falki

I don't know about recessive pieds, but dutch pieds have white down and the fenotype can be just like a normal budgie, appearing to be no pied at all. They usually still have pink feet. But later on you'll see, if the chick develops iris rings or not. Dutch pied would have iris rings and also blue/normal cere compared to recessive pied pink. It's a rare variety this dutch pied, but you never know! If somebody has more experience on dutch pieds, please correct, but I think your hen also has those grizzled markings in her wings, characteristic to dutch pieds and recessive pieds only and the hen is not a recessive pied is she? But these are only guesses!

Now most likely confirmed as a rare variety dutch pied. He's got 2 fertile eggs this far with a grey green opaline hen split recessive pied, so we could be expecting even DEC to come out this pairing, if my cock also carries resessive gene. Though only with 12,5% probability. The reason, so I have been now told by pied experts, why it isn't possible for him to be an australian pied, is the grizzle markings in the wings, which iare something only recessive or dutch pieds can have. Nevertheless, recessive pieds never have iris rings and dutch pieds always have iris rings. Also the "frosted" kind colouring this cock has, would indicate towards a dutch pied. So, it'll be interesting next few weeks to see what comes out of the box. First egg is due sometime onwards 26th of Feb.

That's what I've been thinking too... it's just that the father of thic clutch has earlier produces a dilute or something that looks a lot like one and if the father is a split dilute and not a split greywing, the chicks would have to be clearwings. I guess what I'm looking for as an answer is, that can a clearwing be this heavily marked or is the only option in cases like this a full body colour greywing?

I wish to get some answers to my dilemma... I had this mating last summer and another one for the same couple right after. The first clutch included the chick above who nowadays looks like this (she's also a spangle, violet), sorry I don't have a photo from front, she's at my friend, but I can assure you the colour is quite as dense front as at her rump: The second clutch included another violet chick who at first had quite a diluted body colour and grey wings, he looked like this at 1 month old: And now, at 5 moths: So my question is, are they badly marked clearwings or full body colour greywings? Or is it impossible to tell? And as I have ready from all over the internet single factor clearwings (clearwing / dilute) would actually have more suffusion and only double factor clearwings (two clearwing alleels) would have the bright white / yellow wings? These chicks are after two visually normal parents, most likely a split clearwing hen and split dilute cock.

I decided to have the green pied FBC hen for the pairing. Now that the hen is here it was easy to compare her to her greywing brother, who lives here already. Here's the hen, recessive pied greygreen fbc greywing opaline And her full brother: recessive pied grey YF type II greywing opaline I'm hoping to mate them after another couple has finished nesting. I'm only breeding in a tiny scale So I have max. one breeding at a time...

So it's the latter picture of the chick you cannot see? I try again: Can you see it now? Anyway, he's got iris rings and colour in the lower stomac, markings are actually not brown, but typically to recessive pieds something only nearly black. First I thought my cock was a recessive pied, as I didn't notice any iris rings on him. This was maybe 1,5 years ago, when I suddenly realized he actually has iris rings. He's 4 years old atm. I think it was the head and the feathers that where in the way of seeing his eyes properly and the fact that he's very much like a tyical rec pied what comes to his appearances in other aspects so I wasn't really even looking for any iris rings.. But if they'd both be just dominant pieds, what's with the ceres then? SF dominant pied cock has a blue cere and DF dominant pieds have it lilac. And both of these, the father and the son have pink ceres and iris rings? That's why I was thinking of a combination of those two mutations...

I have had this pied cock for several years now, I tried to breed him couple of times to a show type skyblue opaline hen, but the mating never succeeded. Nevertheless I was keen to know something about his appearances so my only choice was to breed him to a cinnamon opaline dominant pied hen, as at that time I had no other females ols enough etc. The result is the yellow chick below. The case is, that he's got clear iris rings and a pink cere, very few markings and colour mostly in the rump and lower stomach - and so does his only offspring. The cock in question is the one in the front And his only chick few months old And a year old in his new home So now I finally managed to get a new hen, somewhat more suitable for him (not pied) and will try to breed again. This time the hen is a grey green opaline. But what do you think this far? I might have posted about him before, but I couldn't find the thread. You think he might be just a combination of dominant and recessive pied?

