RIPbudgies

Sorry if my reply made it sound like I was a bit angy as I was not. Just straightening a myth. Glad you have posted such a topic of discussion. I am enjoying it even I am busy at the moment so cannot have as much input as I would like. I would say though as far genomics is concerned, it really is a great tool within industries were the genome has been sequenced such as cattle, horses and chickens. These are industries worths millions of dollars, so to maximise the potential of the products make perfect sense.

No, I have not taken pics as I have not had time. I have paired these up over a week amongst trying to doing other stuff around the place. I will see how I go about getting pix. The hen in the first pairing if anybody remembers was a hen I posted about and named her Jewel. Have no idea where the thread is though.

I am so glad it wasn't just me I'm pretty used to it now but at first I kept thinking it was on my monitor not IN my monitor LOL I've had a short look around The Myth page - Not so much correct - of course this is mainly in cockatiels*but i took it as they were referring to all birds not a specif one * BUT it is TRUE if you breed visually same mutations in a cockatiel you do end up with Smaller birds,some have health issues as well, if you breed two visual Lutinos together You get the notorious "lutino bald spot" NO show person or good breeder wants on their Lutino cockatiel and that Lutino bald spot Can get very large and they (reputable cockatiel breeders) have worked hard to get it out of the lutino's but other breeders who don't research have put it back in If you wish to apply the logic of breeding the same cockatiel mutations together which according to your un-scientific point of view then you must apply the same logic to any bird. It is pure an simple a myth at it's basic form. There have been mutations that are linked to various other mutations. Over time such linkages usually become unlinked. Size is controlled by many genes. The so called bald spot is controlled like any other trait. It is true that it occurs in Lutino cockatiels. If two Lutinos are carrying this trait then yes they can produce birds with it but it is not a reason not to pair two Lutinos together. As long as you keep adequate records and know what you are doing then this trait will surface only occasionally. then i clicked on the mutation page They have Lutino being marked as a SEX LINKED RECESSIVE GENE in budgies Yes it is sex linked NO it is not recessive it does NOT take 2 INO budgies to make an Ino budgie same with Opaline and Pearl (For cockatiels) Ino is a recessive mutation and the allele is found on the sex chromosomes so it is a sex-linked recessive gene. they also label a white face lutino cockatiel as an ALBINO there is no such thing as an ALBINO cockatiel - Cockatiels do not have the blue mutation that makes up the Albino an "Albino" cockatiel is just a WHITE FACE LUTINO There most certainly is such a thing as an Albino cockatiel but is generally referred too as a Whitefaced Lutino. The Blue mutation is responsible for removing yellow family pigments and in combination with the Ino gene produces a Blue mutant. FYI there is also a Yellowface Mutant in cockatiels. and there are such things as Lethal mutations some consider the Crested budgie to be one The myth of a lethal gene in crested has been around since the mutation occured. I have never found any evidence to support this way of thinking. I do wonder however if the fanciers of the day thought there may be due to the lethal gene in Canaries when pairing crested birds together. Just as happens today it only takes one person of some influence to begin a myth and before you know it, the myth has taken on a life of it's own.

