Norm

Yes your first picture is of true Dandelion, which is a good & safe weed, just be careful where you get all weeds from, close to busy roads can often not be good because of built up levels of lead from old super petrol & other contaminates from car fumes, also areas which have access from dogs [people walking their dogs etc]. There is also what is known at false Dandelion or Flat weed, which is similar, it’s also probably safe as I have fed it to rabbits & guinea pigs, but I’m not sure, I have never fed it to birds. The other pictures of grasses, I’m afraid, aren’t good enough to recognise them. Maybe they are some of the millet type grasses, but they appear from your photos [they are not big enough or close enough to be sure] that already the seeds may have fallen from them; the seed heads of grasses is what Budgies like the most. There is a common pasture grass Setaria that they like & is safe & other wild millet looking grasses that are good & safe. I think that most grasses are safe & even without their seed heads, Budgies will chew them & get juices from them…young sorghum plants are toxic to some animals so be careful of them. I even feed young Farmers Friends & the green seed heads to my birds, as they are common in my area & they like them.

I also would doubt that mating has anything to do with aiding egg laying. The fertilization of each egg must occur some days prior to the egg being laid, as fertilisation must occur, I would think when the eggs is minute & then it would start to grow & then have the albumen added, then the shell. I have never watched with such detail as you suggest, but think that mating occurs quite often & for lengthy periods, so I would think it’s just coincidence.

I have had lots of hens that act like Neats, once their in the breeding cabinets, you only see them for brief moments, to feed or be fed by the cocks. I had one hen that I put up to breed & she was so keen she was straight into the nest & I didn’t see her doing anything with the cock & thought the first batch of eggs would be infertile, but they are now raising 5 chics.

Well I had a disaster this week; I had a new young pair with young, I only started back with budgies about two years ago & now just started breeding with my first lot of youngsters. They had five young, but lost one when it was almost feathered, no sign that it was sick, just one day dead with a full crop of food [which now from searching the net, I find is a symptom] the other four looked perfectly healthy, including two YF greys, with nice yellow masks. Then when almost you expect them to leave the nest, I found some had lost their flight & tail feathers, I expected a feather plucker, so I put them on the floor of the aviary. Which is what I do if I have trouble with parents feather plucking. I was colony breeding with three pairs, the hens, sisters to each other & the cocks also brothers from another pair. I also thought maybe another hen had entered the nest & plucked them. The oldest young one, was still perfect, but the others had lost wing or tail primary feathers, I thought it was strange after a few days that the oldest one had not moved up onto the perches, as is usual, when it suddenly lost all it’s flight feathers & tails also. I searched & read lots on the net on PDFD & French Moult [runners etc] Polyoma virus. I also read some earlier information on this forum & agree there are lots of differing advice & ideas about this Polyoma virus, which is what I have decided I have, thankfully not PDFD. Rob Marshal recommends culling, which was my first thought. But after reading I have decided to not do this at this time. A few articles from scientist suggest that after running a period of months, while they shed this virus in most cases the birds become immune & it’s no longer detected. It was a shock, I had bred both of the parents, from two of my best breeding pairs, last year, but now looking back, with the parents of the cock bird, they had had three batches, with no problems, but on the last batch, when they left the nest, the last chic lost all it’s tail & primary wing feathers & I was worried, but in two weeks she had grown them back & was flying with the rest, I thought it must have been some nutrient problem, her being the last chic & I had left the mother to rear only three chicks, as the cock didn’t look well & I fostered the rest of their batch. The cock bird suddenly died some months later. I had fostered some other chicks with this nest, where I got the runners, but after so many of their eggs hatched, I moved the fostered chicks to another batch, there has been no problem with these birds or the batch they were put with. Some articles on the web suggest it’s egg borne & this seem like it. I have had some pervious batches with parents from the same parents paired together, but so far no problems with any of their young. Anyway this is a bit long winded, I can say some more later.

Maybe those birds have a dilute factor as well. ALSO I think the DF Spangles will only get the white iris as they mature & have their first moult. So you would have to wait till then for confirmation, if you don’t know their breeding.

I looked in my book & the common name Peppermint refers to quite a few Eucalypts, there is what was a very popular tree in the Sydney area that was sold as Peppermint, some years ago, maybe the tree some are referring to is like this, but I know of some that planted them & they became much bigger than they thought & were problems inbuilt up areas. What you need is someone who uses Peppermints to give you the actual botanical name e.g. Eucalyptus such & such…. to be sure. Probably any Peppermint in the Eucalyptus family would be okay, but be careful Peppermint maybe be a common name of some other trees not even of the Eucalypt family & may not be safe.

