Norm

I agree with Feathers…My understanding from searching on the net & Ghalib Al-Nasser’s site is that unless one bird is a Dark Eyed Clear, you have to have a Clearflight [df]/recessive pied paired with a Recessive pied…or a Clearflight [sf]/Recessive pied paired with a Recessive Pied. I’m not sure if the hen is a Clearflight or a dominant pied…she has some white flight feathers & a white tail, the dominant pied head spot & some pied on her chest, she could be a badly marked Clearflight, but lots of her brothers were much more pied & looked like Dominants, but of course they could be a combination of Dominant, Recessive & Clearflight. So both father & mother may be at least split for recessive pied so it might work like this…I guess I will have to wait to see if the baby gets iris rings to prove it.

I got a little surprise with one of my younguns today. It appears to be basically white [with a suffusion of blue] it has black eyes. I wonder if it’s a Dark Eyed Clear, but doesn’t seem to fit, with what it’s parents are. I have read about whites of light suffusion on UK sites, but I don’t know much about them. Could it be one of them? THE MOTHER: Cobalt, cinnamon, I think Dominant pied or Clearflight. Bred from a Cobalt, dominant pied hen or clearflight…paired to a Cinnamon, Grey Green/split Opaline cock…. they produced Cinnamon pied & Opaline Hens. Normal cocks & Normal pied cocks. In blues, greens, grey greens & greys. THE FATHER: Opaline normal sky blue, white face [probably split to Recessive pied]. Bred from a Grey Opaline YF [maybe YF1] Hen..Not much suffusion of green in chest] mated to an YF2 Opaline normal sky blue/split recessive pied Cock. Parents of father produced YF1, YF2, white faced blues & recessive pieds. In blues & Greys. I don’t have any genetics further back as both lines bought from a pet shop. Has anyone got any ideas please? Picture here… http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...itebudgie2a.png I worked on the picture to make it clearer & it brought up the blue suffusion more than in the actual bird, it maybe easier to tell more when it gets older.

I agree with Nerwen, from the picture your bird looks healthy, I think he’s chewing his own feathers, probably because he is kept by himself & gets bored, you could give him things to play with, but sadly once they start habits like that it’s often very hard to break them of it.

Yeah I bought a male pied this year & then I noticed something on his leg, which I thought at first must be scaly mite, but on closer inspection turned out to be similar feathers to your birds. I think it's pretty rare & shows it wouldn't be hard to select for feathery legged budgies. But I also don't think that would be a good thing, as many birds have been bred with large feathers on their legs & I think it's mostly of great inconvience to them. Best to keep our budgies with feather free legs I think.

Nice bird…definitely some kind of opaline, but the flecks of green on the yellow is unusual, as that would suggest some kind of pied, but if it had that much influence from pied, on the body, you would expect some pied makings in the wings.

That site was building his new avairy, not soft food...

I read some where about Daz’s soft food, but I couldn’t find it with search, here is what I feed my birds, any comments & would like to see other ideas…unless of course they are top secret!!!… To four hard boiled eggs [10 minutes] crumbled…I add a small 185gram tuna tin full of Medicated chic starter, then four Arrowroot biscuits, four Shredded Wheatmeal biscuits [crushed of course] & a small tuna tin full of dried bread crumbs…all rubbed together & slightly moistened to a crumbly state. I feed this to all my birds, Budgerigars, Canaries, Cockatiels & African Lovebirds [Fishers]

I have been looking further on the web on some UK sites & I have seen some pictures of Rainbows; according to them a Rainbow is an YF2 Opaline Clearwing. My cock bird looks exactly the same as the pictures, but if it was a Clearwing [recessive] I don’t think I would have got some young like him unless the hen was split for Clearwing & because one of the young [in picture] is a Spangle, the clearness in my cocks wing, must be from the Spangle gene. I took this picture yesterday, I found it was hard getting young birds of that age to cooperate with me, every time I went to click the camera they ran all over the place & over each other…this was the best I could do. Also to my shock as I went to take the picture, I found the Spangle youngster already out of the nest & feathers scalped from it’s head & on looking in the nest quite a few had feathers taken from their heads. After taking the pictures I decided to put all the young out of the nest, on the floor of the breeding box, as I suspected the mother was doing it, but later in the day I saw the cock bird attacking them & now have returned them to the nest & removed the cock. In the picture we have I think…from L to R…Cobalt Rainbow?…Green Spangle…Skyblue Rainbow?…Cinnamon Grey…Two Cobalt Normals...there are two more young fostered, but no pin feathes as yet so don't know what they are. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...66/Younguns.jpg

This a picture of one of the birds that didn’t moult out to a clear forehead, I bought it as a youngster, but I think it’s almost one year old, in the picture you will see it has some pin feathers now. It’s only a small bird I bought it for it’s intense yellow, I think it’s a recessive pied. The other one I tried getting a picture, but it didn’t work out & like you asked, it’s a light green opaline hen with black feathers similar, but not as many as Kaz’s second show bird she just bought, the opaline grey. Not a big start to a black budgie, but I like breeding new or different colours, so will try breeding these two birds, later when the hen has had a rest from her current batch. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/Pied.jpg

Nice birds I wish you luck with them.

