**KAZ**

:D :rofl: 133. When you spend $500 easily on new budgies and wont spend $500 on dental work.

Dad was an olive green greywing so as a baby the hen baby had a bluish hue to her.

Photos taken on the day

Here is the photo taken on the day of the show of the greywing hen. She is still a baby and still has a bit of growing to do.

I seriously doubt that fallow is involved here.

He is a blue series texas clearbody for sure. Cinnamon NO.......he has rubbed his head on something...that is not part of his natural colour.

Both the yellow budgie and the white one look like double factor dominant pieds to me.

On a rare occasion I have witnessed the odd chick in a nest ends up with a broken neck due to aggressive feeding action of the parents....sounding very much like your chick. Perhaps same thing in this case ?

Yes, once the chicks are feathered you can remove the nestbox and put them on the floor of the breeder cage OR put them on the floor of the breeder cage AND remove the mother out of cage and out of earshot of the father and he will complete the raising process.

Perfect Works great doesnt it Robyn ? Best practice I ever employed.

If you read my topic on my dominant pied with no iris rings as an adult it was determined by budgerigar judges that it is due to the recessive pied inheritance and can happen sometimes. http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....c=27593&hl=

I feed chicken carcasses on occasion, but would offer it only at their main feeding time over an hour no more and then remove whats left.....it should never be left in there for hours or long enough to go off. The breeder you mention who lost birds was obviously not being careful enough. Cec Gearing has been known to cook a steak for his birds and feed it to them....watches them eat it and removes whats left in a period of time. I agree top breeders are doing more than offering the protein, but in all cases I see, protein is whats taking them ahead in bigger leaps and bounds. This all has opened up room for further investigation and we should all pay more attention to the ingredients on the sides of bird food boxes

