renee

I was hoping some of the more observant members can help me out identifying the visual stages in eggs from newly lain to fertile. I'll start it off - 1. A newly lain egg is clear with a discernible air bubble at one end 2. Once the hen starts incubating ..... How many hours until changes can be observed? What are those changes? How long till you see the beating heart?

Well said Pride. Yes it is a sorry state of affairs when I find myself getting excited about an approaching 50% fertility in one of the varieties .... But I can't help thinking I only have myself to blame for not checking those vent feathers. Interestingly I did check all hens last week and except for 2 they were as bald as the proverbial egg.

I did a proper egg count today and reassessed a couple of nests (revising the number of fertile eggs down) and also made some more pairing changes. ALBINOS - 6 pairings: 3 split Grey / 3 DF Albinos wed 25th 19 eggs / 5 Fertile tue 30th 27 eggs / 2 Fertile At this stage I am a bit disappointed but to be fair in 3 of the nests the hens only started laying last week and the fertile eggs that are beginning to show (in 2 nests) are in large 6+eggs nests. So I remain hopeful. BLUE NORMALS - 4 pairings wed 25th 19 eggs / 8 Fertile tue 30th 24 eggs / 11 Fertile This is a bit more like it! DOMINANT PIED BLUE - 2 pairings wed 25th 6 eggs tue 30th 13 eggs / 4 Fertile Another wait and see scenario. DOMINANT PIED GREEN - 4 pairings: 2 Greygreen / 2 Green Split Blue wed 25th 6 eggs / 1 Fertile tue 30th 12 eggs / 4 Fertile Yet Another wait and see scenario. DOUBLE FACTOR WHITE - 3 pairings wed 25th 5 eggs tue 30th 14 eggs / 1 Fertile This is not good. I have a couple of hens on doxy right now so they can be swapped if required in about 10 days time. In the meantime I will just removed the clear eggs and keep my fingers crossed. DOUBLE FACTOR YELLOW - 4 pairings wed 25th 6 eggs / 1 Fertile tue 30th 16 eggs / 3 Fertile 1 Fertile nest and 3 nests with 3 eggs ... I am hoping to see fertile eggs soon. GREEN NORMALS - 4 pairings: 3 DF Green/ 1 Green Split Blue wed 25th 5 eggs 1 nest Clear? tue 30th 16 eggs / 2 Fertile Again my fingers are crossed. LUTINOS - 2 pairings: 1 Split Green / 1 DF Lutino wed 25th 8 eggs / 1 Fertile tue 30th 9 eggs / 4 Fertile I just can't seem to get excited about my Lutes .... OPALINES - 2 pairings: Green Spangle / Split Grey Blue tue 30th new nests RECESSIVE PIEDS - 6 pairings: 3 Splits / 3 DF RP wed 25th 14 eggs / 4 Fertile tue 30th 18 eggs / 3 Fertile A nest I thought was full of fertile eggs now look totally addled .... I have grave doubts about my top pairings .... I get a migraine every time I think of it all and have decided to give these guys 10 days before I make definitive changes. New Pairings- So in effect I pulled a Lute/Lute pairing and put down a big Green Normal boy to the feral Light Green Opaline Spange. I will use the cocks split Opaline progeny towards improving my Lutes next year, the Normal hens in my Green line and the Green Spangles towards my DF Yellow line. Well. that's the plan! Magic, my lovely Sky Dommie Pied cock and his Cobalt hen are also in the Holding cages now (I have separated cocks and hens) and I put a lovely Sky Violet split Opaline cock down to a Normal Grey hen. This is a purely physical pairing, ie. based on visual features; not with any particular breeding plan in place. I suppose if they click their progeny will end up in the Dommie Pied line as I prefer to cross Double Factor Greys into my Albino line. I had considered putting Magic's hen to another back-up Blue boy (I have a couple) but the Sky boy I favoured for her is not in prime condition. I may do that down the track.

