Chrysocome
-
Posts
607 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Chrysocome
-
-
I've never heard a sound like that myself, but I'm suspicious it's to do with her respiratory system, maybe something increasing the resistance in her windpipe/airways. This could be due to thickening, secretions or even a foreign body (such as a seed husk) for example. It may be due to pressure from a different part of the body, such as the crop pushing on it or like Kaz suggested the thyroids (iodine deficiency). With the part how it gets worse you are around: whenever she has to breathe faster/harder, such as stress or excitement, the air has to move faster through the area with resistance and it makes a louder noise.
Good luck at the vet's, please let us know how it goes.
-
I am so so sorry Carmen. You did everything you could for him. We understand how you feel, and please do not hesitate to post here if you need to. We are here for you.
Fly free little Chomper.
I disagree very strongly about the difference between male and female vets. I think in this case it was just differences in personality. Some of my male colleagues are way more empathic than any of the rest of us girls! Every single human being is different. There are 'good' and there are 'bad' in many ways.
Even though I don't agree with what was done, I found your comment about vets very offensive Richo. People are not their jobs. People are people.
I believe the vet you went to is open on Saturday and Sunday until 12, so it was half a day with no feed for both days, not the entire weekend as I think it has been interpreted. I still believe in coming in for a critical patient though. The other bird vet that was mentioned does come in on weekends to crop feed even though they don't even open on Saturday, sometimes he takes them home if he can't come in.
I'm not sure what happened here, but I'd like to add that vets are in the job of relieving suffering... sometimes even though an animal is surviving, prolonging their life when the prognosis is grave can be painful (in a different way, in addition to feeling empathy for the owner) for vets (who are obviously very tuned into animal welfare or else we wouldn't pick this job!). Not applying it to this situation, but just adding a thought.
-
Two legs are needed for take off when they want to fly away. If she (or he) is putting one leg up it means she's comfortable :rofl:
If she is using it normally otherwise when she is getting around, and only puts her leg up when resting, then it's perfectly normal and a sign that she is feeling safe and comfortable.
-
So I had my big three hour birds exam today.
The cage and aviary medicine topic was on....
Scaly face! HAHA! What a breeze!
Sometime nice finally came my way. I'm going to ignore the collective disasters that were horses, alpacas, dogs and cats.
4 down, 4 to go, 4 days left. I can't wait til exams are over and I can SLEEP.
Eight exams in nine days is cruelty, it should be illegal!
-
Yep, they can see into the ultraviolet. Their facial feathers actually reflect UV so to each other, their faces stand out - they use it to choose mates, and they probably use it to be able to find each other while travelling/foraging and stay with their flock.
Parrot type birds can definitely see colour, they need it to be able to pick out the best fruit and flowers at just the right time - I know the lorikeets always descend on my gum tree that one day a year, just when it's flowering. It would also help them distinguish between toxic and edible plants.
Many trained birds are able to do basic puzzles where they put colours together, and they can also say the names of colours. Type in "Alex the parrot" into youtube and see his amazing cognitive ability.
My budgies go nuts at the sight of green, even if it's actually a bit of material or paper, because they think it's their veggies. They are comforted by green, yellow, blue and pink objects because that's what's in their cage, but are freaked by red and black even if it's the same type of item.
Maybe your shirt reflects UV and they like it!
-
Budgies in the wild have three basic activity states during the day: travelling/foraging, resting/maintenance and socialising. Socialising can be of two forms - in the breeding season they settle down with their mate and devote all their time to reproduction, which for the female includes destroying things. In the non breeding season, they would be socialising in a big group with all their flock mates. The things that influence what puts a budgie into breeding season mode is hours of light (including artificial light), plenty of readily available food (and water), their flock mates going off in pairs, and a nesting area. While the right stimuli are there, they will stay in breeding condition.
Some ways to take a budgie out of breeding mode is to have fewer hours of light, which includes artificial light, and also includes the light that escapes under the covers if the bird is still in a lit room. Perhaps a better definition is actually hours of dark. My suggestion is to put them in their own room at night where the lights can be completely out, since the current daylight hours are decreasing naturally. I also feel that even when covered and there is activity/light in the room, they don't actually sleep, I think they find it a bit disturbing when all this stuff is happening that they can't see.
