Maureena

Hiya I was using the brand Prime vitamins powder with probiotics, but one of the avian vet's I go to said she didn't like it, mainly because of the citrus smell. I think she based her opinion solely on that. Anyway I read a very good article about megabac and probiotics and they mentioned Prime so I took another look at it and sure enough it has probiotics. So I did like the article suggested and put some in a salt shaker with a few grains of rice to prevent it from clumping and I sprinkle liberally onto some veggies. Then after a couple weeks the article suggested to do it less often. I am giving that a try. By The Way, Jada looks so much better. He wasn't fluffed last night or this morning. I weighed him again and he's 29 g and I noticed Berdie feeding him last night. It looked like he was nibbling on some seed by himself but I'm not sure he's eating on his own yet. I also put Zupreem pellets in my birds dishes along with their seed. I have complied with my vet's request to use Budgie Builder and Sunshine factor. But I don't like the sunshine factor because it is oil based and very hard to mix in with food. Another avian vet said I should be using Prime. Vets...geesh. The different avian vets I have gone to all have their own different preferences on which supplements to give and what diets to provide. The only thing a person can do is read everything they can find and make their own decisions based on research. Parus major - I'm really happy you may be able to get megabac-s.

Hi Both of your responses are very helpful to me, especially for emotional support. This is an extremely difficult thing to go through as you both know, and knowing that I am not alone out there battling this is very heartwarming. It's breaking my heart not to be at home right now being able to check up on Jada and Berdie. Berdie is definitely mine and Jada's little angel. I watched her process all evening, her trips back and forth between eating and feeding Jada. I cried because she could accomplish what I could not, that she knew what had to be done and it just left me in awe of nature. Thank you both for sharing your experiences and for your advice. Maureena

Oh thank you, you are a sweetheart. I appreciate your well wishes. I think the medicine had worked and I did it for 10 days as it indicates but apparently that was not enough for him. Jada was also flying around, his old self again but I guess he is more susceptible to this while the others are not affected. I read an article lately that indicates prolonging the treatment for a long time, maybe even months or more or their lifetime. I am hoping between the medication, Berdie's help keeping him fed when he won't eat, keeping them separated from the rest, that we can get him better. Like you, I stay awake at night listening and worrying, I worry while I am away at work and cannot check on him. I worry about the other birds and I question everything that I do. I torment myself. I have read more than I care to on the subject and yet, there's not enough information for me.

Jada has had a relapse, and a bad one. We are definitely in a fight now to save him. He had stopped eating. We got some baby bird food with enzymes to make a slurry to feed him by syringe but he just wouldn't take it. He went down to 26 grams by last night. We were contemplating rushing off to the vet to see if they would crop feed him but we decided to put Berdie in with him to see if she would feed him. She and Jada are a bonded pair. Berdie obviosuly knew what needed to be done and she immediately set to work feeding him. She was very aggressive about it and she kept rapping his beak and bringing up her foot and pushing at him to feed. By this morning Jada is up to 29 grams. I believe it was a mistake to have isolated her from him and since everyone had been exposed to this, it is better to have them together. After this, I won't be able to put Jada and Berdie with the other birds any more. It is too much of a risk to Jada. Everyone is separated by two's or threes in cages now. I may even get rid of the aviary altogether. While no one else appears sick in any way, I watch them very closely. I think I will keep them separated this way and treat each cage set of birds at a time with megabac-s orally until I can get them all completed and then tested before I ever think of putting them all back together again into a new aviary. Maureena

OMG they sure are cute and cozy!!!

Hi again, I'm sorry to hear it isn't available in Finland but does that mean that you can't order it from another country and have it mailed to you? I was able to order mine from E & R Exotic Birds and Supplies in Toronto. Maybe you could inquire if they could ship it to you? Or perhaps somewhere in Europe you could order it? I'm not sure what the import rules are for something like this, but they consider it a "supplement" here and thus are able to import it. But maybe it would be worth the inquiry? It's good that they haven't lost weight. I hope that you get the help that you need very soon. Maureena

Hi AGY and megabacteria are the same thing. AGY is the newer name for megabacteria. They changed the name as it was originally thought to be a bacteria but it is a fungus. Here are a couple of sites with some information on symptoms and diagnosis. http://www.talltree.net/birds/megabacteria.html http://www.tri-statebudgie.org/megabac%20final.html I had one budgie die from this and the vet sent his body away for a necropsy (which is a bird autopsy) on him and the result was AGY/megabacteria. Because of this information, I keep Megabac-S on hand and treat my birds with it in their drinking water. I am not an expert on this so I can't tell you what to do, but I would definitely recommend another avian vet visit and perhaps they can diagnose this through a crop wash or fecal test.

eeek, (Laughing out loud), like I said before...not the toes...anything but the toes. I'd be off screaming.

Hopefully, some other members can tell you what they did to get their budgies to eat veggies. I don't feed mine carrots as they didn't seem to like them. Just like people, they have different tastes.

Hi Xsaga, sorry I hadn't seen your reply to my post. Thanks for your advice. For Jada, he gets a stronger oral mix of megabac-s which I give to him orally. At the same time, all the other budiges are getting treated through their drinking water. I was giving veggies, and have since bought a salad spinner and I rinse my veggies and then spin them until my arms want to fall off. There is no moisture left on the veggies. But having said that, I will take that into consideration for the next treatment time. This treatment is almost over so there isn't much point, but I will be treating again in the near future and I think I will remove their veggies at that time. As for Jada, he is very much improved and is back with the other budgies. He is not getting the strong oral dosage now but is receiving the same as the others. He had gone down to 29 grams over the course of a few days of the illness, but has returned to his normal 33 grams. Regardless, I am watching them all very closely. I think I get nervous at the slightest twitch.

