Ausmoz

I agree Bec (edit: and Daz, sorry). I've actually just finished writing a post asking if anyone has any more information. Sorry it's long. I've been thinking about this a lot. Here's the link: http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=7837

We built a budgie cage recently using galvanised iron mesh (pictures, info, and some discussion in this thread), and eterri mentioned that zinc was toxic to budgies. This was my reply Since then, I've been searching for information about zinc toxicity in budgies. I've had trouble so far finding good information. There are several websites that mention that zinc is toxic to budgies, but I haven't found much in the way of scientific literature. Once someone says "there is evidence for this" lots of websites run with it without ever analysing the evidence for themselves. I'd be interested to see the evidence. The only scientific literature I've found so far, despite searching in other places (scientific journals via my uni library website), were the first three articles referenced at the bottom of the webpage that eterri linked to (which all the quotes in this post are from). I don't have access to the full text versions of these articles. The website that quotes them does so by saying that little is known about the long term effect of non-lethal exposure. This website does not state that galvanised wire should not be used. http://www.forthebirdsdvm.com/cagemade.htm If anyone has any references I'd be very interested. My impression from what I've read so far is that the birds who get sick from zinc have generally ingested quite a bit of it, from swallowing large pieces of it (eating padlocks, and chewing on cages (including plastic-coated and powder-coated cages). I've read that the plastic in some plastic coated cages contains lead too, not to mention that swallowing a piece of plastic is not good for the bird, and plastic may break off more easily than metal. http://www.forthebirdsdvm.com/cagemade.htm All the websites seem to agree that some galvanised wire is safer than others. If the wire is galvanised after it is welded in to the mesh, it's a lot safer than wire that is galvanised and then welded. I'm pretty sure that ours is the galvanised after welding type, because it's shiny and there are no metal blobs. Or maybe it's been electroplated http://www.forthebirdsdvm.com/cagemade.htm Does this treatment lower the risk of a toxic zinc dose to an acceptable level? Zinc is toxic to budgies in large amounts (lots of things are), but it is also a metal essential to their diet. It's all about the quantity. Does putting wire that is coated in zinc oxide on a bird cage expose the bird to a harmful amount of zinc? What if the birds don't chew the wire? Are galvanised wire cages less safe than plastic coated cages if the birds do chew the wire? As far at this whole topic is concerned, I am biased because of our cage (which is not in use, by the way), and I know that. I'm interested in what other people think.

I think Kiwi is a normal green dominant pied

Now I'm not sure what I should do. Replacing both the carftboard and the wire doesn't leave much of a cage! As far at the craftboard is concerned, I personally feel that it's safe enough. The Material Safety Data Sheet for MDF says that it is classified as not hazardous in it's intact state. The MSDS states that it emits formaldehyde gas under some circumstances (eg when heated) but that if it is in a well ventilated area (which it would be), the concentration is very very low (and also, we wouldn't heat it in the first place). Formaldehyde-containing glues are also used in other materials including chipboard and plywood, so I'm not sure what the alternative would be. The MSDS also mentions that the substance is toxic in powder form, but I think that refers specifically to fine powders generated by machining. I'm pretty sure that the nest boxes that Mum has always used in her avairy are made of the same material and she has never had a problem with her birds, even though the birds have slightly chewed at the corners of these boxes over the years. As for the galvanised wire, I didn't think there was any other alternative. Again, I've seen it used so much by other people (also including my Mum) for avairys that I didn't even consider that it might be unsafe When we went to Bunnings to choose the wire, it was all galvanised. Would it be okay if I scrubbed it with vinegar? I don't know what to do. We put a lot of effort into making this cage, so of course I want it all to be okay. On the one hand, I don't want to use a cage that is unsafe for the birds, but on the other hand, I'm not sure how real the risks are or what the alternatives are. As I said, I've seen these materials in such common usage. I'm really confused. Is the cage at all salvagable?

Jim's a very handsome little guy

It sounds to me like you're making a well thought out decision. You've certainly come to the right place to do your research

Our cage is finished! *jumps up and down* See the pictures and read about it in my post in the cages section: http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=7807

Well, today we finished building the new cage which Quin and Eucy will one day share. Here are the photos: Before we attached the skirt around the bottom And after we attached the skirt This is the view in the huge front door (removable wall) And last but not least, we attached the doors, and it's finished! We reckon it turned out pretty well, not bad for the first cage we've built anyway :grbud: Some cage info: The dimentions of the cage are 50cm W x 80cm L x 70 cm H (which is the biggest cage that would fit in the space we have in the study ). The cage floor, back wall, and skirt are made of a kind of craft(?) board (1.6mm thick) that we bought from Bunnings. The frame is made of square 1.8cm thick pine. The cage is nailed together with 30mm long 1.6mm bullet-head nails (flat-heads might have been better) The 1.2mm square wire avairy mesh is 0.71mm thick, and is nailed to the cage with small (approx 20mm long, 1mm thick) bent over nails. The door and removable wall are attached with latches at the top, and dooflickies :ausb: at the bottom. Here is a picture of one of the latches. (You can see that the wood has split a little in both of these pieces of wood. It happened to these two pieces, and to one other piece. This picture shows the worst of it. I think that flat-head nails rather than bullet-heads might have helped prevent this.) ...and one of the dooflickies Ausmoz edit: fixed links to images