So, first about the cock. Here's another thread about him http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=27982 where most of the people ended up telling me he is a clearwing, so that's why this conclusion. Also. his sister produced a clearwing chick with a male carrying the dilute gene here's a thread about the chick: http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=29294 So, I'm not 100% sure, that he is a clearwing, might just be a very poorly marked spangle. Also, I'm not sure about the FBC's they might also just be greywings. But about the cinnamon, here's a better picture which should not reveal any cinnamon like markings, also the cheeck patches aren't as diluted as a normal greywing should have them. But, as I said, I'm not sure what the mutation is in either case.

I've been planning to breed my skyblue clearwing spangle cock and have two choice for the hen-to-be. Both hens are from the same combination autumn 2009 (greygreen split greywing hen x violet cobalt FBC-greywing Goldeface cock). So my plan would be to produce possible clearwings, incase the hens are carriers or FBC-greywings if the hens are normal greywings. I'd also like to have greens and greys (clearwings) and that's why I've been thinking about the greygreen hen, inspite her having also resessive pied gene as well as the goldenface. So what do you think? Any advice? I don't have much more options as there are no clearwings to come by here. So I have to think about some other way to produce clearwings, even though I've heard these combinations are not the best to bring out the clearwing gene. My blue cock's in the front: 1. option: Cobalt Opaline greywing OR FBC 2. Grey green Opaline resessive pied Goldenface greywing or FBC

Thank you Nubbly5! The bottom picture cock in my last post is a spangle. The wing markings are very faint to be exactly sure, but he has the typical white/blue opalescence on his rump to indicate spangle. Also I'm quite sure, that all the chicks are spangles, at least all the normal coloured. However chick number 5, greywing/clearwing has nearly no markings at all compared to her siblings. She's still in the nest with one of her brothers, so I'll take a picture of them two, for you to see the difference. Other chicks have actually quite nice spangle markings, black and strong, so you can easily tell the odd one. Here's a bad picture without flash of that skyblue spangle, next to a reseccive pied skyblue. Their bodycolours are normal, not diluted in the least. Bigger picture Bigger picture Here's the picture of the two youngest chicks And in case you need to see it bigger, click here.

Just trying to get to know the variety, as I think I'm having a clearwing baby in the nest at the moment. She's now about 4 weeks old and 3 of her siblings got out this week. My intention of the paring in first place, was to produce violets, as both the parents are violets. The hen, most likely a cobalt violet, was bought together with a skyblue spangle, also possibly a clearwing cock, same age, same shop. The cock of the pairing, is a skyblue violet spangle and he might have the dilute gene as split, his father was a greywing. This violet pair produced 5 chicks, all of them which seem to be spangles, some of them violets and - or so I first thought - a greywing. But this "greywing" has very faint wingmarkings and the bodycolour just the same density as the eldest chick, who seems to have the same colour as the mother, only different shade of it. I have been also wondering, why in this clutch it seems, that some of the chicks body colours are rather dull or faded, but the wingmarkings very nice, strong spangle ones? "Maybe CW" hen, chick number 5, on the left, and her brothers number 2 and 1, accidentally taken with flash. Bigger image From lef to right, mother, father and chick number 2 (same as above front, without flash..) Bigger image Chick number one with his mother, see the difference in colour between them, the colour is the same basically, only the shade is different. Bigger image The possible CW chick younger, number 5 she is. Bigger image And a picture of her uncle, that is, the mothers possible brother, on the right.

Thank you for your reply Neville, great info once again. He's a very handsome young fella and I intend to breed him later this year, my aim is to get either FBC greywings if paired to a greywing hen or some clearwings, FBC's and greywings if I find an FBC greywing hen to pair him to. Thanks for all you replies!

A bigger picture can be seen here. And another one.

