renee

Hi heather, yes this does seem strange behaviour. I especially don't like that he cries a lot. You are doing the right thing by taking him to an avian vet to be looked at and get a proper diagnosis. I do have a budgie that makes strange noises, it turns out he is fine and this is just the way he communicates. The squeaking could be caused by air sac mites but that does not explains his crying. Wishing you all the very best at the vets. Please keep us updated.

Welcome to the BBC and thank you for sharing your story. Junior looks like an Opaline Grey Spangle.

Fascinating - thanks for that!

We had a peak of hot weather on Saturday, it reached 37C. Mind you 39C for Sydney is unbearable, it would be equivalent to 45C here. Glad your birds got through it okay

Thank You Nubbly for your input!

Having worked in the agricultural industry for over 15 years much of that time working with broiler chickens I can categorically say there are NO STERIODS used in broiler chicken production. Yes antibiotics are sometimes used when illness strikes BUT WITHOLDING PERIODS are strickly adhered to. Still even though so many people still believe this rubbish, chicken remains the highest consumed protein for people - amazingly hypocritical aren't we! My little rant. Fair enough, thanks for putting the record straight. So do your budgies get meat protein Nubbly and if so in what form ? (interesting how you avoided the obvious here - he,he,he)

I've got it. It is more focused on bird health than anything else and of course promotes Rob's treatments heavily. There are some minor mix ups due to it being printed in China. It is not as comprehensive as The Challenge but has some interesting info. :rofl:

By the time a hen has a fine mist on her and enters the nestbox the droplets of water would be her own body temperature. If you wanna go suck eggs, on your head be it :rofl: but I'm not

I am sure it is unorthodox .... but in hot weather I pop eggs that are due to hatch into my mouth, give them a good ole lick and pop them back ... :rofl:

Have a Happy, Happy Day and a lifetime of married bliss! :question:

Multiple alleles A multiple allelic series arises whenever a wild-type gene mutates more than once and so has more than two alternative forms. The most simple series comprises a total of three alleles; the original wild-type and two different mutant types. If we assume this basic model as being true for a series of alleles containing a blue gene and a parblue gene (a situation which is quite common across parrot species), we can examine this idea as before. Previously we looked only at the dominant wild-type B, and the recessive b. Now we can slot in the parblue allele, labelled bp in the correct genetic tradition, between the other two so that we have: B - the wild-type, normal, or green bp - the mutant parblue b - the mutant blue Although there are six genetic types of bird, I have made the assumption that the wild-type allele is fully dominant to both the parblue and blue alleles and also that these latter two alleles are co-dominant with each other. This is certainly so in the budgerigar and there is every indication that, at least in some instances, the same can be said of the blue series of genes in other parrots. Let us take a look at the consequences of this assumption. At its most simple, each allele in a multiple allelic series is completely recessive to any allele above it in the series and completely dominant to any below it in the series. But, in the present case, we are supposing that the parblue allele is only partially dominant (co-dominant) to the blue allele. This means that: * The two different genetic types of Parblue, bpbp and bpb, will also be visually different * and shows that the proposition of a multiple allelic series including only one parblue gene, co-dominant with the blue, is capable of explaining the occurrence of two distinct Parblue varieties in any species. It is probably the most simple genetic model capable of this explanation and is the theory, as we shall see later, accepted to be true for each of the Parblue varieties in the budgerigar. On a more generalised note, the names given to the different parblue and blue forms, and their appearance, will vary from species to species although every effort should be made to unify the system as much as possible. Some of the more interesting observations to be brought out from consideration of the above table are: * The six possible genetic types of bird can be mated in 21(!) different combinations. * This time there are three genetic types with identical alleles which will breed true when mated like to like: BB, bpbp, and bb. * A Green can be split for parblue (Bbp) or it can be split for blue (Bb), but it cannot be split for both. * There are two types of Parblue, the DF Parblue (bpbp) will be true breeding and the SF Parblue (bpb) will be split blue. In the budgerigar three parblue varieties have traditionally been recognised; the Goldenface or Australian Yellowface, the Yellowface Mutant 11, and the Yellowface Mutant 1 or Creamface (Aust). However, this last one is now thought to be the unusual product of two blue alleles which have mutated in different ways (See article Gene function in Yellowface budgerigars by Peter Bergman in these pages.) The single-factor, or heterozygous, forms of the first two are sometimes referred to as Seagreens. Parblue varieties have also been established in a number of other species (even where no Blues are known) and a wide range of names have been used. Attempts are being made to standardise on the name Aqua, but others you will come across include Turquoise, Marine, Seagreen, and even Pastel Blue(!). © Clive Hesford: March 2001