I have set up 18 pairs. I have moved the breeding room around a bit and will be setting up two more cages to round off with 20 breeding cages. Will add them when I have then sorted. So far all but one pair have been in the nest boxes so looking like a good start. So here are my pairings and why they are so. Enjoy and comment or ask questions. Pair 1: Danish Pied Dk Green/Cinn x Cinn Grey(sf) Green/Danish, Blue This is a father daughter pairing as I only have one visual Danish and although the gene pool will be close to start with it will be expanded upon later. Don't know if the cock is split for blue as last year he was paired to a double factored Grey Green. Pair 2: Opaline Sky x Opaline Cinnamon Lt Green Cock is the best Opaline in the place and although the hen has a short feather visually she was the only one to come from a place of good breeding practices (G&G) and so the only choice as a mate to increase my Opaline line. Pair 3: Lt Green/Blue x Lt Green Specifically to produce 100% Lt Green and if the hen is split Blue then Skys as well. This hen has failed to breed at two other attempts. This cock is more forward and may compel her to bred. Time will tell. Pair 4: Dilute Dk Green x Cinnamon Grey(sf) Green/Dilute The hen is a G&G bred bird and paired to a Flannagan cock last year produced a Dilute. Quite a surprise as it was a chance she could be. The cock is from a hen bred in South Aust and was used last year to a Clearwing Olive to upgrade and produce 100% Dk factor birds. Pair 5: Cinnamon Dk Green/Dilute x Grey(sf) Green/Dilute Both these birds share a common ancestor on the dam line. The sire line are unrelated. These birds are part of the Black Eye Self line but I do not refer to them as such. This pairing will produce Cinnamon hens some of which will be Dilute and some may carry the grey factor. All cocks produced will be Split for Cinnamon. Any visually normal birds may or may not be split for Dilute. I am looking to hopefully produce a few good BE hens from this pairing, all normals will be culled. Pair 6: Cinnamon Dk Green/Danish, Blue x Grey(sf) Green/Danish, Blue Brother sister pairing. This pair are the siblings of the hen and progeny of the cock in pair 1. Again close pairing but at this stage it is no problem. The dam of these two was a bird who produced better than herself. I am hoping these two have more of their mothers genetic makeup than the father. Pair 7 & 8: Both Clearwings that look Olive and paired to Cinnamon Light Green hens. These two cocks could be Dusk Dk Greens and one may even be a Violet Dk Green. In order to prove the Dusk theory they need to be paired to a no dark factor bird. I also need to start my line of Cinnamon Clearwings which I use in my BES breeding. Pair 9: Cinnamon Dilute Lt Green x Cinnamon Grey(sf) Green/Dilute These have a comman ancestor on the sire line. The cock is of good colour with only a small amount of suffusion. The hen although is Grey Green has a good depth of psittacine which is needed in BES. Pair 10: Goldenface(sf) Cobalt x Sky Blue Grand-father grand-daughter pairing on the sire line. Basically I have few options at present for my GF line as I lack qty in Blue series birds. The hen is smaller than I would have liked but hoping that the genes she carries have come down more from the sire line. Pair 11: Goldenface(sf) Coablt x Opaline Sky This cock produced a lovely Grey Hen paired to the mother of the Danish splits but was too young to use yet. This Opaline hen is a daughter of the cock from pair 2 out of a loaned hen with great feather and was the second best daughter produced. So hopeing here that the hen has some good genetics to add and hope I get a few GF's to go on with from this pairing. Pair 12: Cinnamon Dilute Grey(sf) Green x Cinnamon Dilute Lt Green/Dilute Grand-father grand-daughter pairing. This cock is 2004 bred and did not fill an egg last year. I was set to retire him but he was showing such interest this year I have given him a shot. He is by far the best BES in the place and I have paired him to his grand-daughter in the hope that the genetics behind the cock bird are strong enough and in enough quantity within the hen that I can get a couple of good BES on the perch. Cross your fingers folks. Pair 13: Spangle Cinnamon Grey Green x Spangle Opaline Grey Green Cock is a smashing G&G bred bird and the hen is from over east. Hoping they click and maybe get a few spangle df's. Pair 14: Sky/Dilute x Dilute Lt Green/Blue Ther hen last year was used to upgrade the Clearwing line and I subsequently found out she was split for blue. As I am rather fond of blue series Dilutes I am using this pairing to produce Sky Dilutes. Hoping the Flannagan cock bird produces better tham himself. Pair 15: Cinnamon Dilute Grey(sf) Green x Cinnamon Dilute Lt Green Brother Sister pairing of the best coloured birds in the BES line. This is a bit experimental this pairing. Pair 16: Lt Green/Clearwing, Blue x Clearwing Dk Green Last I bred some really good Clearwing splits so time to use this year with visuals to try and upgrade size. The hen was from a really clean albeit smaller pair of clearwings and of the three rounds produced she was the biggest but not the cleanest nor were her wings good shape so I have paired her to this cock with neat wings. Pair 17: Clearwing Violet(sf) Cobalt x Dk Green/Clearwing, Blue T2 Cock bird is rather clean, hen is not. Cock has neater wings, hen does not. As the hen is a split Blue Type 2 I have a 21% chance to produce Mauve and 3% chance for Olive. Pair 18: Cinnamon Sky Blue x Cinnamon Grey Green Not quite sure if this pairing will work in this box. It is not ideally set up in it's current location. They are the only pair that has not gone in the nest box.