Like you say, Budgies mostly will breed like rabbits & when paired up mostly will have eggs in two weeks, but there is always the exception. I have had trouble of late with some birds that I bought, maybe because they may be older birds. One pair have been together something like 6 months, as soon as they were paired up & the nest place with them, the hen was going in & out of the nest. Then for some unknown reason, she stopped & I didn’t see her enter the box again for months, then all of sudden a couple of weeks ago she started to enter the nest again & soon had eggs. Both were in what was considered good breeding condition, so why it took so long I don’t know I was about to give up on them. Of course there is always the possibility with some pairs, but it’s rare, that something is wrong & they may never breed.

Hi Jakev: If you haven’t had much experience with Budgerigars before, are you sure they are in fact fighting. Budgies when healthy are extremely boisterous & at times fly madly about their cage chasing each other & flap their wings in crazy ways, because they are excited & really enjoying life. Especially when they are doing things like that, you will get some feather losses at all times, especially if the birds are moulting at all. Just a thought for you. Also like the others have told you, maybe a larger cage would be better & it’s better to have a perch at each end of the cage, out from the wire enough that they don’t damage their tails, so that the birds can have more exercise flying from one end to the other, instead of a perch the whole length of the cage.

Re the toxicity of new Eucalypt branches, from stumps & after bushfires, I can’t remember where I read it now, but maybe Budgies aren’t effected by it any way, I think some times in the past I fed it, before reading that, with no bad effects & since haven’t used it again just to be sure. Good to hear so many are using them & it seems to be beneficial.

I love Custard Kaz...I've been meaning to say for some time & sounds like he's a good feeder too. I must try & breed one like him.

I have on occasions given my Budgies Eucalyptus branches to chew, but of late have read some articles on it & decided to give them on a more regular basis. I’m now planing to give them once a week, if possible. Sorry for you overseas guys, maybe it’s not so possible, because they are not available. This week I hung about a metre length branch from their perch, in three aviaries with approximately 20 birds in each, there was a big difference for some reason in how they used them. They were all mostly young birds of less than 12 months of age. There were three different age groups, one cage almost finished their first moult, then a couple of months of age & young birds just put together from the breeding cages. For some reason the middle age group stripped the branch & bark completely from it, it is now all on the floor in pieces, this happened already on the first day, the others even after three days are still hanging from the perch in one piece & only most of the bark has been chewed off. One interesting thing to me was that one bird, wasn’t looking so well, I thought, in one cage, she has spent most of her time on the branch chewing & actually looks better. I used branches from the coastal bloodwood, I have a big property & it’s easy for me to get branches, but one thing I read, was that new shoots from stumps [where a tree has been cut down] were toxic, to protect them from being eaten, so even though they are the easiest to harvest, better not use them & get branches from trees. I don’t know if you have seen this web page of a Sydney avian vet, Rob Marshall he produces lots of avian products, I haven’t used him, but he seems very popular, with others. On his feeding page he mentions the feeding of Eucalypts. http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/budgie/feeding.html

Thanks for that Nerwen...

So if I have got it right, from what you all say, the YF1 doesn't have any yellow in it's tail even only it's mask? I thought it was YF1 if it didn't have the bleed in the chest causing the sea green effect.

I like the clear way you put that Elly…"ONE DOMINANT GENE TWO RECESSIVE GENES" this is the way it’s put on Al-Nassar’s chart… Clearflighted (sf)/Recessive Pied x Recessive Pied… Gives you 25% Recessive Pied 25% Normal/Recessive Pied…25% Clearflighted [sf]/Recessive Pied 25% Dark-eyed Clears…when I looked at it I thought you have got to have the Clearflighted /Recessive paired to a Recessive pied, but maybe it doesn’t matter…maybe it still works if this CLF/Recessive is mated to either a Recessive Pied or a bird split for Recessive Pied, it still works, you still get another Recessive Pied gene either way & maybe that's all that matters..