Well I turn my back for a second and the debate degenerates into contemplating Mad Cow disease and the moralistic musings of a potential starvation candidate So correct me if I am wrong - but if I were to feed raw meat to my budgies, probably mince meat, and only leave it available for say 10 mins in the cool of the evenings, wouldn't that nullify the risks of salmonella, e coli and the like? :question:

What do you mean GB? What could go wrong? :rofl:

Oh well, thanks for trying Finnie .... :rofl:

I am now leaning towards RAW MEAT - yet to decide on what. :rofl: I wont be cooking the *** outa the chicken thats for sure. I may just stick to the whey protein powder and egg powder. Its doing the trick anywayBut I thought the whole point of a thorough boiling was to get all the fat out and soften the bones so they could go easily through the grinder? :rofl:

What an eye opener Kaz :rofl: Thank you for posting that information I was curious about whether or not cooking altered protein so I did some research. Yes indeed! :rofl: Well it goes to reason that wild budgies when they do scavenge on meat don't wait for it to fall off the barbie, do they? :rofl: Now this opens up another avenue of possibilities .... RAW meat?!

This is the golden question. Given the pellet manufacturers use around 15-20% protein, if we are to supplement an extra source of protein, how much is optimal before they get too much and results decline or birds experience problems due to excess? And further, even if we feed a very high protein content food the amount of protein taken in per bird will vary greatly and be proportional to the amount eaten. Some birds go nuts over soft food and the like whilst others stick almost exclusively to the dry seed bowl.So Renee, to answer your question, ummm....... is LOTS an answer? :rofl: It kind of comes back to what most of us have been saying all along: keep variety in the diet to cover as many bases as possible.Excellent input Daryl. :rofl: As to your proposed study, well I am all for it BUT - NOT ON MY BUDGIES! What an eye opener Kaz :rofl: Thank you for posting that information

Well maybe then we can start budgie races as a sideline

Aha, I see you have jumped to the second part of the debate, What is the best meat protein to feed? ... no probs, I am flexible I have heard around the water cooler that some people leave out a chicken carcass for a limited time for their birds to pick at and yet others boil up chicken necks to remove fat and once all bones are soft put it all through the grinder and freeze into ice cube proportions. I am concerned that unless you buy Free Range chickens you may unwittingly be feeding your budgies the same steroids that commercial farms use to promote rapid growth in the pursuit of profits. As it stands I don't like eating chicken so chicken carcasses are out for me and as much as I love my budgies at this stage I am not prepared to go out and buy a grinder specifically for the purpose of feeding them chicken necks .... Yet other breeders I know feed their Show Budgies Meatmeal but elsewhere it has been disclosed that many times this is made from "the raw material includes , fish , sheep , goats , horses & dead animals that have died from whatever disease as they all have to be disposed of. These dead animals include all of the above plus dogs , cats , rabbits,rats, mice and birds of all descriptions and thats just to name a few." Further on the topic of Meatmeal is the following anecdotal advice "I also recall two of our top, former breeders who stopped using meatmeal because they said it made the hens aggressive. They told me they had experienced hens ripping babies apart in fits of frenzy. When they stopped the meatmeal the savagery stopped too. How true that is I cannot say..." So Meatmeal is a definite NO. NO for me. I had been considering Gourmet Mince meat and cooking it up .... However it was pointed out to me that many supermarkets still use colorants in their meat sections - sigh.

