Norm

I have notice that he “pet” Australian type Budgie tends to have better clear base colour triangles between the wing butts, but in general the British “show type” Budgies have lots of strong baring…selection for this trait must not have been so strict.

Libby your Cinnamon Green [Yellow] Fallow hen is also Opaline [pattern] wing markings, that's one reason why it looks different. Nice looking bird.

I think that’s the fascination with breeding to me, each new birth is totally new individual & you never can tell in reality what it will be like…mutation…whether it’s an improvement on Mum & Dad. I breed Guinea Pigs also, mainly to take care of the weeds from my garden…to convert it to more manure…but they have such amazing colour patterns & each one is different…very interesting stuff.

Some of your young birds have developed into nice looking birds Dave. Your aviary is in a nice setting, but do you have any trouble with wind, with no side of the aviary being solid & also that door looks a bit scary without a safety door…looks quite large …no close calls yet? [Escapees] … As to the Dominant & Recessive Pied factor…I think when you get very heavily Pied birds of both types it gets hard. Of course with males, if it has a nice clear Blue cere not fleshy coloured, you know it’s Dominant. But sometimes harder with the hens, the Plum eye colour isn’t always easy to see, but I think that Recessive have more strange coloured feathers especially on the wing & around the head than Dominants. Dominants have clearer Pied markings on the wings, whereas Recessives have some coloured feathers with what I call strange effects, dotted through the Pied. In other words Dominants seem, if they have coloured feathers they look more like Normal feathers, whereas Recessive Pied seems to have some effect on remaining coloured feathers…hope that makes sense…

Chicks are looking well Kaz & a few light skins, maybe TCB’s…I have had what I think are big improvements in crossing English type birds to my other birds, there seems to be a big improvement, whether that will continue in future generations remains to be seen.

Sounds good to me, I hope it all works out...good luck.

Those chicks look nice Pie...

Yes Dave that would be the only way to check. I have a TCB cock that I bought, I thought he just had pale wing markings [a fault] but he produced a hen chick that looks definitely Cinnamon, but only one so far, so I'm beginning to wonder. Usually if he was Cinnamon all his hens would be Cinnamon, but he is a Normal split for Opaline & has produced a lot of Opaline hens & Lutinos of which he is also split.

Look nice birds Lonebudgie…good luck.

Dave…if the Fallow isn’t split for Recessive Pied & the Recessive isn’t split for Fallow you will get birds with normal wing patterns & all birds will be split for Fallow & Recessive Pied. So about 50% YF2 & 50% white faced Blues, unless they are both split for some other Recessive Mutations, or the cock split for Sexed link Mutations. Dave are you sure the Fallow is Cinnamon, as Fallow makes the wing markings Brown?

Kaz, it may take a little longer to produce the desired show type birds if you breed them to other than show type birds, but with patience it can happen & that’s what it is all about I think the ART of breeding. I think that some pet type Budgies have characteristics that are desirable in show birds. I have already notice what I call improvements in birds that I have bred this year, still a long way from show, but it feels good to see what I have done & to me it’s more important than winning at shows. Especially with some of the rares that I have started out with there is no other way, as you are limited with what you can get to start off with. Thanks Dave, nice to know someone is interested, will get some more pictures when they have been through their moult, some I think look like they will be quite good looking, plus six more chicks on the way.

Birds seem to have a memory of others, as I have had pairs that return to earlier partners if later placed in the same aviary. I also notice that many siblings seem to remain together for months after leaving their nest & are great friends, which leads me to think that this must happen also in nature, so I would think that more inbreeding must happen than we would think. What you are talking about is human moral codes & animals in nature don't have such things, once animals or birds reach maturity they are just male & females & do what comes naturally. If it worries you or is not what you want it's up to you to remove them from each other. In nature many herd or pack animals allow females to remain in the group, where as the dominant male, [their father in most cases] drives off males at maturity, so they must be mated by their fathers until he is later replaced by another stronger male. This happens in animals such as Gorillas, Elephants, Lions & even Kangaroos.

Usually Budgies suffer with panting, holding their wings out etc with heat, but mostly they cope with it, of course if there is some other underlying condition, heat may finish them off. I would just be careful with the amount of spray you give them, as if it wets the floor area too much & this remains wet for any length of time this is very dangerous for spreading or breading problems.

Timbo, from my experience, those two look more like the ones that don't grow back their flights. But it's hard to say, as most of the cases I have had have grown back. Some drop their feathers & almost immediately grow what appear like normal flights & appear normal from then on, but some keep growing distaughted feathers two or three times before getting more normal feathers. I guess it depends on the extent of damage done be the virus, some bird seem much more prone to it than others, as you can have normal chicks & damaged ones in the same nest. If you read on the net articles from research scientists, they say that most birds become immune in under 12 months, but a few remain carriers, whether the ones that don't ever grow back normal feathers have a more chance to be carriers or not, is hard to know. Once you have had one case it will probably spread, that has been my experience, but I have just learnt to live with it, as most pairs still produce normal chicks, some breeders use various virus sprays, but I have choose not to do that.

Some times hidden genes can be fun anyway Dave, sometimes you get something you least expect. Like when I mated a Green Spangle with a Green Opaline, both of which I had bought & had no idea what they carried. I got Lutino’s, Blues & the biggest surprise was a hen Lacewing, which I really like, but so far I can’t get her to go down on eggs.

