**KAZ**

People with large aviaries are not the people you need advice from as ours are aviary birds and you need advice re a tamed bird. Please be more patient when waiting for advice.

This is incorrect information for quarantine procedures and certainly not what you should be listening to. When stressed a disease thats carried and not showing symptoms comes out. Stress is........ being caught being sold being moved new home new food new friends new relationships to sort out, new home and breeding

You have posted no picture. Click on the how to post a picture in my signature and follow those instructions. I have also removed your double posted topic on this.

Eggs usually a week to ten days after you see them actively mating so ............yes....be patient

BB2..................How old are your budgies please ?

Hi Meg and welcome Check out our FAQ section for some extra info, especially about quarantining new birds you buy. Also make sure you have no nestboxes where any underaged budgies are...........any under 12 months. Cheers Kaz PS you can use the link in my signature on how to post pictures and maybe we can see some of your birds ? PPS GERALDTON EH ??? I grew up in Geraldton and my niece and nephew, brother and sister in law still live there.

Post a photo, a clear photo of the cere, taken with no flash used on the camera. There is a link in my signature on how to post pictures

Nest checks reveal three pinkies hatched while I was away. One died....no food in crop and yellowbelly. The other two are plum eyed chicks in a greywing nest and that means two foster eggs have hatched.....from one of my best grey/cinnamon spangles and his cinnamon sky hen. Other eggs of theirs that were fostered were eaten by a silly foster mother. Currently working on the parrot aviary so we can get them in it by mid afternoon or sooner.

Last of the birds moved today..............I caught all my husbands Princess parrots, finches and quails today amidst a rainstorm..........got soaked and bitten, but caged them up and they travelled to the new house. Got here in the dark so they are all still in the car for the night and will go into their aviary tomorrow.

Before the 16 mm perches came in and when I was building my aviary at the house we just sold, I made most of the perches in the aviary 16mm dowell. One thing I noticed was the birds did have a tendency to use them in a platform like fashion. They had a tendency to mostly perch three toes forward and not the two toes forward and two back. Luckily I also had varying perches sizes within the aviary in other places.