Nerwen...I will post some pics in the next few days, one is in the nest breeding at the moment & the other is not much of a bird [type wise]. They are not related, I bought one in my home town & the other in a town an hours drive away. The are a long way from "black" budgies, but maybe it's a place to start. I have a thought or feeling about those black budgies I have seen in pictures on here & the web...I get the feeling they may be a throw back to how a budgie was, before they became the normal light green wild type, in stead of a new mutation...just a though, it can't be proven I guess.

I’m interested in breeding normal spangles with good wing markings, but I love what you get when the opaline gene is introduced into the spangles. I think it’s best to keep the two different colours separate, have some good opaline spangles & good normal spangles. I don’t know if there are classes for opaline spangles at the shows, but I love the breeding potential mixed with the spangle, of beautiful birds. With the opaline spangle I wouldn't worry if the spangle marking was bred out of the wings, as I like the look of a more or less completely blue or green bird. But if the spangle marking were removed completely maybe they wouldn't be called spangles???

Looks like an ino or cremino, but I agree YF DF Spangle, as it doesn't have the red eye type cere.

Thanks Nerwen...I know about these birds, from Pieds & DF spangles, but I was wondering if anyone had or knew of yellows with black eyes, not the plum eyes like these birds. Maybe the birds I knew when I was young [a long time ago] were like these & I didn't take enough close notice of them, but they seemed like they had actual black eyes. just like normal greens & blues. I must look at the white cock's eyes closer, as he appears to have the pinkish blue cere not the true blue, so he may be a DEC.

Like Elly says, this can be the problem with colony breeding. If you colony breed, you have to be very careful, with things like nest placement. The nests need to be very similar & placed at the same height if possible, there needs to be more nest than pairs, so that they have some choice, if one nest is more desirable than the others they all may fight over it, like it seems in your case & Like Elly said, anything can happen up to deaths & mutilations. Breeding in separate cages [cabinets] is the safest, but of course more expensive. If you want to breed in a colony, I would suggest less pairs in the aviary & like I said more choice of nests. It certainly sound like your system in that situation wont work, as shown by the trouble you are already having, I would suggest you remove the nests again, until you can arrange something more suitable other wise you may loose birds.

Starchky, that’s the green one? I’m afraid that from your picture it looks a lot like a female That’s why your other male bird likes it & is feeding it, but of course budgies will feed each other even when they are of the same sex, as it’s a social thing to them. As to how old birds are…before their first moult you can tell a bird is very young as it still has bars on it’s forehead, after that with experience you can often tell if the bird is young or very old by it’s looks, but then the exact age is more difficult.

I’m impressed by some of the pictures I have seen on this site of what are known as black budgies, the ones with the line pattern from the wings & heads all over their bodies, does anyone know if any of this mutation are in Australia, as I read that they were only known in the Netherlands? I have two birds that I bought when they were young & when they moulted out, they didn’t get clean clear foreheads, like most budgies & I was disappointed, but now I think maybe I could use them to try to bred something like those blacks. I'm not interested in cresteds too much, but are there any other new colours around?

I’m interested in Spangles & I have bred some with faint marking on their wings, which I like, some are Opalines, but if you want to breed normal type Spangles with nice dark markings on their wings, logic tells me that maybe it’s best to breed them to nice normals. Is this the best way? As I think I have learned that if I breed two spangles together, they will turn out double factors & loose most of their wing markings.

When I bred budgies, when I was young, there were birds called black-eyed yellows. Does anyone know if anyone breeds them now, I would like to get some, hopefully I can get some, not too far away from my area. I know since I have started on this forum that there are now DEC, bred from pieds & double factor spangles, but these were yellow birds with black eyes, I have got a black eyed white & some birds bred from a black eyed white cock, mated with a spangle, I thought maybe I could breed them into the yellow series birds & get them from that, but I’m not sure what these black eyed whites are genetically. Has anyone got any ideas thanks?

If they have bred before successfully, maybe you just have to give them more time. Maybe they are not in breeding condition...how long ago was the successful batch?

Hi Lankan, Welcome…if you put budgies together to breed they can have eggs in something like 10 days, but sometimes it may take much longer & with some pairs for some reason it may not be obvious. I have had some pairs that have been together for months & even the hen has spent all day in the nest, with still no eggs. In cases like this something is wrong, you can try changing the mate or trying another cage or a different nest, but sometimes it will turn out that something must be wrong, probably with the hen, in which case she will be of no use for breeding. Re feeding the egg, this can be a good idea, but I usually mix other things with it, I don’t know if similar things are available for you in Canada. To one egg I mix one arrowroot biscuit, one shredded wholemeal biscuit & a similar amount of dried breadcrumbs, rub the egg & other mixture together to mix well, if too dry a small amount of water, but not too much, it’s good to just be slightly crumbly. If too dry or too wet they wont like it. Don’t feed too much at once, it can be kept in the frig for a day, but always flesh is best & remove any old egg & biscuit that’s not eaten.