Dark green leafy vegetables are best for nutrition. Just keep giving them a dish of fresh veggies every day until they start to eat. Once one of them gets brave enough to try it, they all will. I feed mine parsley, kayle and broccoli fresh daily. It took a little while but mine finally took to veggies. I even used a plastic toy budgie which I pretended was eating the veggies, and my guys fell for it. Just be persistent and don't stop feeding them veggies.

Hi and welcome. It's a great site.

I'm sorry, I can't believe no one responded to your questions. It must have been overlooked, sometimes there are so many posts it's hard to keep up. It's not always easy to diagnos megabacteria/avian gastric yeast. Some symptoms mimic megabacteria symptoms. The only real way to know for sure is in a necropsy. I think you can test feces but it's not always accurate, I read you can have false negatives. I don't have a large amount of experience with it, but I have lost one bird but I didn't have him in my house more than 12 days, he was already very sick...but I just didn't know it. His keel was very prominent, meaning that he was very underweight and his keel bone was protruding. There should be a layer of subcutaneous fat over their chest. I have read that they look like they are eating but they are not actually ingesting anything. They just grind things to a powder. They look like they are gorging on food because they are actually starving to death and are very hungry. They just can't digest food once the disease has progressed without treatment. I can tell you my Cleo's symptoms were vomiting (he had it smeared on his face and body), he was extremely thin, he tried to eat, he was puffed up, and was very irritable around other birds. Also the colour of their feces are very dark, almost tarry. There are also two kinds of megabacteria, and one is acute and the bird can show symptoms and be gone within 48 hours, and the other chronic in which the bird emaciates over time, wasting away. I hope I at least came close to helping with your question, thanks, Maureena

Oh no, I have to pay for it. They are just making darn sure I'm going to go do it, which is fine by me! I'd rather a pet store be concerned than just hand over the bird. I think it's more of a contract stating the bird left there in good health and they are not responsible if I didn't take the bird to the vet within the required time period. I think it's just a liability issue.

Hi Lovey. Were you trying to do a poll? It doesn't appear to be that. My budgies were purchased at Pisces Pet Emporium here in Calgary and they make you sign a contract that ensures that you will take them for a vet exam within a week or so (I forget the exact time limit). Which, of course, I did. I wouldn't buy birds from anywhere else in Calgary.

Thank you Daz for your information. While both my avian vets have no problem with using apple cider vinegar, there is only one proven method for curing megabacteria and that is oral treatment with amphotericin, an antifungal drug. Oranges and apple cider vinegar may help supress symptoms and I also had been giving them apple cider vinegar, but it does not get rid of the fungus. Also scrupulous attention to hygiene cannot be stressed enough. I am sure that I will continue with the apple cider vinegar and citric fruits but clearly this is not enough in my situation. Maureena

Thanks Lovey, will do!

Thank you Karen for all your good thoughts...I can certainly use them! :-)

Hi everyone I've had Avian Gastric Yeast/megabacteria strike once again within my little aviary...this time it's my Jada that has shown symptoms. I had treated everyone with megabac-s after Cleo died and disinfected a number of times. I noticed his symptoms late morning Sunday and we went to the vet immediately on Sunday and I was told I was doing everything right, having started once again with megabac-s and have ordered a large supply to have on hand. I also had been using apple cider vinegar in their water. Ironically, I was to the avian vets the day before with another one of mine for a toenail and beak trim and checkup and ran through everything I was doing and was told I was doing everything right as far as husbandry. Sunday and Monday Jada was fluffed, his feces were very dark, and he was spraying/vomiting seed around. It didn't look good and we started him on treatment even before we took him to emergency. So we were sent home with the okay to keep going and in fact, I have a slightly higher dosage that I give Jada orally just to make sure that he's getting the medicine as I never know when or if he's going to take a drink of his water. It's now Tuesday evening, and Jada has much improved. He's in his hospital cage with a heating pad underneath. He is no longer fluffed and his feces appear on the way to a more normal colour. I am giving him rantitadine (not sure how it's spelled now...think that's right) every 12 hours which is like an antacid. He has lost 2 grams since this all began and I'm monitoring him very closely. He is eating on his own, eating his veggies, his apple and seed. He is very bright, alert and wanting to get out with the other birds, so it looks very positive. With Jada, I have a good chance as he was strong and healthy until he showed the first symptoms. I was not so lucky with Cleo as he was ill before we even got him from the Humane Society. He was well advanced in the disease by the time we brought him home. Anyway, on with the battle and I certainly intend to win this one! I am not going to lose another budgie!

(Laughing out loud), maybe he was kicked off! The other bird doesn't look so innocent.... :glare: I can just hear him whistling now....hmmm, hmmm, I didn't do anything..... Actually, Jada is pretty saucy and he picks on Bluie frequently...three of my birds all chase Bluie so no, he isn't so innocent and probably did chase Bluie off the window box. They go out of their way to follow him especially if he's doing something interesting or if he's doing something new. It just drives them crazy because Bluie isn't afraid of new things...he will try new foods right out of my fingers or new toys and new games...and once they see he has something they don't..look out.

Great!!

impatiently tapping fingers on desk while I wait...tap tap tap

I prepare all my food fresh in the morning before I leave for work. Daily my guys get broccoli, parlsey, and kayle. For fruit they like apple and occasionally some pineapple. They prefer to eat their fruit when they are out flying about and I stick pieces of apple through their aviary.

funny...those are great pics! Can't wait for part 2!

Oh gawd, that'd be funny seeing that.