Ravengypsy

I talked to someone here in the US who supposedly had some not long ago until his stock was destroyed. He got them from a breeder in NY who 'retired' and no longer breeds birds. I am wondering if/where it may re-appear again if this is infact true. What I'm curious about is from what type of birds did it originate from?

sue, I would go ahead and pair them up.. a good match if you are wanting inos and lacewings. A lacewing is an Ino + Cinnamon. All hens will be lacewing, all cocks will be ino split for lacewing. If hen is split for blue then you'll get 50% chance of each blue or yellow series, if not then all will be lutino (yellow) split for blue.

hahaha I love that!! I hadn't thought of putting a wheel in, didn't think they'd do anything with it.. hahaha.. Might have to put one in the aviary and let them have a go.

I have one that I purchased from Ebay on the wall in my bird room, but it's not up to date... there aren't any spangles for example... I wonder if the one in Canada is more up to date?

they are so cute! thanks for the pictures

what Elly said

without more pictures my first guess was the same as Kaz... but i'm withholding opinion until I see the chick photos... and find out about the blue under the wing or near the vent. as these will confirm it.

but often sometimes the YF2 or GF can be mistaken for a green.. including on some chicks, pictures of the green chicks from the front would help ... otherwise I agree... most likely a green split to blue and masking yellowface

is there blue under the wings of the dad? I'm curious :fear

see if this helps any... you should be able to tell all 4 of them them apart visually. single factor YF2: (lemon yellow face with even body color in a teal-ish color) YF2 sky double factor YF2: (note how the yellow/green color is not even in the body) YF2 sky single factor GF: (a golden yellow face with an evenly colored green-tinted body, usually blue under the wings and vent) GF Cobalt double factor GF: (golden yellow face with the green at the top of the body and blue at the bottom, not evenly distributed) GF Cobalt ...and just for refrence here is the YF1 (single factor): YF1 Cobalt also note that the sky is more teal in color whereas the cobalt would be more green in color... you'd be surprised how easily it can be to misidentify a single factor cobalt GF from a normal green.... the example shown of which is one of my birds which is in fact a cobalt GF but looks at first like a green type.

they are genetically seperate mutations but act similiar in how they work as far as distribution of the yellow coloring, the intensity of the yellow is different though depending on YF2 or GF. If you pair a (SF) YF2 x (SF) GF = the goldenface is dominant to the YF2, so you'd have genetically: 25% YF2 (SF) 25% GF (SF) 25% YF2 (SF) GF (SF) {looks like a GF single factor} 25% normals If you pair a (DF) YF2 x (DF) GF = all chicks would be YF2 (SF) GF (SF) and look visually like a GF single factor. If you pair a (DF) YF2 x (SF) GF = 50% YF2 (SF) 50% YF2 (SF) GF (SF) Now lets try something fun, a (SF) YF2 x (SF) YF2 (SF) GF = YF2 (DF) YF2 (SF) YF2 (DF) GF (SF) YF2 (SF) GF (SF) GF (SF) Normals .... as you can see they are seperate mutations, and could come up with some interesting looks... this works similair to how the German Fallow and English Fallow are similair in apperance and inheritance but genetically seperate mutations.

wonder what would happen if you had an ino with brownwing...... would you get a 'lacewing' in looks as well? and if so, would this cause the 'normals' issue since brownwing is recessive rather than sex-linked. I'd be interested to find out. I may need to aquire an Albino hen to pair with my brownwing cock next season and see what happens in a few generations.

I have photos of the single factor versus the double factors on the color guide so you can compare between them... the YF2 double factor vs single factor has more to do with how it spreads through the body feathers not the darkness of the yellow involved. The lighter yellows are generally YF2 and the darker yellows are generally GF in my experience, I'm not sure if that's what your meaning by 'lighter'?

correct... the YF2 and GF do not turn into white faces in double factor form... but it does change the "look" of how the yellow bleeds. Which gives a very similiar effect, by reducing the amount of yellow produced but whereas the YF1 double factor removes the yellow completely, the YF2 and GF double factors only remove the yellow partially (from the lower areas of the body) where the single factor would have been evenly spread throughout the body. I do have some YF2's and GF's in my breeding and found the information provided by the research I did to match with my own experiences with them. Was very enlightening to learn, and explains why some people consider the yellowface genetics to be 'complex'.

