Norm

Has any one got any ideas, to help me, on what this bird is, it was bred from a Dark Green Spangle cock paired to a Light Green Opaline hen. They also bred two Lutinos, but none of them showed any markings. It’s an Albino [red eye] I thought at first maybe a Lacewing, but I don’t think the markings are normal Lacewing. To me maybe they are Opaline. The wing markings don’t seem to be regular [all over the wing area] but stronger in some areas, I wondered maybe even a Saddle Back, as the markings are stronger on the top wing butts, then there is a gap clear of marks, then stronger again along the bottom of the wing & into the flights. Of course it maybe Spangle, but the markings don’t look like Spangle. There’s a slight chance it might be a Fallow of some kind, but I don’t think so myself. Its face spots are brown & cheek patches a sort of soft mauve. I think I’ll mate it back to its father when it’s old enough, to see if I can get some of both sexes. What do you think

I'm pretty sure it would be okay to tell us what the other guy said Marlony, especially if you just use your own words, you don't need to totaly quote him. It's your knowledge now you know. And would be interesting for us here.

Thanks for that site Ellulah, when I first came to this site I asked about yellows, which I knew when I was young & was only told about DEC & DF Spangles. I hope to get some of these older style yellows. There seems to be more of those type yellows over in the west. Al-Nasser's picture is of a grey yellow...maybe this bird is just a normal light yellow. I liked the complete yellow bird without wing marking.

My pleasure.

White Eyed-Lacewing ? i meant white eyed not red-eyed…Never heard of that one Marlony. Darkwing ? Here’s a site where someone in Australia sells them, I think I have to show the site, as if I used some of his pictures I could get in trouble. I hope to get some one day soon; they are one of the rarer varieties. http://users.tpg.com.au/users/kyorke/p28.htm Black Eyed Clear ? I think that is just another name for Dark Eyed Clears…DF Recessive Pieds. If you are asking me if you can use my answers here on some other site, that’s okay with me Marlony. Your keenness to learn & what you have learned already in a short time is admiral.

Yes the recessive hens cere is unchanged by its genetics, only the cocks. The hen’s cere can be like you say anything from white with a faint blue tinge, through light brown, to deep chocolate brown.

I don’t know if when you said Norm said to trim feathers around the bird’s vent, you meant me, as it was Macka suggested that. I have never trimmed any feathers & I think I have read on some expert sites in the UK that it’s not necessary. Daves birds aren’t the very heavy feathered type from what I can see, so he doesn’t need to worry. You have done the right thing Dave, being patient, as has been proven by your successful hatching. Some young pairs will have a few infertile eggs followed later in the batch by fertile ones. I don’t think it’s necessary also to remove the eggs even if they don’t hatch, I don’t bother candling my eggs at all, but off course you can do it. My thoughts are that it’s even better to leave them anyway, if they are infertile, as that’s normal. I find that Budgies are pretty self sufficient & after the time needed will even then eat their eggs & then lay another batch. I think that after laying the first batch it’s best for the hen to have this normal spell from laying. I of course remove any rotten eggs left after the babies have finished hatching.

Laurel Budgie ? …Dark Green. Royal Opaline ?…Never heard of that. Red Eyed-Lacewing ?…Lacewings are red eyed. continental clearflight ?…I think we just call them Clearflight here, they are called that in the UK. seafoam budgie ? That what they call Yellow Faced blues type 2…the breast has a lot of green bleed in the blue, so they call them seafoam. Scottish Fallow ?…There are a few Follows, that’s just one of them…there is also the German Follow…they are slightly different I think in some ways, but I don’t know the details.

I agree she is a fallow, but not dilute…fallow dilutes the colour anyway. The chances of the cock being split fallow are pretty rare, as fallows seem to be unpopular these days. I have a cock that looks the same colour as her, I have him paired to a Opaline violet hen, but haven’t had luck as yet, in one breeding cabinet she wouldn’t go in the nest, she laid some eggs on the floor, I moved her to another cabinet, then she spent months in the nest, no eggs gave her a rest. Now put her to breed again, looks like laying, but nothing yet, if she doesn’t do something soon will pair him up with something else. Also despite those painting calling those birds, Grey wing Cinnamons, I agree it can’t be possible.