I was not raising the deformity issue but rather addressing a post to which the this issue had be posed in the light that it always is, that being bad and negative and don't do it type stuff. Maybe read the whole thread to see what I was referring too. Budgeman I am well aquainted with the writings of Robertson. I have Budgerigar world issues from the beginning through to about 2002 from memory.

Dave inbreeding in itself is not the cause of deformities. Deformities can be appear in complety unrelated individuals. Cause of deformities are also not necessarily genetic but can be cause through error at any point in the creation of the organisim. The pairing of closely related individuals is required to increase potency of particular genetic traits. However having said that it can also produce traits which you are not after but you don't know what you are going to get untill you do it. Currently amongst the pairs I have started breeding for 2011 is the following closely related individuals. brother and sister (both are progeny of the father in the next pairing) daughter to father granddaughter to grandfather (Sire line)

I have reported the add to gumtree so will see what happens.

Cause I am short of time at the minute I have found a piece from an article on avian anatomy. Also a link to an article on Glass as a hazard for birds. The pics of the windows are so real that it is impossible for a bird not to think that they are flying into a nature scene. http://labanimals.awionline.org/pubs/Quarterly/04_53_4/534p4_5.htm "Since the neck forms an "S" curve, it protrudes forward in the front, above the level of the crop. Often, this may be mistaken for a tumor or abnormality in the neck, especially when the crop is empty and the bird is sitting comfortably. Because the neck has more vertebrae than a human's and mammal's, the avian neck is extremely flexible, mobile and strong. We've all seen how easily a owl can turn its head so much farther around than we can. When a bird is comfortably restrained by an avian vet, the head and/or neck is held. The neck is considered one of the strongest parts of a bird's body, and it is almost impossible to injure a bird by holding it by the neck (as long as the windpipe is not closed off), let alone break its neck, when it is properly restrained. Often, people think, when they pick up a limp, dead bird, that it must have broken its neck, because the neck is so limber. It rarely is the cause of death. Birds that fly into a window or other solid structure may die, often of a concussion or other trauma, but in all my years of practice, I have only seen two birds with fractures of the cervical vertebrae." Reference: 2006 Margaret A. Wissman, D.V.M., D.A.B.V.P.

How stupid was that? Forgetting the link. See what happens when you quickly post something just before flying out the door. http://www.birdscreen.com/PDF/Klem_AFO_Injuries1990.pdf

It is often posted on forums and regulary spoken about when birds having a 'night fright' or flying into windows and other objects about the home. However there is little evidence to support this. The avian neck is a highly mobile peice of equipment and a dead bird nearly always presnts with a floppy neck. This is quite normal. I done some digging around and came across some research to share with you good folks. There are some pics in this article shows birds with skulls exposed so if you are squeemish the pics are at the end of the article. Please enjoy.

Cooking oil will do the trick. It is cheap and readily available in the home. It works by suffocating the mites.

Looks like a nice size avairy. Good luck.

thank you for that rip next question was my out come for the breeding expectations correct i know you would know definitely @ k&m just you re-posted the exact link i posted with the exact infomation so seemed you did not read any off the other posts people on here have a habit of not reading everything from top to bottom and just answering the first question and skipping everything all others added or say this does my head just sometimes i wonder why i or others bother to try help we either get told we are wrong or the exact thing we say is said by another and our posts just passed by No GB, your first statement was correct. I feel that your wording was not read correctly for if it was then you would n't been deemed wrong. I too getting a bit peeved that people don't read all replys. Hence why I don't answer a lot of posts. If the correct answer has already been given then why bother parroting the same information. Example this thread the correct answer was given many times so I have just added extra info for the inquirer and all who wish to know. Here is a little bit more. It is my understanding from talking to breeders of Slates that the green series birds are also altered in colour but the visual 'slate' that is expected as per the name is truly seen on the blue series bird.

Slate and Ino are non-allelic in nature. The recombinant frequency of these two loci is 10%.

