splat

Thanks Libby but sorry no can do, :(Laughing out loud): I have great hopes for these birds, I'm hoping to show the grey green and the double factor if they turn out good and at this stage they look very hopefull. :ausb: I know I shouldn't get my hopes up because that seems to be when something goes wrong .

Here is an update on my white double factor cin spangle and her nest mates. The parents are down again with 8 eggs, 1 hatched yesterday, can't wait to see the out come, will keep you all updated. Here is the cinn double factor about 3 weeks and here she is about 4 weeks and now all grown and in the baby nursery and having a scratch and here is her sister must be a cinn also a but she didn't have red eyes and here are 3 pics of her brother is is a real nice big bird Nice hey, well I think so.

Really cute pics, Lea looks right at home and your budgies are lucky to have sooo many lovely toys.

Well done

Lovely birds and real nice pics Feathers, mine are looking the same really rough looking going through their moult, can't wait to see what they look like when they have finished.

Yeh Kas, I thought this article is very good, something that we all need to know.

Nice birds birdluv, it looks like they are all happy :yellowhead:

You have some nice birde ther Neat, done a good job. :yellowhead:

Now would be fine

Macka's right and just you things are going good, that's when he will do it or the hen.

Very nice bird Kas and nice name toooo

Beginner Breeding Problems by Bill Panter, Champion Breeder In discussion with a couple of Beginners recently, the talk turned to some difficulties encountered in the bird room during their second season of breeding budgerigars. The problem which concerns me the most is the misinformation about what is commonly called "splayed" chicks, the condition where a chick from just a few days old is found to be lying flat on its belly with its legs stretched (usually) straight out sideways, or sometimes out behind it, instead of the regular position under it. The Beginners had all the usual answers to this condition. They had been told by "more experienced breeders" that the problem was the result of the hen 'sitting too tight'. Well maybe, but why only one chick in the nest affected and the others okay? My observation of the "splayed chick syndrome" began when I was also a Beginner and I too received similar advice from so-called "more experienced breeders". The advice given then was to leave in the affected nest unhatched eggs or put in glass marbles or imitation eggs or switch in larger chicks to "keep the hen up". Then of course you must bind the "splayed" chick's legs together to rectify the problem. All this advice would be reasonable if the problem was indeed caused by a hen sitting too tight, but that is not usually the cause. In fact it's a condition found in many other birds and animals which is known simply as rickets, caused by a lack of calcium in the system or an inability to absorb it. Just because there is cuttlefish bone and shell grit in the cage does not mean that the hen (and thus the baby) will get sufficient calcium from it. There is also a requirement for vitamin D3 to assist in the absorption of calcium into the chick's system. The earliest sign of the "splayed chick syndrome" is a dark red discoloration of the knee joint noticeable at about 5/6 days of age. Later, both the knee and the hip joint are discoloured, followed by the chick lying flat and being under developed. In the most extreme cases feather formation is also affected - if the chick manages to live long enough. If you observe the condition at an early enough stage (4 to 7 days) the only treatment needed is the addition of liquid calcium to the water plus a suitable source of vitamin D3. Birds treated in this manner generally completely recover, even to the extent of making it to the show bench. The problem birds are those not noticed until 10 days or older. Treatment is as above, plus the need to tie both legs of the chick together for about two weeks. This can be achieved by putting a ring on both legs and tying the rings together with a piece of nylon thread. The baby will complain noisily at first and sprawl awkwardly around but soon get used to the discomfort. It's also best to minimize the number of chicks in the nest to reduce competition for the hen's attention. I have in the past used Elliot's Calcium Supplement (which contains calcium lactate) at a rate of 8 ml per 30ml of water for six days, then reverted to clean fresh water without further trouble in the nest. Another product which is proven effective is Calcivet which is a calcium, magnesium and vitamin D3 mixture in a readily acceptable form. It may be used in drinking water, over green food, on soft foods or given directly via crop needle in cases of rickets. While on this subject of calcium deficiency, it should be noted that hens laying soft shelled eggs do not have or are not converting enough of their body calcium for the shell making process.Just add liquid calcium to the water in that nest box and see the improvement. Egg binding in laying hens is often as a result of calcium deficiency too. Although this is not the only cause, a deficiency can be prevented by a little forethought. Why not put a small amount of liquid calcium in the drinking water when the birds are first paired up? It's a worthwhile and harmless precaution. And remember to always follow the manufacturers instructions when giving medication of any sort to your birds - just because a little is good,more is not necessarily better! In fact, the exact opposite is usually the case.