Wow, that's so cool :grbud:

Yes, you have beautiful budgies. Welcome to the forum, it's a great place to learn :grbud:

We're in the process of nailing ours together, I'm taking a break from it. The U shaped nails we have are too thick too :fear They're a major effort to get in, and they do often split the wood. I am sooo glad we used an off-cut as a test piece! The construction is looking a little shaky at the moment. Well, it *looks* okay, but it isn't as rigid as I'd like and it moves a fair bit when pushed, but we're nailing on a kind of skirt (for lack of a better word) around the bottom that may help with that. The wire is annoying to attach, as it's been in a roll and refuses to sit flat (it doesn't help that it's quite thin either). It's a little lumpy/rippley :fear Oh well, I guess the budgies wont notice any of that stuff. If it doesn't fall apart, we'll be doing okay Anyhow, I'll get back to it. Just nailing the wire onto the main frame (already done the doors) and then attaching the skirt. Hopefully they'll be some pics of it finished tomorrow (fingers crossed). Edit: I've just realised we have 12mm squares in our wire too, but I was right about the thickness (1.71mm)

I think Jim is a dominant pied. He has blue very high up on his body, which is not the typical pattern of recessive pieds. Recessive pieds ususally have a patch of different colour at the bottom ("belly area") only. Quin is a recessive pied:

I really don't know, but I would have thought that both the baby recessive pied and Sylvester were females from those photos :fear

Your budgies are all gorgeous, Munch is a sweetie It's great Apple has accepted him. I don't know anything much about sexing recessive pieds, but I would have guessed that one was a female from the photo. But the other colours in the photo (like the blue) look a little unusual (maybe from the flash), so it could just be the picture. Or, it could just be me

Amazing pictures as always Bea. I love the one of Pud with his parents, it's such a cute family picture.

Hey, thanks so much for the pics Una That is one damn fine looking cage you've made there. It looks fantastic to me, probably a heck of a lot more professional than the one we're building will look Bending over the nails to attach the wire is a good idea. We were thinking of using these U shaped nails, but the ones we have might be a bit long for the wood thickness, so it's good to have an alternative idea if they don't work out. Just out of curiosity, do you know what type of wire you used? We bought some from Bunnings today that's 0.71mm thick wire, which seems a little thin to me, but we couldn't find anything bigger with the 10mm square size. It did say avairy wire, so I thought it couldn't be too bad. The wire on your cage looks so solid, and tight/flat - I hope ours turns out that well. I think it was a good idea for you to use the rectangular pieces of wood for your main structure too. We have square pieces, but I don't think they'll nail together as easily as your rectangular pieces have. Another way that your cage is probably better than ours will be is that you've made a square frame and then attached a piece of plywood for the solid back wall. We're going to have a solid back wall too, but ours will be made of a much thicker piece of wood, and that will be instead of the vertical posts, rather than in addition to them. We didn't think of it at the time we bought the wood, but having such a heavy back wall, and also not having a complete box frame, may not be good for the structual integrity :ausb: ...but it might work out, we'll just have to try it and see. I'll post some pictures in a day or two when our cage is done. Oh, and sorry for the giant post guys

I signed up too, gotta love free stuff :(Laughing out loud):

Wow, I love your cage Una, it looks fantastic. We're in the process of building a cage a bit like it at the moment actually (we've bought most of the wood, just need to get some avairy wire and then we'll put it together - ahhh the "fun" part ) Can you give us any tips about how to attach the avairy wire to the wood? I'd love to see some more pictures of this cage to help us with building ours - please :ausb:

I'm not speaking from much experience, but I don't think that clipping wings is necessary (either for taming or safety). Our birds have never been and will never be clipped. In terms of safety, I think the birds probably do best when they can as fly well as possible. It's wonderful that our tame budgie Quin flys towards us and lands on us. She likes to fly around in her room for exercise too. She's never done herself any harm by flying into anything. However, we didn't let her fly outside the cage until she was completely unafraid of us and quite happy to step up onto our fingers. I think that's what's most important for safety.

Fantastic Lin. It looks like you're doing a great job taming those two

Wow, that's wonderful Una! They look so great together I look forward to more photos of them both (especially as Munch gets more feathers!)

Yep, we've been away for a week Great Ocean Rd and Lorne. It was lots of fun, and now we're back to taming budgie #2 (*still* unnamed)

Great pictures! I knew #1 was a dominant pied, but how do you tell that he's a double factor?

Cool photo Bea, congratulations

I've read that the early signs are that the birds grow faster and feather earlier than their siblings, and it certainly sounds like you have one big baby there! If the feathers are abnormal and the bird is that big, it sounds like a feather duster is a definate possibility