Bob Wilson is originally from Kyabram Splat............your neck of the woods

Article by Kind permission of Bob Wilson USA Beginners Guide To Breeding Best In Show A Beginners Guide To Breeding Best In Show. By Bob Wilson From the day most budgerigar breeders attend their first show thoughts and efforts usually focus on the million dollar question “How do I breed a bird worthy of winning the coveted Best-In-Show Award?”. It’s no different for someone like me, returning to the hobby after an 8 year break for business and family commitments. The challenge is there… especially when you know you start again and immediately compete against the best Champions around. It is back to the drawing board and a chance to use the guidelines that worked in the past to get back in the winning circle. Years ago, when I was a teenager in Australia, a top breeder named Frank Gardiner outlined a plan that helped me enormously. He said there were two types of people who showed budgies. There were those who had deep pockets lined with cash. These folks could go out every couple of years, buy top quality stock and breed them together in the hope of producing a winner or two… a cycle they would repeat year after year until they got burned out and left the hobby. The other type were those with limited budgets, who studied the birds, became true breeders, and built a stud of top quality birds. This Frank said, took longer, but was the real key to long term success. It is obvious that the same holds true today. Back in Australia I had limited financial resources so had no real option on which plan to follow. I followed Frank’s plan to the letter and it worked for me… and soon my birds were winning awards at local shows. Several years later I moved to New Zealand and put the plan into effect again working with Eric Monks from Lower Hutt. In 1977 I was transferred to USA and had to start all over again. This time it was Harold Trethaway and Joe Lastella who helped me with initial stock… and the great Don Langell who made a real impact in getting my birds to top competitive level. So…. What I have learned is… While there is no simple answer to this question of how to breed “Best In Show”, there are some guidelines for the newcomer to the hobby which will increase your chances and help put you on the road to success. The first requirement for success with Budgerigars is knowledge. And, as with any profession or hobby, the knowledge and experience necessary for success is not gained overnight or indeed in a few years. There are several excellent books written on the subject which will help you gain knowledge. “The Cult Of The Budgerigar” and “Best In Show” are fine examples, while “Budgerigar World” magazine and your society bulletins will expose you to ideas and practices of leading breeders. While books and articles are great to pick up the basics there is no substitute for knowledge gained from years of experience. Whenever possible attend shows and visit aviaries. “Pick the brains” of successful breeders. Visit as many aviaries of top line breeder/exhibitors as possible. They all have something to offer and you will be surprised how helpful most will be. When it comes time to purchase your initial breeding stock be patient.. and do the homework necessary to make a wise, well informed decision. The investment you are about to make can bring years of enjoyment and success, but beware, it can also bring frustration and despair. Avoid the temptation to buy every “nice” bird you see from a variety of sources. Buying birds from too many sources increases the possibility of them being genetically incompatible. Search out a breeder who specializes in varieties you prefer, one whose birds look similar, one who is winning on the show bench, and very importantly one who has a personality that works for you.. When I first got started in the U.S., back in the late 70s, one of the first shows I attended was an All American in Connecticut. This provided an opportunity to see some of the best birds of that era and meet top exhibitors from around the country. Hugh Wilson from California won the show and with Don Langell from Massachussetts shared most of the top ten placings. I immediately loved what I saw in the Langell birds and decided that was who I wanted to work with. Having selected your mentor, visit the breeder’s aviary if possible. Tell him in advance that you would like to get started with a few pairs. That can be tough if his birds are in big demand as Don’s were, but the more I visited and spent time in his birdroom, the more I learned and in the process we also became close friends. Be realistic with your budget. Only you know what you can afford. But most importantly, don’t make the mistake of substituting quality of quantity. It’s far better to start with two or three pair of quality stock than six pair of inferior quality. Keep in mind that your success in breeding winners with the birds you select is almost as important to the seller as it is to you. If you are successful on the show bench you will sell your excess stock… but your success will ensure he does too, assuming you tell others about the foundation of your birds. Don often joked that I was his best advertisement around as everyone knew our winning birds were from Langell bloodlines. Assuming the fancier you have selected has a reputation for success and honesty, allow him to make some suggestions on suitable pairings. The fancier knows how his birds breed and will pair them up as he would to have the best chance of success. While it is often possible to purchase an outstanding cock, a quality breeding hen is “gold”. There is a saying that you have to breed your own good hens. Be prepared to take a well bred hen from the same bloodline which may not be as visually .pleasing as the cock. The cocks you select should have good size, desirable head qualities and depth of mask while the hens should have good length and mask. Avoid small spotted hens as they tend to pass this characteristic to their offspring. While it is quite acceptable to purchase a two or three year old cock which is a proven breeder, one is advised to buy current year hens whenever possible. The cocks you bring in will usually have a longer “breeding life” than the hens which tend to be more temperamental. The fact that a hen has bred successfully in one aviary does not necessarily mean she will go to nest in another. The virgin hens should give you at least two productive seasons and is more likely to accept her new surroundings. One exception to this rule is the outstanding hen a breeder has used successfully for a couple of seasons and has then discarded from the breeding team. This usually means she has produced young hens superior to herself. Such hens are often purchased for a nominal sum because the owner feels she has served her purpose – and if the price is right there’s always a chance she’ll produce an outstanding youngster or two for you. Keep in mind there was a specific reason the bird was retained in the breeding team for multiple seasons. The pairing together of your new arrivals, especially temperamental hens, is not always easy. I usually segregate the new birds in a separate room within earshot of my other birds. Then I pair up the new birds quickly, as soon as they come into condition. This practice seems to help them acclimatize to their new surroundings faster and eliminates some of the stress factors involved in settling in to a new aviary of strange birds, finding their place in the pecking order, and adjusting to new procedures and feeding. The old adage “feed, breed and weed” now comes into play. A well balanced diet of seed, greens, grit, minerals, and a high protein supplement or soft food should be fed throughout the year. Your goal during your first year is to produce a satisfactory number of young birds that are “keepers” to form the nucleus of a “stud” of budgerigars… with emphasis on the number of hens. Do not expect to breed winners your first year. If you do it’s a bonus…. Keep in mind you are working with someone’s sale birds, not their best… and stay focused on the goal of breeding enough keepers to work with next season. In order to achieve these goals avoid the temptation to overwork your birds, especially the hens. They are not merely egg laying machines and after a couple of nests should be rested for several months before they are put up to work again. At the end of the first year “keep the best… and cull the rest”. Discard all the young cocks which have obvious faults, or who, after their second molt, are not up to the quality of the cocks you originally purchased. Be ruthless in culling your cocks retaining only the very best. Many exhibitors inhibit their progress for years by breeding with mediocre or “middle of the road” birds. While hens appear to be able to “mask” or “carry” hidden desirable qualities I have rarely seen outstanding birds bred from a poor quality cock. After your first breeding season you should also cull all hens with obvious faults eg crossed wings, poor backline, hinged tail, small spots, but retain the balance to breed back to your best cocks during the next breeding season. You may wish to ask the advice of your mentor when it comes time to determine which birds to keep and which to sell, especially if you have not yet “developed an eye” or feel the young are all of equal quality. Before the second breeding season you should return to your original source and buy one or two additional birds. These birds, preferably cocks so they can be mated to multiple hens, should be superior in quality to your original purchases. After the third and fourth breeding season purchases should only be made to bring in specific features lacking in your stock ie feather texture, depth of mask, size of spots, head qualities, or directional feathering. To increase the genetic compatibility you should continue to purchase from your original source whenever possible, or from aviaries where the birds come from similar bloodlines. When I first got started here I began with birds from Harold Trethaway, Joe Lastella and Don Langell who all had birds with Ormerod (UK) backgrounds. In later years, after I had established my families I brought in birds from Don every couple of seasons to enhance or bring in specific features. Birds from these four aviaries successfully blended together because in effect they all go back to the same gene pool. Outstanding birds from new bloodlines are not always compatible when introduced… and may fail to blend in and produce the desired features. Over the years I tried introducing several into the “Langell” families, but the only one that worked came from Clare & Terry Pilkington in England which many generations ago had Ormerod in the background. This procedure has worked for me several times in the past. First as a teenager in Australia, again after college, during my short stay in New Zealand, and a couple of times since I arrived in the U.S.. Now I’m back in the hobby and testing it once again. The one thing I do know from past experience is.. If you have the patience, and want to really learn the hobby… just follow this plan year after year and the overall quality of your birds will steadily improve. It won’t be long before you are winning classes, sections, divisions, and even Best In Show.