it does Elly, in the YF type 1

Good genetic articles on the parblue mutations (YF1, YF2 & GF)... http://www.bestofbreeds.net/al-nasser/article12.htm http://homepage.ntlworld.com/k_jones/clwyd/gray.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/c...d/parblu04.html http://birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolour/peter/yface01.html But here is the summary of the combined articles: Yellowface Mutant 1 The Yellowface type 1 variety visually is a pale lemon yellow that replaces the normally white areas of a blue budgerigar and does not mix with the body color. Although a green can carry this gene, it is only visually seen in the blue series. This includes albino (creamino), dark eyed clear, grey and violets in all their three depths of shades. There are currently two schools of thought on this mutation genetics/inheritance. Perhaps eventually we’ll know with certainty which form is correct. The currently established thought is that this is a mutation that has a single factor (byf1b) which visually produces a yellow face, and double factor form (byf1byf1) which visually produces a white face blue that is separate than the normal “true” white face blue variety (bb). A new viewpoint takes this a step further that the yellowface is a representation of a combination of two types of blue genes. With this line of thinking the two types of blue (b1b1 and b2b2) when paired with itself is a white faced blue, but when combined (b1b2) produces the visually recognized yellowface variety. Yellowface Mutant 2 The yellowface type 2 mutation is dominant in nature and comes in a single factor and double factor form. In the single factor version you find the same yellow face with an evenly colored sea-green blue body color. The double factor form is a pale lemon yellow that replaces the white areas of the blue series and changes the upper portion of the body color a blue-green color while the bottom areas of the bird remain blue in color. The spread of the yellow into the body color becomes more progressive with each successive molting. Goldenface The goldenface works like that of the yellowface mutant 2, except it is a separate mutation genetically. There is however a difference in the color of the yellow, where the goldenface is described as a rich golden buttercup yellow instead of it’s paler cousin. In a single factor form it creates an even deep sea-green color. In the double factor form the head is golden and the yellow bleeds into the upper portion of the body color creating a dark blue-green while the lower portions retain the blue coloring. The spread of the yellow into the body color becomes more progressive with each successive molting.

thanks, I have 3 of the 4 already show cage trained without much issue... the 4th one is being stubborn, I might try that car trick :wine

an overseas voice to be added to Kaz (whom I agree with!)... although some vets say to use pellets/crumble, most breeders in the US also use seed diets, myself included. I do admit to having all-natural pellets (as if pellets could be called natural.. :hap: ) in a small dish in the aviary only, but I can honestly say that most of the birds ignore it anyways or just play with it. Best thing you can do is switch them to seed diet with fresh veggies/fruit daily. Better for their health, better vitamins and nutrients.. and truely natural to the birds eatting in the wild. Kaz is spot on.

I've used corn on cob for my junior cage and in the aviary... we can also get it frozen on cob in raw form.. mine LOVE it. I didn't know how long to keep it out though, so I removed daily... good to know I can keep it in for a few days.

I don't have niger in my mix, Daz... what nutrients does it add to the canary/millet/oat groat mix? As I may add it if it's of additional benefit.

wheat isn't an issue, and the birds can hull them if you leave them on... unhulled is okay too...

dom pied (SF) cock x dom pied (SF) hen would give you 50% dominant pied chicks (single factor), 25% normals and 25% double factored domiant pied

I have a question to the seasoned showers, as I admit I'm new to the showing portion of breeding. I have seen many posts regarding show prep starting around 8 weeks prior to show start. However those only seem to apply to the adult birds going to show or ones already past the 4-6 month stage. What about those in the Young category that are between 2-4 months? Do you ever show them? If not why? and If so, what do you do in regards to feather preping and avoiding molting condition prior to the show? In other words, what things do you do differently for those who are pre- 1st molt or post- 1st molt. I ask because I have 4 chicks that I'd like to show at the end of May in young category but they will be around 3-5 months old and would like to have them in condition for the show if possible.

Thanks Daz, I have a wholesale account with Vetafarm so I'll be contacting them about stocking these myself, as there were a few you listed that I hadn't known their uses until now... I also use SCATT by Vetafarm for mite treatments especially in all rescues or outcross birds comming into the aviary. And the CalciVet as well, of course.

Thanks Daz, some good ideas that may be added to my management as well next season and see how they go.