Discourage the "nesting area" concept and simulate "foraging" by moving the cage every week or completely rearranging all their furniture inside at least weekly. This helps simulate a constantly changing environment as the birds forage in the wild. This also takes away the idea that the cage is their territory, as it is during the breeding seaon. Take the spaceship toy out as it encourages her to think it is her nesting area and we need to encourage the idea that thay are "travelling".
Having plenty of food in a bowl that is easily accessible allows them to be on a maximum plane of nutrition. Although this also stimulates breeding mode, we don't want to take that away because it is good for them. But, having it so readily available also takes away the "foraging" part of their day and allows them to devote it to maintenance or socialising (in bigger parrots, they can go into "maintenance" overload and start over-preening and plucking. Budgies don't do this so much, and tend to go towards resting or socialising). I suggest lots of captive foraging, making her look for her food and work for it a little to distract her and also to put her into the "foraging" mode for longer during the day. Have a look in our food and nutrition section for ideas on captive foraging.
If they spend lots of time alone during the day, try to interact and socialise with them to encourage the idea that they are a flock, rather than a breeding pair. This involves them accepting you as flock members.
All birds are different and we all offer them different environments. By thinking about natural behaviour/environment we can at least try to influence their behaviour in an artificial environment.
-
*blinks* I could have sworn she said selamectin, but maybe she actually meant cydectin. I trust you know your drenches well, and you are right now that I think about it (forgive me, I've been studying dogs and cats all week.. largies aren't my forte). I'll have to go to the pharmacy and look it up when exams are over.
In any case.... I'd stick with ivermectin.
-
Can you work out where he is bleeding, is it coming from his beak edges, his tongue or from further inside his mouth? As Daz said he may have just hurt himself somehow. I assume he has stopped bleeding for now. Is he showing any other signs of illness? What is his alertness like? Are any others affected? As Daz said the others may not have tried chewing on it yet. Are there signs of the bark or leaves being chewed?
Can you post bigger pictures please?
Let him rest, make sure he has access to plenty of water, ring an avian vet and take him there as soon as you can.
Edit: I'm trying to find my list of dangerous plants and what they do.
All I can find at the moment between cramming for exams is the "false acacia" is documented to cause vomiting and muscle tremors.
-
Why is there still the persistance that these birds die young. It has been shown on many occasions with proper care they can last for quite some time. I bred and researched them for a number of years. It is most likely a genetic defect as stated in this thread and as far as I know that has not be proven scientifically but it may well be a good guess. It is not a disease!
From what I understand, they certainly don't live a normal lifespan.
I guess it depends on your definition of "disease". Genetic defects can cause "disease" in my book because it causes severe impairment of normal body functions. Perhaps "disorder" is more apporpriate.
Can I ask what research you have done? I'm interested in knowing more about them. I have often heard that it is a trisomy defect, where the chromosomes do not divide properly in the gametes. I don't know if there is scientific proof of this.
-
Is PDF terminal? I mean are the parrots guaranteed a cruel and painful death? Is there any chance that they can build up immunity?
Sadly, circovirus weakens theirr immune system. Some people call it "bird AIDS". We can provide palliative care and make them as safe as we can, but eventually they succumb to infections that they would normally tolerate/fight off. Since it's such a hardy virus, the carrier would remain a source of infection to all birds.
Looking after one can be done, with a lot of dedication, but it is a continued threat to all the other birds. I have seen people with single birds that live for quite a long time, but inevitably their life spans are shortened. There are only a handful of BFD survivors who made it with lots of care and support. One option I have seen before is that the favourite single bird is adopted out to someone else who does not currently own birds but is very willing to provide all the love, care and precuations, however it means that property is contaminated.
Kaz ((((((hugs))))))
-
The exotics vet at my uni uses a related compound called selamectin from an extremely diluted cattle drench. (I know this is also in some of the drugs you mentioned above). BUT I would not do this without the advice of a bird vet with an exotic animal drug formulary, as I don't know the dose rate and it appears to be extremely different to what is used for ivermectin. (Our vet had to look it up and only used it because it is the only drench available in our pharmacy). I don't know about the ones you mentioned, it is likely that there is not enough scientific or veterinary anecdotal evidence to warrant their use, especially in non-mammalian species with completely different physiology and thus metabolism/effects/excretion. (Also, those drugs listed above have multiple compounds, none of which have been specifically tested in birds, and much less different types of birds).