I found this on the The Budgerigar Council Of Victoria and found very interesting, as I thought feather plucking was hereditary. Any way it is a good read Feather Plucking is not Hereditary CEDRIC AIREY I firmly believe that feather plucking is a symptom of another condition and when that condition is relieved feather plucking does not occur. I cannot accept the theory that feather plucking is hereditary and t;hat the offenders and their offspring should be killed. I think this theory is perpetuated by each generation of newcomers accepting it, without question, and repeating it as fact. No-one seems to be willing to substantiate it from personal experience. Very often the same people who tell us the problem is here- ditary suggest putting a nest box on the breeding cage floor and letting the cock feed the chicks. This may help if the problem is environmental but it is not much help if it is hereditary. Possibly a re-occuring problem is being mistaken for a hereditary one. OVEN READY CHICKS I was foolish enough to accept this theory when in my first breeding season I discovered I had a maiden hen which plucked chicks "oven ready" and a cock with another hen which stripped all the feathers from his mate's head. Even then I did not feel that killing them all was the solution. Two years later I decided to try one of the sons of the hen plucker in the breeding cage. No problems from the cock or any of his offspring. Encouraged by this, I tried one of the "oven ready" cocks, the 'oven ready' hens were, by this time too old for breeding. Again no problems. I now have four generations of birds descended from the original two feather pluckers. Not one of these birds, cocks or hens,has ever plucked a feather from a chick even when interbred. FINDING THE ANSWERS I have had minor problems with birds from other families; the down not appearing or disappearing from between the wings on very young chicks - easily remedied with liberal applications of Nivea cream, as many fanciers know. Feathers missing from the back of the head of active three or four week old chicks ~ completely cured by using deeper nest boxes, i.e. increasing the distance between the concave base and the bottom of the entrance hole or removing some of the debris. This damage is probably caused when young chicks try to leave the nest before the hen thinks they are ready. She restrains them by holding on to the neck feathers and out they come, it's accidental rather than intentional The foregoing is sufficient for me to have grave doubts about the "kill everything, it is hereditary" theory. ALTERNATIVE CAUSES I offer for the readers' consideration three alternative causes for feather plucking. The first is breeding condition. How many breeders can differentiate between a hen that will breed and one that wants to breed? The reluctant hen from the eager hen? I cannot. The reluctant hen will mate, lay eggs, hatch and feed the chicks because it is her natural instinct. But she is not an enthusiastic mother. She gets bored sitting and feeding the chicks and starts plucking them. I anticipate this condition and provide millet spray and an iodine block or piece of cuttle in the nest box for every hen. It is therapeutic,an alternative to just sitting weeks on end. The second alternative is diet deficiency. Additives may contribute but feather plucking has been with us long before additives became popular. We know ground up chicken feathers are fed to chickens as protein. Does a Budgerigar hen nibble the down and feathers instinctively because of a lack of protein? ARTIFICIAL LIGHTING - BOON OR CURSE? A third alternative is artificial lighting. Does the increased noise and activity created by extending lighting, long beyond the amount of natural light the birds would have in their natural breeding environment, disturb sitting hens and prevent them getting sufficient rest? Does it also contribute to a reduction in the birds life span? I have no experience of parent birds attacking their young but I believe it is a different problem and not a follow-on to feather plucking. I apply these ideas to my stock with positive results. My hens are very placid. They do not bite when handled. I leave chicks with their parents until the next round starts hatching. I have odd chicks, which later proved to be hens, sitting the eggs with the mother hen and one which fed, or went through the motions of feeding the newly hatched chicks. The cocks are not aggressive towards the