Wow, you're right, I never saw that before and I've looked at it quite a few times. I'll have to ask the guy how much is in it and why it's there. Interesting. It might also be worthwhile checking that the guinea pig pellets you're using are not the ones listed at this link as they contain the following warning: This feed is scientifically formulated for the intended species of animal and should not be fed to any other animal. It may contain medication and ingredients that may prove harmful if fed to other species. This isn't meant to be a go at you in any way because I know in the past I tried using turkey starter pellets and later found out they have all kinds of nasty things in them. I just think it might be worth looking into. Your birds certainly seem to be doing well on them and as I said they contain a lot of worthwhile ingredients. Its okay Daryl...I am not taking any of this personally....I am interested enough to treat this as a fact finding expedition....purely educational. :rofl: And I am sure there would be many many formulations for these pellets....knowing EXACTLY whats in each kind would be beneficial for sure. Another interesting thing of note....I am now looking at ingredients more closely as it seems we feed some things being a good bit unaware of actual ingredients. You said about the whey protein I know many breeders who use whey protein. Some used to use soy protein but have given the soy one up in favour of the whey protein. In researching the difference between the two kinds...whey and soy I found this The debate over whether whey or soy protein is better is not a simple one, but it can be simplified into a matter of how both are produced. Soy protein isolate is made in a process where soybeans are crushed under pressure into soybean meal and defatted. The other components of the soy are removed through further processing by caustic alkaline solution to remove fibre and soluble carbohydrates, then an acid wash is used to precipitate the protein out of the meal. Solvents may be used during processing to assist in the removal of more unwanted components to give a purer protein isolate, which leaves traces of these sometimes dangerous chemicals left in the final product. This harsh processing to isolate the protein denatures it as well as removing most of the soybean's actual flavour and characteristics. Whey protein isolate is produced through cheese-making processes that have existed for centuries. Milk is separated into curds and whey, and the curds are used to produce cheese while the whey is passed through a series of ceramic filters to separate other components such as lactose and fat out to concentrate the whey protein. This filtration is continued under cold temperature to further purify the product into whey protein isolate, and is not highly denatured like soy proteins. Whey protein has a full spectrum of amino acids, whereas soy protein is naturally deficient in the amino acid methionine, which is artificially extracted, processed and substituted into the final soy protein powder to try and deal with this issue. These two processes for producing the product alone are enough to convince most people that whey protein is superior. On top of its highly unnatural and possibly dangerous production, soy protein contains huge amounts of trypsin inhibitors which tax digestion of protein and the function of the pancreas. Soy is infamous for its goitrogenic effect, meaning it affects the thyroid gland's hormone balance, leading to hypothyroidism. The phytoestrogen content of soy has been shown to have an effect on the endocrine system, causing reduced fertility, and having an overall hormonal estrogen effect. This effect is less than natural estrogen, but even a small change in the body's natural balance of hormones can have detrimental consequences. Weighed against each other, whey protein is considerably safer and healthier, and is far more beneficial as soy protein only adds its own problems to weigh out the benefits the huge scamming companies tout In a search for more detail for my own knowledge base I find that BUDGIE STARTER which I and many other breeders use also has whey protein as an ingredient. Also whey protein is a key ingredient in Hand rearing formula, egg and biscuit mix, and all pelllets I have ever come across. :laughter: I know breeders who have used bread soaked in milk for their birds and others who dip bread in s76 a baby milk formula as well. I think there are many breeders who are and have been using dairy based milk products for many years without adverse affects. It takes me back to growing up as a child and we all fed bowls of milk to our pet cats and dogs. These days all we hear is how cats and dogs are lactose intolerant.........why now as opposed to all our healthy dogs and cats in years gone by ? If birds are lactose intolerant, where are all the sick birds that cannot tolerate the whey protein or dairy products we have been giving them. No evidence of gastrointestinal issues under the birds perches. The only thing I am noticing since using it is my baby birds by 6-8 months of age are way better than before and the babies in the kindie cage tuck inot this soft food with gusto. I also use whole egg powder. Then there is the topic of feeding meat protein to birds....many a top breeder advocates the use of meat protein for the birds.....they say its why they are breeding those power birds. Breeders have used meat meal, chicken carcasses, .........heck even a top breeder here cooks steak for his birds. He also uses whey protein powder and his birds sell for thousands Australia wide. They must be doing something right. In general, animal proteins are considered to be “high quality” proteins, while proteins from vegetable sources are felt to be “incomplete” or low quality (lacking one or more of the needed amino acids). I was at a top national budgie breeders earlier today and noticed a vast difference in the size and power of his birds.....knowing him and the birds he had in his aviary a year ago, I know the difference to be the addition of both whole egg powder and meat protein ( essentially chicken based ). Another ingredient of your pelllets is Hemp Seed Oil. A good friend of mine and mentor ( budgie related ) was feeding hemp seed oil and hemp protein powder to his budgies with marked improvements....being as its extremely high in protein. I noticed a huge difference in the size, feather quality and powerful look of his birds during this time. All this seems to indicate to me that protein of many kinds is used to improve show budgerigars. The breeders here where I am seeing massive differences in their birds ARE in fact the ones using whey protein. meat protein, and whole egg powder. The ones that are using these kinds of additional proteins are the ones with birds in the Nationals. Its no secret, at least not here in W.A.

This Looks good enough for me to eat

I actually baulk at the propaganda aproach vets take to inisiting on pellets as a "better way" than seeds...therefore my reluctance to use them, especially since my birds get a huge varied diet. Interestingly your comment re molasses and the link to your pellets I find that the pellets you are using ALSO have molasses in them as a key ingredient http://www.birdandpet.com.au/documents/products_7.html

No, mate..........as stated earlier.... It was debated during our other clubs Christmas meeting today...there was a school of thought it may have been a dutch pied, but once the standard was checked they realised it didnt fit that category either and has been decided it must be dominant pied with recessive pied inheritance. I think AJ was a little embarassed that this bird tested him

Very nice chicks :laughter: I'll bet you are pleased with them

Most breeders do not breed through the coldest part of winter or the hottest part of summer. There are breeders and there are breeders. Show breeders mostly have breeding seasons they stick to and pet breeders would breed any time according to their setup.

Yes He admitted he never checks eyes ...even his own birds. It taught him something Yep, you sure did :rofl: It was a funny turn of events anyway....I only took him to see if he passed the "test"

Green cock Boof ..........looks cinnamon to me. Sure the hen is cinnamon ?

photo ?

Your first one sounds like a double factor dominant pied................in all cases though PHOTOS help a lot. Please post pictures if you want an accurate diagnosis

Renee asked me today which of these two chicks had YOUR legring on it