Please note that ivermectin is not registered for use in birds, which means the drug company hasn't done any registration tests for their safety and effects (good and bad) in birds. Non-registered drug use is based on scientific theory with clinical evidence rather than actual drug trials. Ivermectin is widely used by bird vets and there is enough veterinary anecdotal evidence for its use. This is probably the reason why other drugs are not used as extensively.
-
Kaz, what the vet said about budgies tending to get French moult is right. But I urge you to please practice good hygiene between the affected aviary and others. Budgies can get full blown PFBD, it is rare and probably has a lot of other factors involved. Circovirus can also weaken their immune systems, so they are less tolerant of other disesaes like megabacteria and trichomonas, etc. It is not a great risk in them, I suppose the vet isn't worried because nothing has shown up in them so far. Still a little bit of extra effort will do no harm. I just hate the thought of anything else making your situation worse
Here is a severely affected budgie: http://www.birds-online.de/gesundheit/gesg...der/pbfd_en.htm
-
That sounds very sensible Krosp. I am not sure what happened but I wrote this earlier and the computer ate it:
I agree that it's a personal choice. Practicality versus the risks you are willing to take. This is something only you can decide, really. As you know, the minimum advised here is 30 days in separate rooms with washing of hands before and after contact the new bird. How much more you do than that, really depends on your own situation and preference.
In our pet budgies the diseases we are worried about are mainly carried via faeces and secretions (which can aerosolise and be in the air). Separate flight rooms means less chance of contamination and also forces you to think about quarantine because you have a physical barrier. (Otherwise it is very easy to be lax/forget about it). The rest, I think it depends on how risky you think it is.
For my budgies a few years ago, I did 60 days, washed hands, separate flight areas, but did not change clothes and had the same seed. I would do it differently now, mainly because of just how far we've come in terms of bonding and taming. (And I admit it: I'm getting more and more paranoid as I see more and more sick birds in my course as a vet student!)
When Oz, my conure, was in quarantine I took no chances. My main concerns were circovirus (it generally does not cause severe signs in budgies, but on the one (very low) chance that I get full blown beak and feather, I do not risk it at all) and Chlamydia (which can be carried asymptomatically for up to years(!)). Both are carried in faeces, Chlamydia can be aerosolised and circo is in feather dust. To me, what was a bit of extra effort, when one slip up could end up in a lot of regret? So I did the full 90 day quarantine in separate flight rooms with strict hygiene. My main problem was that my family will not allow the birds upstairs and the only acceptable rooms were quite near each other, so I was particularly strict. Yes I changed my clothes in between having them on my shoulder, I tried to interact with my budgies first and put on a different top to interact with the new bird (and took it off after). Even now I still have (mostly) budgie rooms and conure rooms, although I'm less strict about it now. Their feed and toys were kept in separate areas.
Was it excessive? Well it was a pain in the butt sometimes! But for me the extra effort was worth it to keep my budgies as safe as possible. It is going to be different for everyone.
So it really depends on how practical it is for you versus how much risk you are willing to take. Others and myself in the past have done only basic (or no) quarantine and gotten away with it. It does not necessarily mean it won't happen to you, and how much you put into quarantine will determine how much risk there is. (And even then we have non-symptomatic carriers or long incubation periods, so there is no promise that quarantine is going to stop disease getting in! All these things we do to decrease the likelihood of disease, that is the point of quarantine).
-
I'd just like to add that UV lamps stop producing sufficient UV after about six months, so you need to replace the bulbs every six months.
-
I have the waterless handcleaner disinfectant for hands. Can you suggest a strong disinfectant for the aviary ? As we will be moving the parrots into a holding aviary while we clean up the main aviary.
My first thought is a disinfectant called F10, I am not sure where you can get it other than from the vet.
-
Oh Kaz I have tears, I am so sorry :what: How simply awful for you both. The timing is terrible.
Circovirus is extremely fastitidious in the environment and is shed in feather dander. As you know, very strict hygiene is needed, will need to blast the aviaries with a strong disinfect. I hope the budgies will be safe, as they can carry it and keep infecting your non budgie birds.
I can't believe this has happened
I hope the losses are kept right down, your pet is safe, and that both you and Ken will be okay. You are all in my thoughts.
-
Oh, I'm falling for your little one too
Regarding the yahoo group, honestly I turn off all the emails. What is really useful is their information section, there's a lot to wade through, but it will help you get started. (Alternatively, if you pm me your email address I can send you my collection of articles/instructions if you like?)