Hi again…I have had some results already from this bird & his light green cinnamon hen…they laid 8 eggs, all hatched, I fostered 3 with other pairs that didn’t get many young. I don’t believe in fostering young from birds, that don’t feed or breed well, but have no problem in easing the work on successful breeders. I have been lucky, I thought with this male I maybe wouldn’t get any young the same as him in the first batch, as maybe part of the genetics that made him was recessive, but already it looks like I have two young the same as him [maybe females if it’s the result of the opaline]. One green spangle, so he definitely is a spangle, two normal cobalts & one that looks like cinnamon, so he must be split. The others are too young as yet, I will post some pictures soon as they get a few more feathers, I hope your interested regards…Norm. PS. That's twice I got Warn: [0%] at the bottom left...am I doing something wrong is my post too long???

That’s a carpet python, as others have said, I live in the bush on the north coast & have this problem all the time, it looks like at least two metres, I have got used to them & catch them & relocate them at least 10 kilometres away, as they will home to a place. I don’t advise you trying it, if your at all scared of them, as it’s not pleasant, they are not dangerous in the fact that they are not venomous, it needs to be grabbed close behind the head, then near the tail, as if not they will quickly wrap themselves around some part of your body & it’s quite cold & scary even when your been doing it for 20 years of more. Then their last method of protection is to defecate over you, so like I say not pleasant & needs confidence. They need to be placed quickly in a feedbag or something similar tied & relocated to a bushy area. I don’t have good news for you, in my experience once they have got the scent of birds, they don’t usually leave the area by their own accord. Luckily they don’t need to feed that often & get quite in the colder months, but will hang around & as they are nocturnal will come out at night & keep trying to get to the source of birds. Even though I have done every thing to prevent their access to my aviaries, eventually unless your protection is perfect, they will gain access.

The reason I keep birds & especially budgerigars, is that I enjoy living things & nature. Before I was given my first birds, I used to collect ants & other things & watch them build their homes in the dirt in my jar, Mum says that for some strange reason they never used to bite me. It’s almost seems like it’s why I was put here, as I really don’t know why I started. It seems to be in my families’ blood anyway, as my Grandfather used to keep canaries & enjoy growing gardens, maybe that’s where I got it from. Since I started back with Budgerigars especially, two years ago, after keeping other birds for years, I have discovered how much I love them, they just seem such happy birds, I just enjoy watching them late in the afternoon, which is a normal time for them to be active, as where they live in nature, it’s very hot during the middle of the day & they spend the midday dozing & preening themselves. I gather some of their favourite grass seeds & green plants, so that I can sit & watch them eating on the ground of the aviary. Even though an aviary isn’t the natural habitat of budgerigars, my birds seem to be extremely happy & fly crazily around their aviary, ducking & diving in great pleasure, I have one family especially that have just been in the aviary a few weeks, they are very special, they seem to have even more vigour than others & after they got over the initial shock of being moved from the breeding cabinet to the large aviary, are even more energetic & crazy than most. I love breeding, as each new individual gives the excitement of something new. It’s like your own children, not one is exactly alike & each can be loved in their own special way. I breed Guinea pigs also, as they have such colour variation that each new one can be something special. I have shown budgerigars before, but mainly I breed them now just to breed even more healthy & stronger birds, without problems. I want to breed better looking birds & interesting colours, but primary it’s healthy vigorous trouble free birds I aim for.

That’s interesting about the baby oil Daz…I think any oil would be okay Zebra, as mostly what it does is stop the mite from breathing. When I was a kid we used to use Detol antiseptic on the beak & legs. What I have used of late, even though I don’t like using too many chemicals is Ivermectin; its registered use is, as a pour on drench for sheep & goats. It’s used for air sac mites in Canaries & Gouldian finches. I started back in budgerigars about 2 years ago & after buying what seemed like clean birds, I began to notice that many were getting the characteristic mite growth near the beak. I bought some Genesis [which contains ivermectin] it’s not cheap; the smallest size I could get was 250ml, which cost about $80. They recommend just a small drop, either like you say Zebra [i think this is the oil your vet is giving you] under the wing, or on the juggler vein, under the beak, which is how I have been applying it. Anywhere on the body where it will be quickly absorbed into the blood stream. It will kill scaly face mite, air sac mites & internal parasites. They say to be very careful, but I have had a few accidents & they got a larger dose & I saw no ill effects, so I think it’s pretty safe, best to not get too much on yourself, even thought they use it for head lice in humans in the USA. After treating all my flock, I now treat any new birds coming into my aviary. It lasts long enough, I think 21 days in the blood stream of the birds, to kill off all mites & get others that hatch from eggs in that time, I have had no further trouble. But of course for one or two birds the oil use would certainly do & is much cheaper.