Nice bird I wish I could find one like that over here. My first thought was Lacewing, but it doesn’t have that Ino look. I think I agree with Marlony DF Spangle Cinnamon. But could be one of the rare varieties, black-eyed yellows with Cinnamon markings, but the Cinnamon markings sure look like they are affected by Spangle.

Good news & good luck, let us know how it goes.

In most cases if you put a pair in the breeding cage & they are in condition, you will get eggs in 10 to 14 days. Sometimes birds will mate the day they are put together, so in that case mostly they need a minimum of 10 days for something to happen, but if they have been together some time & mating is happing often, I think you wont have to wait more than a few days. Usually you will see some swelling around the vent, under the tail, 2 or 3 days before the eggs arrives.

Yes like others say, be patient, I have broke an egg before thinking it was no good & found a live baby inside, it’s not a good feeling, especially if it’s your first batch & your waiting for some good news. I also have one crazy hen, most exit the nest as I lift the lid, but she runs in circles all over the eggs, all the time the nest is open eggs flying in all directions. My suggestion is if the hen is nervous just leave her be, most are pretty good at doing what needs to be done if left alone.

You could get any of the blue series young…sky blue, cobalt & maybe violet. Greys. Some Cinnamon hens, dominant pieds, Recessive pieds & clearflights. The cock maybe a clear flight, as I only can see a white tail, he doesn’t have clear flights, but he could still be genetically a Clearflight that hasn’t got the clear flights. DEC has recessive pied & Clearflight. I’m not totally sure but I think both the cinnamon & recessive pieds have a 25% chance & any other recessive character they are masking.

Yes I agree...a fallow. Good luck with her.

Thanks for that advise Kaz...Someone mentioned clicking on the tree symbol before & I thought after looking where's the B*****!!! tree...that was clear, now I see tree. I make all my pics 150 pixels so hope they are well within the limits & I think they still look okay.

Yeah Una…there’s some nice birds over in WA I’d like sent my way too…(Laughing out loud).

okay…heres a picture of me…the old bushie. I haven’t worked out how to post the picture direct into here; I thought we were supposed to do it via photobucket anyway. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/Norm.jpg ***Norm.....If you have photos on photbucket that are the correct size for this forum ( 450 by 450 or less ) you copy the top line under the photo and then while typing your reply...click on the "tree symbol" in the reply box and paste the link to your photo there. Say okay and if you want to check that it all worked...do a preview post. PS nice to see your face.

Your right Feathers, it probably depends on the breeder, what the birds are like. The British type [show type] birds I have, have come from pet shops, so may be breeders, not so good birds & also often because they mostly don’t have rings, they may be very old birds. I just noticed after putting down one of my young males, that I bred from very lazy type parents, which may have come from different sources, is just as active as any of my birds, now that he has settled in the breeding cabinet. It may be the vigour of the young, or that he has been outcrossed & the out cross has given him his vigour. Actually from one pair of birds that I would call show type, the young I have bred are some of my most active & healthy looking birds.

Keetcrazy…her large Poops, will last as long as the bird is breeding, they are caused by the bird spending large amounts of it’s time in the nest, where she won’t defecate. The are saved up & released when she comes off the nest. The babies defecate in the nest, but normally the mother wont. The most normal batch of eggs is probably 6, so she may lay more sometime even more than the 6.

Good one Kaz …Congratulations, I’m also looking forward to the pictures. Yes you should give Custard a go, from his pics looks like a nice bird to me. Also re Clearwing from pet shop, shows you must have a good eye for good birds, I also don’t worry where I see a bird that looks good or exceptional to me, pet shop or elsewhere I grab it & take the chance.

Thanks guys I think they look nice too, hope they grow up to breed some nice birds. As for the black cere, that was also a thought that I had that it may be something similar or connected to their black beak when young.