Here are two other brothers YF Blue from the same parents, one looks like a YF1 the other a YF2, to me, what do your think? http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/YF.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...e6666/YF2Op.jpg

Something I would like to know, could anyone confirm this for me. When I had budgies before when I was young I got the idea that once a bird was tame & imprinted on humans, especially males. It was useless as a breeder. But I get the impression on here that many people, have tame birds [at least finger tame] & then breed successfully with these birds. I had some males that once they were tame they never produced fertile eggs when paired up with females. I have these two males that I bought from a pet shop, so I don’t know their history, they could even be someone’s discarded pets. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...e6666/mates.jpg By the way, they are the best of freinds, always together, maybe it's a case of a problem shared a problem halved, or maybe it's something else (Laughing out loud). I have mated them both with a couple of hens & never produce one fertile egg, I gave them young from other nests to foster & they fed them successfully, but maybe their problem is just that they are infertile. Some female are very aggressive & some males seem scared to mate with them, but in both cases I have put another male with their hens & straight away got fertile eggs. The cinnamon grey green especially I would like to succeeded with, as it’s a nice looking bird & very vigorous, but it’s problem may be that, I returned home one day after being away & found it hanging upside down, by it’s ring, it almost died I had it inside in a warm place for a week before it recovered, it’s recovered fully now, but only has one toe forward & one backward on it’s ring leg, have anyone had success breeding with a bird with an injured foot?

Also I meant to add, re mice, you must do as much as possible to keep them out of your cages & food supply. I can’t see your aviaries, but about the cheapest option to mice proof them would be to get some galvanised steel of some kind & after fixing your floors, seal the whole perimeter at ground level with the tin up to at least 1 foot [old measurement] maybe more so that mice can’t climb the wire & get access to your aviaries. My advice would be also to make sure that water from rain can’t access your floors, I know some people have outside floors to their aviaries, but moisture of any kind breeds trouble, life needs moisture & if you limit it in your aviaries as much as possible [also around drinkers] it will keep your problems to a minimum…moisture is a problem with worms, coccidiosis, bacteria etc.

Hi Lisachilton: How are things going? I have been thinking about your situation & whether you decided to go to the vets or otherwise, this would be my suggestions of how to proceed with your disaster. First off remove all surviving Budgerigars to an isolation situation, well away from your other birds, in another cage, something, which you probably should have done when the first couple of birds became ill. Then watch your other parrots closely & if any look like getting unwell, also isolate them straight away. Hopefully if it’s contagious, this may help, but hopefully in your situation it may be something like some toxic poison, which hopefully will involve only the budgie cage. After removing the birds, spray the aviary with a strong solution of household bleach, wash the perches, maybe even renew them & the nest boxes & anything else then dry them in the sun for some days. Then as soon as possible fix the floors of all your aviaries with either concrete as you suggest of pavers, maybe pavers may be better in your situation, as to concrete you will have to move all the birds out for at least something like four days. With pavers you could install them & then mix up slurry of bricklayers sand & cement & brush it into the cracks between them, to seal the cracks as well as possible. If it isn’t just some poison & some other contagious disease, the problem is complicated, as it may be a bacterium or something else & only a veterinary diagnosis would confirm that, which might cost quite a lot. You could purchase some Vetafarm Psittavet, doxycycline hydrochloride 40mg/g, from your vet, this is for psittacosis [Chlamydia] & treat their drinking water with it [it’s about $50 for 450g] this will need to be fed daily [fresh] for 45 days for Chlamydia & for other bacterial infections it recommends 7 to 10 days.

Yes Feathers it's the pour on version, I should have said that. I used to be able to get it in a small platic bottle for $20, but that vet suppier has closed & now I'm unable to buy it like that, I think because it's now been made illegal to sell these things in broken lots & must be sold in the proper container, with all the dose instructions & safety instructions & it's actually illegal, I think to use it on any other animal etc than the ones approved by law. But it's use is very common for other things like birds & other annimals. The CSIRO has used it on control of air sac mites with Gouldian finches. You have to be lucky to get broken lots now, in your area.

might it be a dilute? Hi Marlony: If you read the previous posts you will see we decided what colour the bird is...It's a Yellow faced Sky blue Opaline Spangle. Which has been proven with the breeding results, it produced four Spangles two similar to himself & two normal blue Spangles, Spangle being dominant. It looks very similar in colour to birds called Rainbows, but the Rainbow is a Yellow Faced Opaline Blue Clear Wing, the Clear wing part which is recessive.

I’m sorry but dirt floors aren’t a good idea, you could get trouble with coccidiosis like someone said & also worms especially if the floor gets wet. The raking could have stirred up something. The pecking at their rears probably shows some stomach problem, which could be some type of poison, through eating something, like contaminated food or plants, also most diseases cause diarreah also coccidiosis [usually there will be blood in the droppings] & worms so it makes it hard. Ivermectin is good but expensive, from produce stores, it will control worms, lice & mites…with Budgies just one drop on the skin near the throat or under the wing, one or two more drops for larger parrots, vets probably wont recommend it as it’s only registered for sheep & cattle. The smallest amount I could buy of late was just over $80. It probably too late for Ivermectin for the real sick birds. Coccidiosis is mostly rare with budgies if the floor is always dry. They build up immunity to it. It needs a coccidiostat drug.