Recently there has been mention of the need to feed Show Budgies Meat Protein in order for them to develop into their true genetic potential, especially with regards to feather quality. I already give all my birds a tablespoon of Muscle XL into their soft food daily (it works out to be about 1 1/2 kilos) and I have been pleasantly surprised with the increase in size of this years chicks, in many case the fledglings are almost the same size as their Mum's when they go into the Kindie Cage. Now I have been warned not to overdose as too much of this protein can lead to bones which grow too fast and are then susceptible to easy breakages, so I am careful. But time and time again I hear of many top breeders who feed their Show Budgies meat protein and swear by it. I suppose you could call me a reluctant convert, I will do it if I absolutely HAVE TO. But before jumping in with both feet I feel the need to explore this topic in more depth. So here's some questions for Kaz, Dean and Daryl, our nutrition experts, How MUCH protein is TOO Much? And What is the Difference between MEAT protein and Whey Isolate protein?

So in this thread I am attempting to bring together a comprehensive guide of the order of dominance of a number of varieties which occur on the same allele. For example, recently in the Great Yellow Face Symposium I learnt that on a certain place on the DNA sequence of a budgerigar the following varieties have an order of dominance from most to least, lets call that place A. A. Normal Green, Golden Face, Yellow Face Mutant I, Yellow Face Mutant II and then Normal Blue. And from another intriguing thread dedicated to Dilutes I learnt that on another place of the DNA sequence of a budgerigar the following varieties have an order of dominance from most to least, lets call that place B. B. Greywing, Clearwing and then Dilute. My question, specifically to our Genetic Gurus Nubbly, RIP and Finnie (but any one else please feel free to jump in) is- Are there any OTHER examples of where multiple varieties occur together and an order of dominance is observed?

You are correct, everywhere else but WA you can only enter your own bred birds into a show. BUT that doesn't need to stop you from gathering up some birds and getting other members to appraise them in an unofficial way. Who knows you may hit it off with a more experienced member who will offer to come to your place and help you out. You need a mentor, someone on the ground that is more experienced than you who will guide you. Here is the West a few of us Novices sing the praises of Gary Armstrong precisely because in those early stages he has gone out of his way to help us out - not to mention he is a top bloke. Cec Gearing is another who has always been very supportive. Who do you have?

Your club members would help you even more if you found the time to take your birds along to show them. Many people seem to think that showing birds is all about winning prizes, they are mistaken. In the early years I took my birds along to be assessed (good points/bad points) and when I was unsure about a bird's variety. It is at shows that you build valuable relationships with other "budgie nuts" and hear about their experiences. I will give you an example: Just last week I took what was in my eyes a beautiful Dark Green UBC (unbroken cap: 2 month old chick) to the MBC Show. He is a sibling to the one that took out Best UBC at the SWBC Show and featured in the photos I took in the Best In Show thread. He was judged to be indeed a beautiful chick BUT it was pointed out that it had "shark fins", ie his flights were bunched below its shoulder. THIS is an undesirable fault. Now no one would have picked it the photos I took and I myself was unaware of it. THAT is why we SHOW birds! Now I know this I will keep an eye on it as it develops and see whether this fault corrects itself or not. So if you are indeed a beginner Show Budgie Breeder eager to learn and progress in this endeavor then you need to go to shows.

okay Well I will come right out and say that you cannot ask anyone to advise you on culling anymore than you can expect anyone to do your pairings for you. For one thing photos can be very misleading. For another you may decide to keep an old hen because you intend to use her as a foster or another small cock bird because he consistently throws much better than himself. Only YOU know your birds and their history with regards to health and breeding habits. Perhaps this is a round-about way of generating interest in your birds ahead of sales, and if that is the case - well good luck to you.