Well that's what I thought Splat, maiden cock birds!!! But it ain't so in this case - Of the maidens only 12 are first-timer cocks and even then only 7 are 2011 (magenta rung) 12 months old. Of those 7, 4 have produced fertile eggs. .... so it ain't those cock birds really. No, what I was told is that the maiden hens can be pretty clueless and require a bit of patience too.

Well I was feeling pretty despondent today about all the clear eggs. This is the first year that I have faced this problem on this scale. So I had a chat with a couple of experienced breeders whose opinions I respect and that has put things in perspective. The crux of the matter is that of the 74 birds I have down breeding, 33 are maiden cock and hens - almost 50%. With the exception of 2 nests the newbies are with an experienced mate which I had hoped would mitigate this, but it appears that that is not always the case. So basically I am not going to stress any more and just go chucking the clear ones until these newbies get the hang of things.

We had a problem with a hawk so my hubby gave him steak. Against the odds he moved on. You could also try wrapping your aviary in a dark coloured shade cloth.

I spoke too soon, there is still one .... this is what happens when you don't take notes Fertile egg count is up to 21 but technically that is really 17 as I am pretty certain that 4 are addled. Interestingly they are in nests where the cock birds do not visit. More than any other year I have cock birds in the nest box with hens, last count 13!!! The egg count as of today is 131. However, still to be confirmed but I think 24 are clear and come from 7 nests of which 3 are magenta rung/ maiden cock birds. 12 nests are still with 2 eggs. I've already decided to pull Magic tomorrow and put another pair down: a lovely Light Green Spangle hen I got off Gary Armstrong recently and a big Green boy. I had thought of putting the hen to someone else but they physically compliment each other and have bonded and she is so fricken feral I need to put her down before she maims any of the other hens. She is the kind of hen that if I introduce her to someone she doesn't fancy she'll snap his head of in an instant .... a risk I am not prepared to take. I bet she'll be a finger chewer as well. Magic's hen will go into a holding cage for a few days. I was going to put her to Sky boy I have in the holding cage but may instead put her to my magenta rung Recessive Pied boy. this boy His hen, @##$$%%$%!!!, insists on laying an egg and then carefully rolling out of the nest box .... and frankly he is too good a bird to mess around with a tricky hen. Medusa is on 2 eggs of her own and a falsie. The 2 eggs I fostered are clear and I have a sinking feeling that the 2 she's on are also clear as well but I won't make a decision about this pairing till towards the end of the week. My lovely Green hen is also on 2 eggs and I also think they are clear but ditto as above. The other "sweet talker", a tailless Green boy (lovely blow) is with a Recessive Pied hen and she too is on 2 eggs that I suspect are clear as well.

Read this Renee http://forums.budgie...us&fromsearch=1 Thank you Kaz. I always give my breeders Iodine in the water but I haven't tried putting it on the preening gland so I'll give it a go as of next week and see what happens.

Just done another quick egg check and ..... drumroll .... No more empty nests! Fertility is improving as more fertile eggs begin to show but no stats as I didn't take any notes today. My time has been consumed with completing a full seed change of all seed hoppers with a 50:50 mix of Golden Cob Supreme Budgie Mix and the seed combo I have been using to date. The Golden Cob seed boasts added Vitamins A, D3 & E as well as Vegetable Oil? Interesting as it used to be Cod Liver Oil. But doesn't exactly say in what quantities ... In any case this does mean that I will no longer be giving the breeders Soluvet (vitamin supplement) in their water as I do believe that too much of anything is not a good idea. Likewise today I began adding the Muscle XL powder to the SoftFood and as it contains a lot of amino acids I will be scrutinising all water supplements (such as Tracemin or Moulting Aid) before adding. Now ideally I would have begun with the Golden Cob seed and Muscle XL when I put the budgies in the holding cages or by the very least a fortnight ago when they went into the Breeder Cabinets .... but this was not logistically possible. C'est la vie.