Such a romantic story Kaz…(Laughing out loud)…the roughian & the showgirl…no seriously good to improve your TCB stock never know, I might need some new TCB blood one day. Do you know if Curry is split for Opaline? As I think the TCB mutation looks good in the Opaline series. Looking out for some nice hen TCB's & split cocks. I spotted what I think is a TCB in the pet shop yesterday, it's a Cinnamon Grey, but it's flight primaries are faded, so of course I bought it, not sure yet if it's a hen or cock. Never seen any signs of TCB's around here in pet shops. I don't have any Blue series TCB's which I hope to rectify soon, with my breeding program. This round my TCB to TCB pair didn't go down, hen maybe moulting, but even though one of the other pairs only hatched one chick out of 10 eggs it turned out to be a TCB hen & now one of the other eggs hatched & was fostered, so I still have the chance of another. The other pair who only had one TCB hen first batch, has made up for things with 5 TCB hens & one Normal. PS. Curry aint that Rough anyway, I like him.

If your hen Sherbet, is in fact a Clearwing, without seeing the wing & back pattern it’s hard to tell. Clearwing is Recessive & unless the cock is split for it, you will get no Clearwing chicks. Without knowing the genetics of these bird, just on their actual colouring, you will probably only get Green Normal chick like Dad. All chicks will be split for Clearwing. Sunshine & Hugo…if Sunshine is not split for Blue, all chicks will be Green, about 50% Pied. Sunshine is masking some Mutation, so what ever that is may influence their chicks & then there is any Recessives they may both be carrying & Sex linked colours Hugo may be split for. Sunshine & Romeo…same as with Hugo…if Sunshine is not split for Blue all chicks will be Green. If Romeo is only split for Cinnamon [can’t tell from picture] when you say carrying I presume you mean split, they will have some Cinnamon hens, unless Sunshine is in fact masking Cinnamon, in that case you could get both sexes. It’s very hard making predictions for birds just on their visible colour & mutation & even harder when one is either an Albion or Lutino.

I think your problem is feather plucking, as in the case of French moult it’s usually the primary flight feathers that fall out, also I think I notice some red marks on some of their bodies. Once they start that it seems to go from bad to worse, my advice would be to remove the chicks onto the floor of the cage. It would be good to provide some form of shelter in the corner, so that if other birds attack them, before they are good at protecting themselves, they have somewhere to hide. You could provide something like Kaz’s igloo type, from an ice cream container or I place a large concrete brick on its side that is hollow so that they can retreat inside for protection. The fact that I see red marks, suggests that it may proceed to actual attacks. In these cases often the parents may stop feeding them also, but with some struggle I have had most survive. Once birds have started feather plucking, mostly it will happen again with further batches, so you will need to watch out for it, if you breed this hen again, it usually happens at this stage of feathering. The younger ones could be fostered if you have other batches. Often it can be the cock that does it also.

Looking real nice Pie, you should be happy.

I got a surprise with one of my batches yesterday, it was one of my TCB pairs, she had only hatched one chick out of 10 eggs, so a week ago I had placed two older chicks with her, as their batch had too many young. I had left all the eggs in case one still hatched, the eggs looked real dirty & I didn’t expect that to happen when on checking yesterday, I found a newly hatched chick it had been fed, but all the other chicks had feathers, so I removed it to another nest who’s eggs hadn’t hatched. So you can never tell. I have transferred eggs at all stages, especially in cases where hens have got ill & stopped sitting, some have hatched other haven’t.

It looks like the Dominant Pied is the cock & the Cinnamon the hen. If the hen is split for Blue you could get both Green & Blue babies, if not all chicks would be Green, but being split for Blue is pretty common, you should get lots of Pieds, but maybe not as much pied on them as Dad, all male chicks will be split for Cinnamon. If Dad is carrying Cinnamon you could get some Cinnamons also, in that case of both sexes. That’s about all you can tell from just looking at the parents, but they could be carrying Recessive factors, so also there could be some surprises…good luck.

I don't think placing the eggshell with the baby is necessary, I have never done that & had lots of success, in most cases the original mother has already eaten it anyway. I don't' think that hens "think" like us "oh a baby has hatched" I think it's just a natural instinct or response to the presence of the chick, it's more like a chemical reaction…chick present so feed…that's if she is a good type Mum. I also think that the risks of leaving the eggs where they are & moving it to a foster Mum are similar. In your case you only have one chick in the original nest, so it might not be too bad, but I have found there is a great risk to late eggs in large nests, as they often get fouled by droppings & rolled around that much that they go rotten [addle] anyway & then in others they hatch successfully & are even fed & raised even if there are 7 or 8 chicks before them & then in other cases they just die, either from lack of food or being jostled by the larger chicks.

I have some birds that look a bit like that…like Kaz & others have said it’s not French Moult, if it only occurred recently it might be a fight as others have suggested, but my birds were feather plucked in the nest & even after months still look like this, I think what is happening is that some of the feathers were bitten off & their base is still left, so this wont correct it’s self till the birds loose those feathers at the next moult & are replaced.

I agree with Kaz, just relax & let nature take it’s course…most of the things you describe are just normal Budgie behaviour…& with mating they are together 24/7 it’s sort of rare even when you have large numbers of birds to see the actual mating & still you get fertile eggs in most cases.

I think most seeding grasses are safe just be careful they don’t come from areas where they can become contaminated, by traffic fumes, dogs etc…the main problem with recommending weeds is that they are called by different names in different places & by different people, so mistakes can easily be made. I feed a common weed in my area, that’s called Farmers Friend, as it’s very common here & the birds seem to love it, I read recently that humans can eat it safely too, on a site recommending edible plants. Milk thistles are also safe if you know what they are.