yellow in green series birds, white in blue series birds. An opaline which is true to variety desirably displays opalescence in the saddle and body feather but this is less and less evident in the variety over time. The bird originally posted in this thread displayed the opaline ground colour in the wings, but none of the other opaline characteristics. It had me tricked! so what your saying is that some my opalines are not opaline thanks just to make my life more complicated... lol well needed a nother chalange typing destinction i now start over yet a gain .... grrrr I hope it ends up making your life more interesting - not more complicated. Can I help with identifying your birds? Unless you get some of those tricky Dutch pieds!

I searched and found recipes for calcium blocks on the forum as I would like to make these for myself (my birds, that is!) There were differences in the ingredients and the first part of my enquiry is about the difference between using calcium carbonate and calcium phosphate in the mix. The second part of my enquiry is about the use of garden lime mentioned in one of the recipes. Does this mean unslaked lime? And what part does it play in the mix? The third part of my enquiry relates to the use of plaster of paris - I have been told it actually locks up the other ingredients so that, while the chewed up bits go through the bird, they are not actually deriving any benefit from it. Fact or fiction? My knowledge of chemistry is insufficient to solve these questions myself so I would be grateful for any advice from forum contributors. Jaz

Yes, I have a friend with pet rats who buys budgie toys for them, and I buy rat toys for my budgies! At almost any time during daylight you can hear the squeak of the wheels going round with the budgies peddling madly. The wheels have never caused a problem except for once or twice a bird getting stuck between the wheel and the wire wall (I hang the wheels off the wire up high). Doesn't injure the birds and I suspect they get hung up a lot of times when I don't see and get themselves out of trouble by themselves. I've also seen bicycle wheels in flights with short stubs of dowel at intervals around the rim. The wheel rotates as the birds fly on and off the dowel. Don't quite know the mechanism at the hub so that it can turn but I imagine ball bearings are part of the picture.

My post of 24th Dec also refers to opaline characteristics. Many opalines nowadays don't display the clear saddle but are brindled to a greater or lesser extent. An opaline with a clear saddle is beautiful, but they tend not to be show birds. Other opaline characteristics include the ground colour of the wings being the same as the body colour, a tendency to have windows or patchy areas in the wing pattern, and an area on the leading edge of the wing which is yellow in green series birds, white in blue series birds. An opaline which is true to variety desirably displays opalescence in the saddle and body feather but this is less and less evident in the variety over time. The bird originally posted in this thread displayed the opaline ground colour in the wings, but none of the other opaline characteristics. It had me tricked!

This is not so much about the beetroot, or the seed bell, but things the birds enjoy doing. Many years ago there was an advertisement which stated "the best milk comes from contented cows". Well, I believe that we get the most out of our birds when they are doing what they enjoy and part of that is destroying and playing with things - if they pick up some nutrition along the way that's a bonus. That's why I put ti-tree branches in my flights, give them cuttlebone, bark, beetroot and other fruit and veg as well as ping pong balls and those practice golf balls with the little holes in them. I also like to have some swinging perches suspended so that they sway around. Oh, and I put rat wheels in too.

I've used wood shavings, rice hulls etc but my favourite is always eucalyptus bark which the hens usually haul out of the box and/or chew into crumbs.

Ace Colonies on the Great Western Highway near Wentworthville - have always been treated well either buying or selling. Prices are reasonable and you can sometimes pick up birds from top breeders there. You always take a chance when you buy a bird from an unknown source - quarantine is even more important than usual. Many breeders prefer not to have strangers in their aviaries and this is nothing to do with being anti-social. Sadly, some breeders have been "cleaned out" after years of building up and maintaining a stud and so sometimes breeders tend to be a bit wary of people they don't know. Joining a bird club helps provide you with contacts. Ace is the longest established bird shop in the Sydney metropolitan area.

It could still be double factor if both parents were single factor pied. If so in theory you should have the usual 1:2:1 ratio of normal, single factor and double factor pieds all in the same nest. I think you missed the point here. Splat had bred a pied very like the one I pictured on this thread. It was bred from a Normal parent and a Pied parent. Splat was told it was Double Factored based purely on the fact that it had very few pied markings. So far every body who has contributed to this thread holds thats belief and labelled the Pied on this thread a Double Factored Dominant Pied. Hmm, skimming quickly through the posts I did miss the reference to Splat's bird's parentage. I have made no assumptions about what your bird actually is, just given a possibility/probability for Splat (or anyone else) producing df factor dom. pieds when normals also appear in a nest.

Cock bird would be opaline or split for opaline to produce opaline chicks (which will be hens). Hen cannot carry opaline in recessive form - hens either are or are not opaline. Ditto cinnamon and other sex-linked varieties.

Yes, the later pictures look more like cinnamon.

I provide calcium in the following ways: I provide canunda shell grit mixed in with the seed, cuttlefish occasionally, and sprinkle dolomite on the floor, boiled egg including the shell as well as providing a varied diet of grains and fresh food to my birds. I have only experienced a miniscule proportion of soft shelled eggs and these only from birds brought into my aviary from outside. No undershot jaws for years and only an occasional chick with splayed legs (none in 2008 - a couple in 2007).

Dark green, cock bird. Not sure about wing markings - ground colour green in wing says it is opaline but other characteristics of opaline not apparent (clear saddle, window in wing, yellow patch leading edge of wing). Might be worth checking description of saddleback variety.

I think she's not greygreen, but dark green - you can see a feint blue flush over the green in the body which you wouldn't see if it were greygreen. I also don't think she is cinnamon, just a feintly-marked spangle. Cinnamon doesn't so much dilute the body colour but mutes or softens it. Would have to see the real bird to be sure about the cinnamon but don't think so. If you hold the bird up so that light glances across the eye a cinnamon bird will show a tendency to the plum colour they have when they are chicks.

My birds get beetroot regularly - except in the lead up to a show! I grow my own but supplement from the fruit and veg shop. They can also mess their masks up with corn, or with charcoal.

It could still be double factor if both parents were single factor pied. If so in theory you should have the usual 1:2:1 ratio of normal, single factor and double factor pieds all in the same nest.