Milly and Squee aren't up to much lately. I stopped the regular progression a little while back as uni intensified in the lead up to exams. I still reinforce the click and the target, and occasionally the ball/cup stuff, but we haven't done anything new for a while. When exams are over, I'll keep a regular log again. Next thing I want to do is attach the cup to a backboard so it looks like a basketball net
-
Aw, what a sweetie. He sounds exactly like my Squee when I first got her (in fact, it was the reason I got her - she came right up to me and nibbled anything I offerred, out of curiosity).
I am so pleased you've been inspired by Squee's adventures and I am really really looking forward to seeing what you both up to. Please keep a log of it here
I also highly recommend joining the bird-click group on yahoo, there is a link in the first post in Squee's thread. There is a huge repository of informatoin about clicking, including what to teach first (for example, they don't advocate learning step up first because it encourages them to 'beg' anytime you are around and you don't want to keep reinforcing that. Always start with targetting, using something you can take away and hide when you don't want to be training).I personally would have left him alone for a few days to let him adjust to the new world around him. It is easy to rush into these things, but I think at the start it is important to establish trust and understanding. Though it seems he has already accepted the changes pretty fast!
I have another caution with a bird like this, although I see it more in larger bird species, but be very careful of over bonding (my conure gets very stressed when I leave the room and throws tantrums - I have to keep him busy with TV, captive foraging and lots of toys. I'm scared he'll turn into a feather plucker. Obviously not as common in budgies but be aware of their need for social contact and companionship).
You clearly love him already. I am sure you will both have an amazing time together
"Twitter" - this is pure win. Pure, pure win.
-
Oz is a silly chooken. He loves cuddles, snuggles and hiding. He's decided that his favourite place in the world (aside from pretending to be a scarf on my neck) is under the blanket on my lap while I study.
Sometimes I wonder what on earth that little bird is thinking.
-
I've given mine tiny amounts (they were stuck to bread) and I've seen it as part of budgie mixes and recipes so I assume so.
However, I believe they are very high in fat (they feel oily and we get sesame oil from it) so I would only give it as a treat.
-
It was my understanding that lice are pretty host specific, even between species of birds, unless they are highly infested and are in close constant contact all day. I supppose it could happen in this case.
As for treating nits, these are lice as well, so they would probably be susceptible to the same chemicals.
One way to find lice is to spread the wing feathers under the light. You can see them as small specks amongst the feathers .
-
Honestly, if your budgie is picky they just eat around the "good stuff". Some of those seeds are very high in fat - namely sesame, sunflower, safflower and peanuts and I bet they will pick these out and eat them first because they taste the best (think Macca's for humans). Also, I see it has a lot of fruit (apple, banna, papaya, currants) which is probably dried and mostly made of sugar. If you give seed ad lib their diet will become mostly fatty seeds and they will ignore everything else. Why not put your money and effort into teaching them to eat fresh food instead? That way you know it's good, and you can monitor and control how much if it they are eating.
The only bird I would give this to would be one I know will try everything new in there, otherwise most of it would go to waste, BUT I would be too concerned about all the fatty seeds. You would have the same problem with your veggies in that they will refuse to eat the new stuff amd some will go to waste. But you would need to move onto veggies anyway, so better off focusing on feeding veggies instead.
-
The decision to clip is very personal. It's a balance between what you want for yourself and what you want for your birds. Here are a list of pros and cons I compiled from this site and others.
Reasons to allow full flight:
-Flighted birds can escape quickly from danger, such as another pet or an owner that is unaware of the bird’s location – prevention is essential but accidents can happen.
-Exercise can be a significant problem in caged pet birds. Flight is often the best way to maintain healthy body condition.
-Flighted birds, once tamed, tend to be more confident and outgoing. This is opposed to a clipped bird that has accepted that it is ‘less fit’ or ‘inferior’ because it cannot achieve full flight, and is thus more submissive.
-Clipping prevents full flight, impeding the bird’s natural mode of locomotion and escape – some may consider this to be unacceptable.