chicks, probably because the hen's daily ration of millet in the nest box relieves them of some of the pressure of keeping the hens fully fed. My stock are all descendants of a few birds from top bloodlines. I do pair related birds which should theoretically increase the possibility of producing feather pluckers if the problem is hereditary. I only pair what I consider to be my best birds so my findings are not based on the results of vast numbers of pairings. No matter, I am merely casting doubts on an existing theory. It is for those who advocate the killing of feather pluckers and their offspring to logically disprove my findings and provide first hand evidence that this.problem is hereditary. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And this was there too from another breeder. Feather Plucking (Geoff-West). Every experienced fancier has at some time been asked. "What is the reason for some Budgerigars plucking their young?" and the answer usually is, "I really don't know". Three questions you would ask yourself, after receiving this answer would be. Is it hereditary? Is it a physical problem? Is it a lack of some nutrient in the Cock or Hen? Overseas many fanciers are of the opinion that it is hereditary and is recessive in some birds, but not in others. Any mannerism, physical condition or likeness, will be inherited from both parents and will be passed on from generation to generation in a recessive form. The physical make up of a bird, particularly the nervous system, could well be the cause of feather plucking young in the nest. Old Canary fanciers used rusty nails in the drinking water and claimed they had good success re feather plucking. The iron would tone up both the arterial & nervous system. The use of iron preparations could be tried,to see if it had any bearing re feather plucking. Various iron preparations can be procured at your Chemist. My own view is that feather plucking is caused through a physical condition,mainly stress,during the incubation period, plus boredom, and the end result is that either the Cock or Hen become highly strung & pluck the down & feathers from their young. A comparison would be human beings who bite their nails. This cannibalism is without exception related to nerves. Feather plucking could be hereditary, and be recessive in some members of a family of Budgerigars. All feather pluckers are not the product of hereditary factors,and some birds do not express this pernicious habit until their second breeding season. Both Cock and Hen feather pluck their young, but in most instances, it is the Hen that is the culprit. It is advisable where feather plucking occurs, to note whether it is indeed the Cock or the Hen doing this. Take the Cock away first, and if the feather plucking continues, you know which is the culprit. If it discontinues then it is the Cock bird. Whichever is the culprit if not a top class bird,rid yourself of it. You should record any birds that indulge in this pernicious habit when rearing chicks, and note the fact in your breeding records, so that you can take the necessary action if you breed with them later. All birds learn by example from their parents, so if you see feathers disappear from the chicks,move them into other nests where possible. Any young that have been feather plucked and on attaining adulthood, are to be used for breeding, should be watched very carefully when their young start to feather, as they have learned by example,and I have found,quite often,they pluck their chicks. There is no conclusive evidence relating to why Budgerigars pluck their young, and it appears, that to date, there are only theories. I believe the best way to control this cannibalism is: Feed your birds on a good quality seed mixture. See that their water is clean, and presented in such a way, that it cannot be fouled by droppings, or any other foreign body. Use a soluble Multi Vitamin powder in the water twice a week, and whilst breeding. Discard Canary Shell Grit & use Mineralised Pigeon Grit. Feed an adequate supply of green feed. Have a mineralised salt lick in each of your flights. Rigidly adhere to culling out feather pluckers, unless they quality birds that you cannot afford to dispose of. In conclusion. In quite a few articles I have read, relating to feather plucking, it appears that where partly cooked meat was hung in the aviaries for the birds to pick at, those birds never feather plucked. Sorry it is so long but it is very interesting