It's an indicator of a hormonal imbalance and means that his fertility has been affected. Basically his breeding days are over ...... unless someone knows how to rectify this???? Come Monday I will once again check the eggs his hen is on and then give her one of my Back-up cock birds to bond with in a holding cage for a few days before putting them down again.

Plastic Guinea Pig drinkers, budgie head hight - changed every few days.

The Definitive Meat Protein Debate http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=27646&st=0&p=328838&hl=definitive&fromsearch=1entry328838

Thank you Pride. Although I am already thinking of making a few changes ... as you do. Magic, my Sky Dommie Pied boy has developed a brown cere ... not good at all. His nubile cobalt hen is sitting on 4 eggs but I reckon they're clear. Pity as he was a sure thing .... a rarity in BudgieLand. 2 of my Grey Spangle hens have gone rapidly out of condition to the point that I will be waiting for them to stop laying and check for fertility before moving the eggs, or chicks - depending on circumstances. And then there are some pairings I am having second doubts about. But I will not be making any changes till next Monday.

Ellie you have done the right thing by taking her to the vet. The best you can do is to keep her warm and follow the vet's instructions. Best of Luck and let us know how she does.

Well Splat, ever the optimist, I am hoping for some more fertile eggs - a particularly buff Violet cock has managed to fill 4 out of 6 eggs before his bikini wax but no new ones showed up today .... Only 2 nests with No eggs now and 15 nests with 1-2 eggs, so it is still early days.

Many apologies for yesterday's flawed Egg Count per Variety. Here is the revised update. However, I should add that after GB posted the picture of an addled egg in her thread I suspect I have 3 of those

Thank you Pride. I am pretty certain I have at least 2 nests of clear eggs but it's early days and I am not going to do anything definitive till next Monday. The cock birds certainly haven't forgiven me for yesterday and shuffle to the back of the cabinets and regard me with suspicion and surly looks

Well I've decided to split up the results per Variety to gauge the real progress of my breeding season so far, SO (in alphabetical order) ALBINOS - 6 pairings: 3 split Grey / 3 DF Albinos 12 eggs / 3 Fertile BLUE NORMALS - 3 pairings 11 eggs / 5 Fertile DOMINANT PIED GREEN - 4 pairings: 2 Greygreen / 2 Green Split Blue 5 eggs / 1 Fertile 2 nests No eggs DOMINANT PIED BLUE - 3 pairings 8 eggs DOUBLE FACTOR WHITE - 3 pairings 4 eggs 1 nest No eggs DOUBLE FACTOR YELLOW - 4 pairings 2 eggs 3 nests No eggs GREEN NORMALS - 3 pairings 3 eggs 1 nest No eggs LUTINOS - 3 pairings: 1 Split Green / 2 DF Lutino 7 eggs / 1 Fertile 1 nest No eggs RECESSIVE PIEDS - 6 pairings: 4 Splits / 2 DF RP 11 eggs / 4 Fertile 2 nests No eggs agh .... this isn't working, I'm missing 6 nests (sigh) .... will have to go back and double check and then edit again okay it turns out I just can't add up LOL still missing one ... I reckon it's a Green pair

Good photos Squeak_Crumble!!! and Nice Birds:) Now that's exactly why I started my Green Normals Line too ... only I have been told that Lutes benefit most from crosses with Dark Greens and Olives as it enhances the buttercup yellow colour.