You have some birds there I'd be happy to have in my aviary

My passion, my purpose in our hobby will be complete when every budgerigar owner has a mentor. Not only in the UK but the World over. A few words about me, the decline, our future and your role. Why would anyone want to keep, breed and exhibit budgerigars? And, supposing you did, where would you get the know-how? Apart from the unexplained and instinctive attraction we feel for their brilliant colours and delightfully biddable ways, there are probably as many different contributory factors that motivate the hobbyist as there are hobbyists. For some, getting the knowledge is almost the next logical step after learning first to walk, then to talk. Others take their greatest satisfaction from the sense of community they get from local groups, almost like the camaraderie shared on the terraces by lads in matching scarves. Observing the outcomes of selective breeding is what might motivate others, while seeing the hardware stack up after the wins at major shows may be the driving force in some cases. For me, what became a lifelong fascination and source of great pleasure began almost accidentally. More than fifty years ago as an animal-lover with what was left of his first meagre pay-package burning another hole in his holey trousers pocket, I was desperate to own a pet. There would have been no question of being allowed to keep anything that took up house room, and it was love at first sight when I came upon the pair of red eared waxbills in a local pet shop. But despite what the songs say, love is not always enough. Ignorant and unable to find any resource that would inform me on their needs, I learned the hard way that some things are not hardy enough to withstand the Cumbrian climate and a well-intentioned amateur touch. After a decent period, I decided to do things a little differently and my next venture began from a different starting place. The local library, a conveniently free source of knowledge, had a tiny section that included information on budgerigars, and I read every word. If I had learned my subjects as keenly at school I could have been Chief Exec of ICI by the time I was twenty one! As it was, I was supplementing my income by doing a paper round for the local newsagent, upon whose shelves I came upon a publication called “Cage Birds”, which became my mentor’s voice. Equipped with my new knowledge and a cobbled-together shed, my life as a breeder and exhibitor of budgerigars began. And the learning process is a life’s work. Like many, I had neither benefit of an experienced mentor nor virtually unlimited resources to encourage and enable me to breed world class birds. Having started from that place, I have a particular passion to develop support networks that will enable this season’s pet owner to become next year’s top-class breeder. Information has never been more widely available and the Internet is an extremely important source. It does not need to be said, however, that identifying reliable, informed advice and opinion is a skill by itself. There is good stuff out there, based on learning, experience and quantifiable evidence and there is less trustworthy stuff that ranges from the purely anecdotal to the downright bad. And we have to guard against reading opinion as fact, for those two things can be very different. Potentially, the various on-line forums are capable of being a valuable source of information and support, because they enable us to “meet” and share information with breeders from a wide range of backgrounds and abilities. We have seen massive changes in the hobby as it evolved and adapted to enable survival in the 21st Century, and yet despite the eugenics and bird-room technologies, despite the high-end competitiveness that has attracted interest from businessmen and entrepreneurs who would seek to make a profit or even a livelihood out of the hobby, budgerigars are still budgerigars and for most breeders the interest, the joys, the rewards are the birds themselves. And some things have never changed. The fact that we all start somewhere is self-evident but for a young person with his pocket-money budgies, the world of the top breeders and the world-class show can look a pretty daunting place. It is also self-evident that without new blood the hobby will eventually die out and that, in my opinion, would be very sad. How do we attract new people into the hobby? How do we support their start up? How do we encourage beginners to stick at it and enjoy what they do? How do we encourage and enable them to move, if that is their ambition, from pet-owner to champion breeder? Promoting the hobby is not something that necessarily requires a degree in marketing techniques. Promotion begins with word-of-mouth communication – come on, you must remember it? Old fashioned talking about it! Either as an individual to your mates and neighbours, or in association with your local club, you can help spread the word, generate interest and share your enthusiasm by taking presentations to community forums who are always looking for guest speakers; examples might include schools and colleges, Elderly Care residences, Women’s or Church or hobby groups. (Don’t be offended if they ask you to provide your personal details as we all have a duty to protect the vulnerable in our society.) Talk to the local press. Let them know when your meetings are and invite them to your shows. They may ask for features to provide a background, which provide extra publicity. Have an open day. Run a free course at the local college; it could be just a one-off couple of hours, or something that can be developed to run over a few weeks. See if you can have a stand at any local events and arrange to staff it with your most approachable members. Arrange visits to clubs outside your area and invite them back to yours. And, most importantly, make sure that new faces are made to feel properly welcome. There are lots of ways of spreading the word. Ask your club colleagues for their ideas. Of course, if you do happen to have a degree in marketing, it couldn’t hurt! There is an important spin-off here for existing breeders, by the way, and that has to do with how we generate and maintain a market for our surplus birds, which may not be good enough to exhibit but may be the accessible, affordable starting point for new owners. Similarly, you can forge links with local pet shops and veterinary surgeries that may hold a list of local breeders, both of which can point potential buyers in your direction. Supplying birds and equipment to new starters either at low or no cost is a win/win situation, as you increase the size of your network and the beginner does not have to invest his life savings in something that he may find is not for him after all. At the General Council Budgerigar Society meeting in February 2011, the BS approved a proposal I had submitted for an idea that would establish a list of those members who would be interested in becoming mentors to support beginners. The list would be made available through the Budgerigar Society web site. Mentoring can include aspects of guidance, help, advice and teaching, dependent upon the resources of the mentor and the needs of the mentee. It might be one-to-one in person or based on friendly chats over the phone or internet. For the beginner the mentoring system is a genuine opportunity to feel supported and a part of something. For the mentor there is the chance to share your knowledge and experience and to know that you are genuinely helping. Any BS member who is interested can contact the society secretary including your details. As a member, you can encourage all Area Societies to adopt the mentoring scheme by following the example set by The Northern Budgerigar Society, who brought the proposal to its members and agreed to take it up through the democratic voting system at their meeting. If the idea were taken up by the World Budgerigar Organisation, people elsewhere in the world could access accurate information that had not become distorted through translation. If you care about the future of the hobby, you have a part to play in securing it; as an individual, at local club level and through the Budgerigar Society. Share your ideas instead of jealously guarding your acquired wisdom. If you are one of the lucky ones who is time and resource-rich, think back to your first days and have some compassion for the tentative first steps of the new starter, as one disparaging remark can cause his interest to be stillborn. Spread the word; on the street, on the forums, on the social networks. Barrie Shutt