Reasons to clip:
-Safety from (sometimes fatal) collisions into windows and walls at full speed, although given time they will learn to avoid these
-Safety from other dangers such as toilets, fish tanks, cooking (as above, accidents can happen)
-Birds are less likely to escape out a window or door that has been left open
-Less stress and fear (for the bird) and frustration (for the owner) caused by chasing a bird around the room in an attempt to catch it
-Clipped birds are easier to tame compared to a flighted bird because the owner is always in control BUT it is not a guarantee and a flighted bird can be tamed
-Clipped birds can still hop, climb, leap, and glide like a flighted bird, the only difference is that it cannot gain as much height or speed. Correctly clipped birds can maintain quite a bit of horizontal distance before slowly losing altitude.
I have two beautiful budgies that have never been clipped in their lives and we all adore each other. They are incredibly tame and they can fly. (Side note - mine don't tend to want to fly around very much - we have a constant problem with weight control.)
I have a conure that I decided to wing clip when I adopted him to control his (very nasty) biting to see if it would make a difference. He istantly turned into a cuddle hog that sleeps on my neck pretending he's a scarf. I now have to toss up between letting his wings grow back because he's starting to fly and he loves it, but he can still be vicious to any blonde or brunette women and I don't want him to be able to fly at them.
You could compromise and do a partial trim, so they can still fly some distance, but are easier to catch/control and therefore tame.
-
That's a "feather duster" budgie. It's a genetic mutation where their feathers don't stop growing. Unfortunately this causes their deaths early in life.
If you do a search on this forum for feather dusters you will find more about them.
How Do They Do It?
in Budgie Talk
Posted · Edited by Chrysocome
It is really complicated, but I can tell you the gist of it, extrapolating from what I know of mammalian reproductive cycles. I know it must be similar, because we use the same hormone in birds as we do for the mammals to help them stop laying/coming into season.
It is initiated by a series of environmental inputs including plenty of food and water, temperature, the presence of a male, mating rituals, vocalisation, and the length of day. For example, in mammals a hormone called melotonin is excreted in the absence of light. Melotonin acts on the hypothalamus, an area in the brain which you might call Hormone Central. Melotonin affects different species differently. In sheep it is decreasing daylight that initiates the reproductive hormones, so they breed in autumn. In horses it is increasing daylight, so they breed in spring. I assume budgies must be increasing daylight breeders. I have also read that bird brains can directly tell how much light there is through their eyes and through their skull!
Many hormones interact at three basic levels: hypothalamus -> pituitary -> target organ. The way the three interact is intricately linked. In the case of reproductive hormones, the hypothalamus secretes GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hromone) to turn on the pituitary, which secrets LH (luteinising hormone) and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) to target the gonads to produce testosterone (males), oestrogen or progesterone (for females. In mammals, these relate to being "in heat" and "being pregnant").
Oestrogen initiates a series of events including readiness for the ovaries to ovulate (release an unfertilised egg for fertilisation), and other preparations for the oviduct to prepare for egg laying/chick production. The presence of oestrogen also targets the hypothalamus, telling it to turn on and produce more oestrogen (if conditions are right and other hormones are increasing/decreasing) or turn off (again in the right conditions, the switching off of the original hormone by the last hormone is called "negative feedback"). I won't go into further detail, but it is a very delicate play between all these hormones. In males, testosterone enlarges the testes and induces them to manufacture sperm.
So a budgie may breed but its reproductive tract will not be ready, and this readiness depends on external and internal factors turning hormones on and off. It affects both males and females.
In birds and other mammals, there is an implant we can use that mimics GnRH, which initiates the cascade and then turns itself off (negative feedback). This is used in some chronic egg laying birds to stop that hormone cascade and to tell their bodies that it is not the right season.
Contrary to your original statement, in mammals that aren't primates, the environment can play a huge role. If you mate them in the wrong season they will be completely infertile, and if you mate them when conditions aren't quite right you will get poor results. As I've mentioned, sheep and horses depend on daylight. In the horse breeding industry where there is pressure to produce a foal each year, some studs will leave the lights on until 11pm to make the horses' brains think that the day length is long and therefore shorten the period where they aren't ready to mate. There are things like the ram or stallion factor, where the mere presence of the male can make a female go into heat (we call it "teasing" where a vasectomised male is put in with the females, he still produces testosterone but is unable to impregnate the females).
I hope that helped a little, it is based more on mammals, but I think it is very similar. If you would like me to clarify something, I will try my best.
http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/avianreproduction.html has a nice diagram regarding the three levels of hormones I was talking about.