jaznjj

Pied? I know it's not a usual pied pattern but maybe it's a spontaneous mutation. I have had greygreen spangles with a bright yellow feather or two on the body and no known pied background.

Eight months on, what has happened with this bird with the green tail?

Neat I got this from the thread that you posted... I don't know how many times I have read on here that if it goes through to the body that means it is YF2... that quote implies that any YF mutation can extend into the body shade... and says that it is a major fault... this quote would align itself more closely with RIP's view than others... (so far KAZ and DAZ haven't replied to this thread so I am not sure what their opinion is... ) Gotta love that as an opening paragraph... There has been a proposition, which I tend to agree with, that in show schedules yellowface should be between green and blue series normals as yellow face subtracts the yellow from the body colour of greens. If you subtract the yellow from mask AND from body you get a blue bird.

In australia you only need to worry about YF M1 i.e. Creamface and GF i.e. Goldenface The only reason Australia does not have the YF M2 is beacuse the government would not allow imports into Oz. Sure birds were smuggled both ways or from Oz to Europe and then to the UK. Not too many birds came from the UK into Oz. Yes JB a df YF M1 is a white face bird. Ken Grey's book Rainbow Budgerigars and constituent varieties clearly states the differences between the yellowface mutations. If you can get a copy of this book you'll will find it a worth while investment. Both YF M2 and GF can be found in the double factored form. Below is a picture of one of my DF Goldenfaces I bred. Although it is hard to see as the quality of the picture is not the best, this bird does show some yellow on the back of the neck and there was some still in the wings and tail feathers and very slightly in the body. This is normal and will vary depending on the depth of the Sky, Cobalt, Violet or Mauve colouring as these themselves vary from bird to bird. Its called variation. All species must have variation in order to survive. If Australia has no yf2..then a bright yellow faced bird with yellow all through the wings markings, head, and body (making it a sea green colour) is what exactly? A single factor gf? So, let me see if I got this right. We (australia) have no yf2. So we only have yf1 (double factor, causing a white face bird, and single factor, which is a cream faced bird with little to no yellow in the body) and gf (double factor, which is as the picture above, and single factor, which is like a yf2, a sea green coloured bird as all the yellow goes throughout the entire body)?? Correct As I already said in my post in reply to your thread she is a double factored Goldenface. The definations of which yellowface is which is not decided by the confines of the yellow. Here is another photo to ponder over. This cock is a single factor Goldenface Cobalt Grey(sf). He shows a slightly paler yellow face because of the family line he belonged and the fact he was a Cobalt Grey he shows only a small amount of yellow suffusion As I keep mentioning variation. I had a particular family of Goldenfaces that excelled bright yellow faces. They could be the brighter yellow spoke of by Ken Gray. I had another line which I would say could well be like the YF M2 of the UK. All my GF did have one thing in common though I had managed to breed and beautifully natured line of birds many of which went on to produce the best pets some of which even went on to be good talkers. It's all in the genes. Many of the breeders I associate with refer to the English imported yellowface as creamface or just yellowface and the Aussi bright yellow-faced bird are referred to as Australian Yellowface or goldenface. Most bird you would find benched at shows in the yellowface variety will be creamface as Australian yellowface aren't usually competitive. I really like the Australian Yellowface variety and keep a very small number of them. Complications can arise when creamface and Aust yellowface are bred together and/or when other varieties and modifiers such as dilute are part of the mix - the birds can be quite difficult to identify if you do not know the breeding history. I skimmed quickly through all of the posts in this thread so may have missed some info.

Despite all the taming techniques, birds have different personalities. It sometimes only takes one bad experience to freak a bird out forever - like being grabbed unexpectedly. Maybe the grabbing thing is something you work up to - perhaps it's a natural progression from tunnelling.