as a side note.............in this topic..... I just want to say. I dont mind being told I was wrong about something, because thats how we learn stuff

Learn something everyday dont we Thanks Nubbly

Well done

Usually, if there's a single chick, I would transfer it into a suitable other nest( same age chicks or an egg due to hatch ) and let the parents start again.

you might want to sand off the paint cos your budgies are eating the paint. Or swap it for a safe gumtree branch.

Thankyou to Daryl, Nubbly, Jeff and Chookbreeder for good info supplied so far in this Topic PS how does everyone feel the thicker perches are working out, or not ?

:D

I do not believe this bird is a YF DF spangle. Here's one of mine Here's that bird Nubbly

I have a one legged budgie in my aviary and he copes really well. He hasnt been able to breed but that doesnt matter one way or the other. I saved him from being euthanased and he is happy here. http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=22658

There will always be a slant to a written statement in comparison to a face to face conversation. Thats the hardest thing sometimes about getting a point across and getting your mucking words fuddled up I appreciate your input .............. There is obviously a lot of stress on these birds and that can all be a part of what follows. How well they cope. Yes.....those that wont send their best for fear of losing them are stupid as why have what may be a better bird at home if only you are going to see it ? Yes, there are a few like that who feel that way. Why have an aim if you dont acchieve a goal ? Is there some ground roots basic fixes that can make it easier on the birds ? Whether it be caging, transport or just before and after care ? These are the simple things I wished for discussion when opening this topic regardless of the direction the topic took or perceptions of my intentions by others.

I am sure NSW will do well and to rephrase everything............ Would there be a better way to transport birds to the nationals than currently exists. I.E. a better designed transport cage ? Does each state have the same design cages ? As each holding cage is made for the nationals ....can these holding cages be better designed than they are ? Doesnt anyone have any ideas or input on these things without seeing negatives in it all ? This is all simple question and answer stuff without the need for people to get so hot under the collar about perceived negativities. If the topic is so hard then maybe I should just close it.