It is quite normal for Opalines to show this in the secondary and main tail feathers but not usually to this extreme. K&M your Opaline is quite normal. The white patch in wing is what is termed a 'wing mirror'. It is a typical feature of Opalines. In Australian Parrots their is an under-wing stripe. Whent the Opaline mutation is present in the Australian parrots the under-wing stripe is extended to the first primary flights in such a way it is visable on the top-side of the wing.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your stay. Sorry, but I couldn't read the whole lot right through. I really hate it when people don't break up their writings into paragraphs. No offense, it's just one of those things that bug me. Quakers, I love them but can't have them in Western Australia.

This bird was hashed out on another forum to the conclusion it was most likely a Dutch Pied with a small amount of frosting evident. Recessive Pieds are what is classed as an anti-dimorphic pied mutation which basically mean that the areas that show the sexual features are altered, i.e. the cere. If a non anti-dimorphic bird is in combination with a anti-dimorphic one the latter will dominate in regards sexual features. As I have said many times, with dominant pieds the iris rings can be 'pied out' like any other part of the bird including the cere, feet and even beak on rare occasions. Kas your dom pied should have either been reclassed or disqualified as it did not meet the requirement for the class.

At this point the chick is looking like a spangle with a head spot.

What also happens is that breeders don't always keep accurate records and don't always record everything. It is possible the cock bird was bred from a normal bird that was split but because the breeder couldn't see it and/or is one of the aformentioned believes the bird is not split. Persoanlly any cock I get I always assume it to be split for Cinnamon and Opaline.

Hen

The bird is definately a Dominant Pied GF Spangle, that much is sure. As for the Greywing.....he has far to bright a body colour and cheek patch for the Greywing. I am not convinced by the pics that it is any Greywing at all. Spangle markings can vary considerably from quite pale to heavily marked like the other in the photo.

This is a picture of Slip Catch's progeny, Lavender Fields.

That be him. I got those photos but didn't have the time to scan and upload. I also have photos of two of his roan daughters called Odd Colours and Slip Catch. On Monday I went down to Larkhill Trials to catch up with the trainer of Slip Catch's daughter, Lavender fields, who is a roan also. Got a few nice pics of her and will going down to the property to get some more pics of her before she heads back to the owner as she ain't gonna make a very good racehorse. I will be cathing up with the breeder and hope to get more photos of Catch A Bird and his daughters. That forum discussion states that Catch A Bird was the only brindle TB which after his DNA typing was proven to be incorrect and Brindle horses have a different hair growth in the bridle area and Catch A Bird did not have that. 'Birdcatcher Spots' have nothing to do with brindle inheritance. The TB studbook does not allow for odd coloured horses and in fact Lavender Fields is listed as bay making it very hard to track back with these things. One has to reply on extra info written elsewhere.

Technically it is a halfsider. Another term in Chimera. The name halfsider should really be dropped as by reference it gives the person a visual image of a bird that is delineated down the centre and is different on each side. Chimeras are genetically all the same but the visual component will vary. Genetically this bird is Spangle and Greywing but the colour is another issue. Phenotypically he is Green and Blue with a Grey factor on the green section. The bird was more then likely going to be a Grey Green split for Blue but then "glitch" as nubbs puts it occoured causing the blue to be visual rather than hidden. If the bird is a true Chimera it will contain both sets of chromosomes. Only way to know is by breedig or DNA typing. DNA typing unfortunately is not an option as the genenome needs to be mapped first in order to know where to find the particular sequences your looking for. An good example of a Chimera can be found in the Western Australian Thoroughbred (TB) racing industry. A stallion called Catch A Bird was born with the most unusal markings and it was always thought he was a brindle with what was called "Birdcatcher Spots". The spots vary enormously from just a few to so many that they join to look like stripes. This stallion stood at stud and produced 4 Roans, the only time roans have appeared in TB's. Roan is a dominant gene in horse and so it was a bit of a pickle as where it had orignated from as the stallion was a bay. Many years down the track he was DNA typed and found to have two sets of chromosomes. So he can produce bays in his image or he can produce roans. He has never passed on his spots however.

Don't forget people what you see is not the real thing in a photo. Ratzy did you use a flash? Looks like you did. This will alter the colour since colour produced in parrot feathers is in part cause by constructive interference by the electromagnectic spectrum.