Thanks Splat, good article! Jaz

Oh oops! Didn't realise Falki was in Finland. Jaz

Hi Falki, I'd be inclined to put them back where they can fly for a couple of months and get back into condition again and then try them again in a breeding cabinet. I breed show budgies and have never pulled vent feathers. It could be an inexperienced cock bird or it might be that either or both birds were at the wrong part of their fertility cycles. Cock birds also have cycles of fertility. If that were the case, a couple of months of flying together might just get their cycles in synch. Also give them a chance to get past this extreme summer heat. Jaz

Hi, just a few extra thoughts on this subject. First, don't give birds dairy products such as yoghurt. I think the reason is that they cannot handle that type of protein. I have heard one prominent vet at a lecture saying that the gut of a bird should be sterile (without any intestinal flora, good or bad). This implies that, unlike us, birds do not rely on bacteria to digest food. I don't know how accurate that assumption is and would appreciate any comments. I'd also been told that cocci is everywhere and in all birds and that it is unrealistic to try and wipe it out completely. Healthy birds may show positive for cocci but because they are otherwise strong their systems can cope with it and become more resistant. It is when birds are stressed or suffering from other ailments that an advantageous disease such cocci can be devastating.

Yes, one would hope for good information from a vet. Many common products for both birds and humans are toxic in too high a dosage. I had a friend in the bird club who was told that the dosage for a particular product (normally diluted) was very flexible and it wouldn't hurt to give a stronger dose - so he gave 1mL undiluted straight down the bird's crop with a crop needle - the bird didn't die but it went blind and lived the rest of its life walking around his aviary floor. With the Ivermectin for dogs, horses etc. the animals would need a quantity pro rata to their body weight but the concentration of the product might be different depending on how it is to be administered - or different animals might react differently to the product. In the meantime, while you are waiting for your Ivermectin, a smear of vaseline (petroleum jelly) suffocates the mite that causes the condition and doesn't ruin the birds' feathers. Remember to do legs and feet as well, particularly under any ring.

I think the problem for vets is that the Ivermectin treatment works. There are some issues to do with different doses for Ivermectin which is designed for different beasts - cows, sheep etc. and not meant for birds and I can understand that it would be easy to administer the wrong dosage if given the wrong information or a different Ivermectin product. Also, some is "spot on" and some is water soluble? At one stage a few years ago I was told that decanting and selling-on Ivermectin would attract a $50,000 fine and there was almost an underground market for the product. I'd say that many vets have become more pragmatic about it and yielded to demand. I recall years ago my approach to a vet to purchase Ivermectin was met with shock and horror and a stern little talk.

Yes, it's working for me. I have four black plastic bins which move around the vegetable patch and in this warm weather it doesn't take long for decomposition, helped along with half a bag of chook manure to top each bin off. If I get surplus matter without bin space to compost I just heap it and wait for space. I do rinse vegetables, even those I grow myself. My birds really go for greens and grains straight from the garden.

I use no chemicals in my garden other than dolomite and gypsum rarely, and light-handedly and my garden is productive and healthy. I bring in horse and chicken manure and do much composting. I use seaweed based products. I have just been recommended to visit this site http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/index.html for organic fertilisers. I did pick up a trick last year, having read that instead of spreading your compost, you leave the heap to collapse, and then plant directly into it. This year the greens planted in those sites are magnificent and requiring very little water. I like permaculture principles but am not dogmatic about it. The litter which comes out of the aviaries goes into the compost so it's a cyclic thing as the birds eat the millet heads, endive etc which grow in the compost.This has never caused a problem despite doom-sayers telling me I will cycle disease to my birds (which I guess might happen if my birds were diseased). I'd be interested to know what happens with the shell grit etc which passes through the gut of the bird when it hits the compost and garden. Also have a concern with Ivermec-type products when the faeces of treated birds becomes compost - does it kill garden worms after having travelled through birds' guts? (and yes, I know this post has drifted way off-topic) J.

Yes! Note that the dominant/recessive thing happening with the greens and blues works in the same way. Light green/blue x light green/blue = 25% light green 50% light green split blue and 25% blue.Out of your pairing above it will be possible to get a recessive blue bird but not a strong probabiity. Yes! Note that the dominant/recessive thing happening with the greens and blues works in the same way. Light green/blue x light green/blue = 25% light green 50% light green split blue and 25% blue.Out of your pairing above it will be possible to get a recessive blue bird but not a strong probabiity.The other examples you mentioned work the same way. Sex-linked inheritance is a new chapter. Violets are tricky too. Crests - well, I'm still learning! There are a few other strange ones out there too.

CL3 is L Cowely from the Campertown/Colac club and the other one as far as I know BCV rings only have 2 letters then number except for the BCV club rings. I hope this hepls JB BB09 - just a reminder. Haven't forgotten pics, have had a go, signed up for photobucket and uploaded a photo, but haven't been successful in pasting it into a post. Will try again. Jaz