I wonder if the one on the right could be a skyblue clearwing? I have never seen one and evern rarely on photos, so I could use some help... Here he's with a skyblue violet spangle Taken without flash Front

Dutch pied has the markings on the lower half, not top. My bird is indeed like a copy of a dutch pied, but I have never ever seen more than one photo of a dutch pied, that one old too, so I really doubt I could have one, here in Finland...?? :fear What is sad, is that I haven't been able to have any babies from him, only two empty rounds, tho with a same hen. He's now on a new try round after a years pause with a new, eager and experienced hen, so we will see. Dutch pied is a dominant gene, so this could finally give away who he really is.

Yes, I'm from Finland and the ring colour red is 2006 in A.C. Hughes (UK) rings. He came to me march 2008 and was bought in a pet shop summer 2007 when he was told to be about 6 months old. I tought about that split thing happening between a dom pied and a rec pied and sorry again calling a dominant pied "australian" before, it is called such here :fear

I have an opinion to be asked, thank you in beforehand! :fear So I have these two birds. First one always I supposed to be a recessive pied, but just lately I found out, he has an iris ring. He was already 2 years old when he came to me (ring in his leg is for year 2006) so if he developed the iris ring only just lately, that's quite old, or then I just haven't noticed it, him having so typical recessive pied looks. Also the pink cere is kind of misleading, being so pink. What pied is he? Just weird australian pied? EDIT: So I really just hadn't noticed it, even in those 2 years old pics he already has that iris ring. Funny really I have not seen it before! Then I have this spangle, I think is just a badly marked one. Then I thought I have no experience on clearwings, could he match?? He looks messy because I had been treating him with paraffine oil for the mites in his beak and legs.

Oh well, I guess it might have been that all those ino chick's pictures I was looking at were possible ino opalines... So my mistake. Really just recently started paying attention to this white/grey down thing and all I know, it's not just opalines trait.

So I've found out that not only opalines but also greywings and inos for example have white fluff. Grey fluff goes hand in hand with normal, spangle and dominant pied, at least, but only when they're not mixed with some other (above mentioned) mutation. It's not totally impossible that the father of this clutch had the opaline gene though, it's just that he's mother didn't have it and his father has had 11 chicks with no opalines amongst them - but we'll see! I'd really love some opaline spangles!

I thought it did but in this case the father hasn't had opaline in it's line for generations, but it can happen though, that he is split opaline even if had been hidden for years. So I guess then spangle opalines should not be a rarity in this clutch either, as both the parents carry the opaline gene, wonderful!

My dominant pied cinnamon opaline split greywing hen and a skyblue violet spangle split greywing (and other stuff) cock have had a clutch of five. I'm taking it the first two are pieds, second one (white baby in the middle) seems to be blue and what would you say maybe a greywing? Since there still not much colour on him anywhere...? I know some of you are really experts in telling the exact colour in a very early stage, any ideas in this case? Bigger big can be seen here. Here are the parents:

Cinnamon opaline is clear, and opaline markings are quite bad I have to admit. Hopefully they get better after the moult. I think after the first moult the real body colour could come out better too. His mother was very yellow too, when she came to me 2 months old and the feathering has gotten a lot darker since. But I'll post you new pics later on when he can properly stand, from front and behind, to see if I can spot any body colour anywhere.

I would love a clearbody but I'm afraid he's not. I stated above that the parents are a dominant pied cinnamon opaline split greywing hen and a normal greygreen split cinnamon and opaline cock. This chick looks like a boy, cannot be TCB if the father is not split and hen visual and then isn't, as she's dominant pied. Here's the father And the hen about 6 months old, this picture was taken in June 2008. Flash makes the chest look very bright green as in normal light it's more olive or grey green. The first picture of the chick is taken without flash.

I had thic chick from a cinnamon-opaline dominan pied olive green split greywing hen and a greygreen normal split cinnamon and opaline cock. And the chick looks like this, he's now 24 days old I can't see any body colour anywhere. I was wondering if he could be a cinnamon greywing, thus l"double diluted" by the cinnamon and the grewing gene? What do you think? By clicking the link beside the picture, you'll get to see a bigger picture, which I recommend. link link link link