Ellulah Mature Budgie Group: Members Posts: 187 Joined: January 6, 2007 Member No.: 3,070 Country: Australia City/Town: Canberra Gender: Female Breeder: Yes Show Breeder: No # budgies kept: 9 . I hope you don’t mind me quoting you Ellulah…I couldn’t see where you got the quote from so decided to start a new post. Exhibition verus wild type budgies or so-called pet birds on the point of which is healthiest & more vigorous. …I used to show budgies years ago & have seen the local club shows scene of later years & now just prefer to breed budgies for pleasure & to make breeding healthy vigorous birds my priority. It’s very hard to select for multiple traits at one time & to succeed. If it means keeping a bird with ideal show type attributes, health will sometime be neglected. I have some British show type budgies & a few seem very healthy, lay large clutches of fertile eggs [up to 8] & have had them all hatch, needing some of them to be fostered. But I have lots of others, which have problems like when they are in the aviary & are startled, birds usually fly to the top perches, but some of the other show types can’t fly more than one metre & then crawl up the wire. Also in the breeding cabinets, they just sit most of the day, whereas other type birds will fly back & forth on their perches, taking exercise, as they are so healthy, they can’t stay still. To me this is the true nature of Budgies. Also especially some of the males I have seen even on the first or second batch of young start to fluff up & look very unhappy, some even die. Where as other birds less “highly bred” can raise four or even more without any ill effects. I have one pair of nice looking show type birds that have had one baby hatch first batch, then three the next, then one, because they had it so easy, I let them have another batch, but all eggs are clear. I have seen top British expert breeders talk of letting their birds have up to four batches. Rob Marshall recommends only letting “present day birds’ have no more than two batches. Looking back through earlier post on this site, I noticed Nerwen questioning whether she wanted to go to the show type birds & whether they were as healthy, but I notice now she has gone for the show birds too. I hope I wont stir up trouble with my thoughts…hope to hear what others think.

A very interesting bird & very puzzling, there is no clue from it’s parents, as it must be a recessive, both parent must posses the trait for it to be shown. Unless it's a new mutation. It doesn’t look like a fallow, as others have said, as in my experience fallows wash out the blue & the black stripes on the head. I guess the fact that it’s some type of pied confuses the issue. If you were interested in genetics, if I were you I would mate it to it’s mother, then you should get birds similar to it, of both sexes, then you could out mate these to unrelated birds & establish the colour.

I’d like to share one of my latest batches of youngsters, they are just ready to leave the nest & wouldn’t smile for the camera, so I had to hold them. In each case I have shown a front & back picture, to show the wing markings & breast colour. Some how I missed a front on one of them, I will say which one when we come to it. The mother of the batch is a beautiful [not in show terms, just in health & vigour] Opaline Grey wing Sky blue, I saw her in a pet shop a short while ago & she just caught me eye & I needed a blue hen, as didn’t have enough, I wanted to pair her with one of my spangles to get some blue spangles, I only had one I bought, but since I have breed some. She was so keen to bred. Sorry no picture at this time. I paired her with this cock, which I think from help on this forum I have worked out is an YF2 Par blue Spangle [i thought he was just normal, but from babies I have learnt he is also Greying too]. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/gr...6666/father.jpg Baby No. 1 Back & Front. I think an Opaline, Spangle, Cobalt. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/1.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/2.jpg Sorry about the shadow. Baby No.2 Back & Front. I think YF2 Opaline, Spangle, Grey wing, Cobalt http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/3.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/4.jpg Baby No. 3 Back & Front. I think YF2 Spangle, Grey wing, Cobalt. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/5.jpg Look at this babies cere, I don’t know if the picture is clear enough, but it’s cere is almost black, it looks healthy…has anyone had this experience? http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/6.jpg Baby No. 4 Only back, somehow missed front shot. I think YF2 Spangle Grey wing, Cobalt. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/7.jpg Baby No. 5 Another YF2 Spangle Grey wing, Cobalt. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/8.jpg http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/greenie6666/9.jpg