Here’s some pictures of some Spangle young I got from this pair, now that they have grown back their feathers after being plucked. They produced two YF2 Opaline Spangles, one Sky blue the other cobalt [hens]… Two Sky blue Spangles, one Green spangle, two Normal cobalt & one Sky blue normal, eight in all, three were fostered to make it easier for the parents. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...66/Spangle2.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...anglegreen1.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...lueSpangle2.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...BlueSpangle.jpg This picture shows one of the YF2 Opaline Spangles & one of the Sky blue spangles, both look the same. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...twospangles.jpg

Before I came to this forum, I thought the difference in YF’s [the amount of green in the chest] was just a fault & thought you just had to select to remove as much green as possible. Now I understand the YF1 & YF2…but I wonder why you seem to get both in some batches from the same parents. With these pictures I have had the same problem some others have talked about, of getting the colour right [true to life] especially when using flash. It’s hard for me to take pictures without flash as my aviaries are in a bird room & have shade cloth over the wire to deter Hawks etc. It seems worse with YF & violet birds, as the colour changes. The first picture is the father bird…an YF1 [i think], in reality he is much darker, I thought maybe a violet, but the blue has washed out & more green appears than in the real bird. He is paired with a Sky Blue Opaline Cinnamon Clearflight hen. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...6666/YFblue.jpg These are three of their young, now moulted. The hen & one cock have plenty of green in their chest, but the Clearflight pied appears to mostly just have blue. Have any of you had similar experiences & what are your thoughts? http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...FbluehenJPG.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/YFOp.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/YFcl.jpg

try this one Marlony... http://www.sqbba.com/breeding_expectations.htm

Have you looked at the possibility of some form of poison? Similar to Kaz’s birds with branches from toxic trees. Have you done anything different previous to the started deaths? Once I lost half of a loft of pigeons after I put some damp sawdust on the floor, something like 20 birds died in a few days, another loft next to it full of pigeons without the sawdust, separated only by a wire wall, didn’t loose one bird, so it wasn’t something contagious. Vets were unable to help me, except that they said maybe there was some fungus in the sawdust. The only compensation was that I looked on the survivors as being amazingly strong vigorous birds…you have to salvage some positive from such disasters. Yes your birds could have picked up something from rats or mice, I too live in a rural area & are surrounded by bushland, for 24 years I have been trying to control these pest, without much success only keeping their numbers down. My aviaries are completely covered from outside birds; they are in a bird room. It is also supposed to be mice & rat proof, but that was just a dream, mice will always get in & once you have a couple, its paradise for them. They can get Chlamydia from mice etc, called psittacosis in parrots. To cure that takes 45 days of feeding antibiotics, which I have tried with little results & hundreds of dollars, then the next day a mouse can enter again & your back to square one. I always think that the best way with birds is natures way of survival of the fittest…it’s the only sure way, with my 60 year experience with birds, things as small as birds, even though budgies are extremely strong & I have had some recover, don’t respond well to treatments, mostly I have found once a bird is badly sick all treatments are to little avail. I know that many on this site recommend avian vets, but I found that most vets have little knowledge of small birds. Avian vets are more common these days, but can be very expensive. It’s different if your budgie is your household pet or companion & its loss will be very upsetting, you try in these situations everything & cost is not an option. When I first started with birds I used to cry & preform burials [i was 7] but I soon decided if I was going to keep things like bird’s deaths were inevitable, so I had to become more practical. Deaths are always upsetting & we wished they never happened, but especially with small birds that only live a few years you need to expect it sometime. I don’t foster young from birds that won’t feed their young, these birds are soon culled. I have lost a couple of birds of late always from two families, these two families don’t have much of a future with me. I know it sound hard, but you have to live with reality. Like I said check for anything new that may have caused this problem, I hope it’s not contagious & your other birds are safe. As others have said at least contact with a vet in your situation & such losses seems wise, whether it will help or not I’m not sure. Are the remaining birds looking sick, can you explain some of the symptoms? You say…”I have noticed them picking and scratching a bit lately though.” At themselves…explain a bit more what you mean by this?…good luck…Norm.