Hey Birdluv when I voted I only had 2 to choose from, the first 2 on the list which were from 4 birds to luv and now there is more, can you cancel my vote so I can have another go, because the one I wanted to vote for wasn't there before but it is now :hap:

Daz I would like to mix my own but I can't seem to be able to the seed around here, Only 2 places sell canary seed and you know the difference in price is unbelieveable, the seed place in Numurkah gets in the canary seed and sells it for $1.80 kg it hasn't changed since the drought but budgie seed sky Rocketed and the other place Hunters in Shepparton sells their Canary seed for $4.40 Kg and that was before the drought, The one in Numurkah was much cleaner and hunters you were paying for husk and grass. Any I rang around trying to get the millet etc and no one stock them only mixed seed. So I buy mix and I have changed from golden cob $58.00 a 25kg bag to Howard Martin $60.50 for a 40kg because of the price. I add extra canary seed for the breeders and young.

I don't have any runners but every now and again I get a couple that can't fly for a while and I find it totally annoying. They must hurt their wings or something any way after a while they are backing flying. So it is a good thing you didn't bring it home. :hap:

Thanks birdluv, I am so happy but Still taking one day at a time because it could be still lurking around yet, But boy I hope not. Nearly all my babies are starting to moult and that's when it hit the others so time will tell.

That's what I am hoping for plus I will get opaline cocks, can't wait to see what turns up Daz

I am breeding yellow face, it is not a good idea to breed yellow face to spangle because you nearly always get the yellow bleeding through the wings etc. When you purchase a yellow face bird just make sure there is no yellow in and on the body. When breeding you are better to breed to the blue series which includes the grey than the green because if you breed to the green you will get some yellow face green and you more than likely will not know because the green is masking it, so that means you will have yellow face popping up everywhere in the future. And that can be very annoying. As for showing if you put a yellow face in the yellow face class, it will be judged as a yellow face and points will be marked on the same as any other type bird. But you will be marked against if the bird has yellow bleeding through it. I breed to normals & opalines with my yellowfaces. This is only my opinion and advice that I have got off breeders. I just got this from the budgerigar Council of Victoria site. It is Standard, what is allowed for yellow faces It reads As for normal series blue but with a bright yeloow mask & frontal, other features as for corresponding non yellow face varieties, includes Blue series in Black eyed self, Red eyed self, Clearwing, Gretwing, Cinnamonwing, Lacewing, Opaline & Fallow. Then it says Secondary & tertiary tails may carry yellow. This site if you want to have a look tells you about all colours and varieties meaning it is what the judges judge you on. Good luck

Your new bird is really cute, she sounds like she is settling in. She looks like a hen to me too.

Daz the vet told me 10ml to 1 litre of water. Is that about the same as you, do you give it to all the birds including the breeding ones?

I have this real nice opaline sky blue cock, he is about 4 yrs old, got nothing out of him last year when I purchased him but this year I have 2 really good lt green cocks of good size and width ect and he throughs the a good V on the saddle. The old chap he is very fertile, he is down with my opaline yellow face hen, they have 8 eggs and all look fertile, ready to hatch tomorrow on. Yes Daz I know they will be all opaline but that's okay, I might get something really good. Just hope I don't get anymore than 1 yellow face. The hen is a real good size hen when I showed early this year the judge said she was a top bird but the bird that bet her was in better condition. Plus she was real naughty and ran on the bottom of the cage. Have trained better since then. I can be strong when it comes to the cull, have to b need to make room for future birds, don't we.

UPDATE: Well I gave the birds their last dose of Trimidine, it has been 2 weeks and 2 days since the last bird died, have had some in hospital cages looking crook but now they are in isolation cages. All birds are looking fine at this stage, so I have my fingers crossed that I have fixed the problem. The vet adviced me to start then on apple cider vinigar in their water as this fights off lots of things. I use to give to my horse when I had him. But still watching closely

Will do Daz, thanks

Thanks Daz I will have to strong minded. The problem is, it id coming out of the new birds we have purchased but at least I am working it out now and making pedagrees