Norm

I think we better leave you there to keep you out of trouble… :(Laughing out loud):

I don’t think he’s a Grey Green, as Grey Greens should have a Grey check patch & his is Blue. He could be an Olive, but as I said he looks very similar to the birds I have that they are calling Dusks…some of the young I have in the nest from my Dusks, that are feathering up just look like Grey Greens at this stage, two Blue series young also looked much like Violets, but sadly the two oldest ones have already died, as one fell from the nest early & was bitten in the head by another bird, the other died shortly after being put in the aviary. His colour especially looks good in the first picture, extremely deep colour.

Nice pair Kaz, yes you should get at least some without flecking. Any with flecking you don’t want you can send to me…(Laughing out loud).

Nice looking birds Ravengypsy...Zeus looks similar to my Dusks.

Elly is right the hen is a Sky Blue Recessive Pied, the cock may be a Green Spangle or a Dilute, but as Elly says there isn’t enough of the wing pattern to be sure.

For some reason I can only see pictures of your birds, not a picture of your cage. Often Budgies will breed in even cages that are too small for them, but this might be the reason that your bird got fat & then died, as to be healthy they need to exercise. Your Budgies both look healthy from those pictures, but some pairs will just not breed & often it’s very difficult to understand why. Certainly a cage in which they can get the right exercise would be a good start.

If it only happened, are you sure that he wasn't bitten by another bird during a fight? You could bath its foot with salt dissolved in water it may help. It wouldn't be normal to have blood if it was arthritis.

Looking good Kaz.

Your young are coming on well.

I agree with the others you wont have much success with the cabinets in an aviary, but it would be wise to have the cabinets in an enclosed area, otherwise you might loose birds if they escape from the cages while feeding or in other ways. Your birds look really nice good luck with them.

I’d like to add my thanks to all that make this forum possible. I can’t really remember how I found the site, but it has given me lots of pleasure being helped with problems & sharing my experience with others. It’s great that I can just go to my computer & share problems or pleasure with others who have similar interests. Keep up the good work.

Yes Dave the Albino Gene can mask any other gene.

Welcome to the forum Kristin.

I have found on many occasions...THEY WONT BREED...or produce infertile eggs...(Laughing out loud)... :(Laughing out loud):

Great news I hope he continues to improve.

I agree with most of what Kaz says, as I had similar experiences, I’m not sure about the nutritional part, definitely different birds feed better than others, so it may have some effect, like the batches she mentions, where the fostered ones in two different nests turned out with & without, certainly seems to point to nutrition, but it could be the effects of exposure, where the virus was in one nest & not the other. But I’m more inclined to think that why you get some with FM & others without it is something to do with genetic susceptibility. I have had one bird in a batch without it & in others only one got it & all the others were okay & variation where a few got it & all the others were normal. The reason I think that they loose feathers just before leaving the nest or on leaving is I think because the feather shafts are weakened & it’s only after they start to try to fly [practice with their wings] that the feathers fail & fall out. Reading what the experts say about it, they think it’s most likely that it happens in the egg, but if half of a batch of eggs hatch as Kaz states & get it & the other half don’t it doesn’t seem like it was already in the egg. It seems that birds are mostly susceptible very early in life, I have had a few birds that had already been in the aviary for a week or two & then lost some wing & tail feathers, but that’s the only time I’ve noticed any susceptibility to it in older birds. In these older birds the effect was very slight. Timbo as to whether you are stuck with it of not, that’s a difficult question to answer, experts say if you get cases of it, it’s best to stop breeding for something like 12 months, then most birds will have become immune to it. In my opinion you would have to be very patient to do that if you’re a type that likes breeding birds & even then there is the case of the few that could remain carriers. It seems to be endemic in Budgerigars, so to me the chances of avoiding it forever seems a bit remote, so I’m just continuing to breed, noting which pairs produce it & trying to select birds that hopefully will eventually be immune to it. Whether this will work or not remains to be seen. As I mentioned earlier in this post I have bred with a bird that I think had it when young & she has had no cases. I feel that birds that even have it & then recover quickly must have some immunity, so I’m not removing them from my breeding, but others that don’t recover, will be left out of my breeding. I think I read the other day on this forum where some breeder bred from a FM & produced many show winners, but whether this bird had recovered or was still flightless it didn’t say. As Kaz said young birds in the aviary don’t appear to infect older birds, but again according to the experts all birds will be effected, but then mostly become immune, it seems to me that if they become exposed while young & sometime before they are bred with, could be a good idea. As Kaz says the really badly effected birds that are even as bad as the one in her picture seem to be completely healthy in other ways & they seem to enjoy their life in the aviary quite well. I don’t even supply ladders for them, but they soon learn to quickly climb the wire to the perches & bail out from the perches when they want to return to the ground to feed with a plop, which appears to have no effect on them.