Well I am so fricken pissed off with myself. I was having a close look at Medusa's super Recessive Pied boy and to my horror he looked a bit shaggy under the tail. I caught him up and sure as he was decidedly bushy - so promptly gave him a Brazilian .... and then checked on Medusa - same story. At this point I felt decidedly crook. I am SURE I plucked everyone's bum feathers 3 weeks ago or so between juding them in classes/variety and popping each bird in a Holding Cage. So then I had the thankless task of catching every cock bird and removing all vent feathers. There were so many bloody budgie feathers you could fill an eiderdown. It would appear that some birds have had their feathers removed recently, ie. when I popped them into the Breeding Cabinets ... but most of them hadn't, including all my top pairings. Grrrrr. Didn't know budgies grew their feathers back so quickly .... or else - perish the thought - I got so caught up in admiring my birds I forgot ...... Naaaaaah. So now I am facing the very real prospect of a lot of clear eggs. The next week will be interesting. I am trying very hard to find a silver lining and all I can come up with is at least I noticed now and not later on.

Just another quick egg count update 10 nests no eggs 6 nests with fertile eggs (mainly showing up in nests of 4 or more eggs) The rest with 1-3 eggs

oh Splat I do hope you have turned the corner and can now get on with the breeding season you deserve! Best of Luck with the 07 cock bird !!! I have 2 I am hoping to get chickies out as well .... Fingers Crossed

I am now in week 2 of my breeding season and so far so good. The hen to my super Albino spent 24 hours in the hospital cage and I don't know whether it was the Spark I gave her to the crop or the warmth but she was busting to get out so she is currently in a separate cage looking no worse for wear. I am half expecting her to drop dead from internal infection ... but so far she shows no sign of discomfort at all. To be on the safe side I popped some doxy into her water. Medusa seems to have settled down in the past few days and no longer bolts out of the nest box every time I tap it. Actually she is very lucky in her partner who I have observed to be very supportive of her and gives her loads of encouragement every time she lays an egg. Currently she is on 2 false ones and today I will foster another when she lays it. Depending how she goes I am entertaining the thought of giving her a 2 day old chick from a lesser nest to see if she can get the hang of it - under strict supervision, of course. Dunno, just a thought. I have come to the conclusion that she did not have a very good introduction to motherhood last year and I am wondering whether I can turn that around for her. Probably early next week I will be introducing a protein powder into the Soft Food mix. The product I have used since 2008 is Kohnke's Own Muscle XL. I buy it in 2 kilo tubs. it is a high protein whey isolates with Vitamin E, organic sufur and zinc and marketed as a Muscle Amino Acid supplement for horses. The full blurb is as follows: Muscle XL is based on highly digestable whey isolates to provide the branched chain amino acids leucine, isoleucine, and valine, as well as high levels of glutamine, lysine, threonine, and additional amino acids. The addition of Vitamin E assistsantioxidant protection of muscle tissues during exercise, and an organic source of sulfur and chelated zinc corrects low or inadequate levels in the diet to provide specific nutrients for muscle protein synthesis. Ech KILO contains: Whey isolates 947.5g/kg; Vitamin E (as absorbate) 8,333 IU; Methylsulphonylmethane 8.3g, Zinc ( as proteinate) 3.3g; Vanilla milk flavoring. All the breeders are eating the soft food now and I want to up the protein levels ahead of when the chickies start to hatch out. And very soon I'll be introducing the Colden Cob seed .... Why would you do that with your birds already down? I hear you ask. Well as it happens I've always used the Golden Cob brand during breeding but the Club didn't have a meeting last month so I couldn't get any. Of course I don't want to induce a moult so I'll be mixing it 50:50 with what they have now.

Will do

I use Quiko liquid calcium. I tried Calcivet for a while, but then I went back to the Quiko, because I didn't care for the sugar either. Not sure if Quiko is a brand that's available in Australia, though. Well Finnie I did not find Quiko but my internet search did bring up the following: Aristopet Avi-Cal 500 ml Avi- Cal 500 ml Highly absorbable liquid calicum and vitamin D3 supplement for caged and aviary birds. Helps prevent soft shelled eggs and rickets. Use in egg bound birds. Just add to their food or water On sale for $16.40 at Sharlees Stockfeeds & Pet Supplies http://sharlee.com.au I ordered 2 and paid just over $40 including delivery Now THAT is a bargain !!!