Sorry to hear that news Kaz, sadly from what I have seen with my few birds, there’s lots of feather quality issues in English type Budgies, most mutations are deleterious in some way from the normal bird. The buff gene seems to have lots of minor issues, which accumulate in those feather dusters.

I thought my life was busy, but I wonder how you cram everything you do in Kaz, especially after the amount of time you give to this forum.

They say it spreads from dust from feathers. In my case I had started out with Budgies again & was buying in new birds, that didn't have any signs of it, but maybe some could have been carriers. The first case I had was with one pair that I had already had two batches of young, with no problems at all, then on their third batch the last chick to leave the nest dropped it's tail & wing flights, but quickly grew them back & looked normal. This year I have bred a couple of batches from this hen; none of her chicks had any problems. Then I had a full nest of young with FM from a sister of this bird, I tried a second batch & had the same problem, so I stopped breeding with them. Then slowly I got some other nests with one or two FM's. In the same building where this batch occurred. In my other aviary complex about 200 metres down the hill, where the first one appeared the year before, I had no problems until just of late I have now started getting a couple of nest with FM. So it's hard to know how it spreads, it may have spread by me moving between the different areas, but why it took months to do it I don't know. Definitely some birds are more prone to it than others.

I did a Google search for BSSA one of the first things I came up with that could be connected was the Biological Society of South Australia. It looks like they are based at the University…looks like they do field work on wild life…I just had the thought that maybe it’s not even a Budgie ring, but maybe some wild bird was rung with it & someone found it & used it on a Budgie…maybe a long shot, but could be possible. Then looked further & found a more possible site the Budgerigar society of south Australia… bssainc@yahoo.com.au try that. That thought crossed my mind Kaz, about how good the ring looked.

What you describe sounds like some of the old birds that I have been given, as the breeders thought there was no chance of getting young & so far they have been right. Some of my older birds are even interested in hens, but they are only 6 or 7 years old. But others like you say just sit around eating food. If he really is 14 I guess the chances are pretty slim, although he certainly looks good. Trying him in a cabinet with a good hen might be worth it. Re finding out about him, first we would have to find out what the BSSA stands for.

Are you sure that his wing is damaged as sick birds often loose the power of flight & are found on the floor of the aviary.

It certainly looks like a 94 ring Liv, of course people can always use an old ring again on a young bird, so it could be that. If he was the original bird & is 14 he certainly looks good, it would be interesting to try & trace where he came from & if his age is true…if it is & you could get him to breed I for one would be interested in one of his young ones, as breeding birds that could live to a ripe old age & still look healthy would be a great thing. Really good close up pix Liv...

In your case where you have only two birds I think it would be easier if you could locate some prepared egg & biscuit, as then you could moisten a small amount each day to try with your birds, as often birds given a new produce will ignore it at first & you have to persist for some time before they start to eat it on a regular basis. Having said that the home made product I think is far better for your birds because of it’s freshness & you control it’s ingredient. Because you are in the UK things we recommend may not be available, but this is a simple recipe To one hard-boiled egg, crushed finely, add on Arrowroot biscuit also crushed one Shredded Wheatmeal Biscuit also crushed. Hope these are available there. And a small amount of Wholemeal bread crumbs. Then you can also add some crushed eggs shell as others have said & other ingredient, like corn nibblets. The mixture should be slightly moistened, but be careful as they don’t like it too dry or too wet, just a nice crumbly state. As you will notice, that for only two birds this smallest recipe using just one egg will give you far too much for two birds to eat, it is best fed on the day it is made, but could be kept for a day or two in the frig, but maybe the rest should be fed to another pet if you have it & made fresh daily.

Mostly I haven’t had too many problems with infertile eggs in the first batch, but found in quite a few cases that in subsequent batches…second or third, their eggs were completely infertile as they wouldn't leave the nest after having a fully fertile first batch & even locking them out of the nest for a few days didn’t help.