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What Mutation Might This Budgie Be?


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its completly yellow with black eyes no iris rings, is it a df spangle or a dark eye clear ? the budgie is a 2 yr old male

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No visible iris ring, i would say dark eyed clear. All spangle double factors that i have seen have had visible iris rings.

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No visible iris ring, i would say dark eyed clear. All spangle double factors that i have seen have had visible iris rings.

 

thank you so much for the info really appreciate it

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Double factor spangles that are masking recessive pied are very common and they look identical to a dark eyed clears. Neither will have an iris ring and males of both types have pink ceres. The only way to tell them apart is by breeding results

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Double factor spangles that are masking recessive pied are very common and they look identical to a dark eyed clears. Neither will have an iris ring and males of both types have pink ceres. The only way to tell them apart is by breeding results

 

if i were to pair it up to a ino female would that be a good choice?

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Double factor spangles that are masking recessive pied are very common and they look identical to a dark eyed clears. Neither will have an iris ring and males of both types have pink ceres. The only way to tell them apart is by breeding results

 

if i were to pair it up to a ino female would that be a good choice?

 

Because you can't tell what mutations the ino is masking it might not prove anything.

 

If the ino is not masking anything or split for anything, you could expect clearflight pieds and normals from a dark eyed clear, and all spangles from a double factor spangle.

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Double factor spangles that are masking recessive pied are very common and they look identical to a dark eyed clears. Neither will have an iris ring and males of both types have pink ceres. The only way to tell them apart is by breeding results

 

if i were to pair it up to a ino female would that be a good choice?

 

Because you can't tell what mutations the ino is masking it might not prove anything.

 

If the ino is not masking anything or split for anything, you could expect clearflight pieds and normals from a dark eyed clear, and all spangles from a double factor spangle.

 

If you personally had a bird like mine to what other bird would you personally pair it up to, in order to try and find out some back ground from the bird by bredding it

thanks

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I'd pair it to a normal, that way it's easier to work out what mutation it is from the results.

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I'd pair it to a normal, that way it's easier to work out what mutation it is from the results.

 

okay thanks ill give that a try in a few weeks :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well here's something to consider. If he really is a DF spangle that is masking recessive pied, and you breed him to a normal that is not split to recessive pied, then all the chicks will be split to recessive pied, but you won't be able to see that. (They will also all be spangles, and any spots on the backs of the heads could be a spangle thing, not neccessarily a "split to rec pied" thing.)

 

But if you are able to use a normal hen that you know to be split to recessive pied, then you could expect half the chicks to come out as recessive pied spangles. That won't exactly PROVE that he's masking recessive pied, just that he's at least split to it. But it might at least give you another piece of evidence.

 

If you do this, and he turns out to actually be a dark eyed clear, you should be able to tell, because there shouldn't be any spangles. (Unless he's masking single factor spangle.) But you would be able to get clearflight pieds who are split to recessive pied, and also more dark eyed clears. And maybe even normals that are split to recessive pied, and plain old visual recessive pieds, too.

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Well here's something to consider. If he really is a DF spangle that is masking recessive pied, and you breed him to a normal that is not split to recessive pied, then all the chicks will be split to recessive pied, but you won't be able to see that. (They will also all be spangles, and any spots on the backs of the heads could be a spangle thing, not neccessarily a "split to rec pied" thing.)

 

But if you are able to use a normal hen that you know to be split to recessive pied, then you could expect half the chicks to come out as recessive pied spangles. That won't exactly PROVE that he's masking recessive pied, just that he's at least split to it. But it might at least give you another piece of evidence.

 

If you do this, and he turns out to actually be a dark eyed clear, you should be able to tell, because there shouldn't be any spangles. (Unless he's masking single factor spangle.) But you would be able to get clearflight pieds who are split to recessive pied, and also more dark eyed clears. And maybe even normals that are split to recessive pied, and plain old visual recessive pieds, too.

 

I was thinking about pairing it with this hen

mygirlsmom.jpg

GEDC0019.jpg

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Hmm. Do you know for sure whether this hen is a dominant pied or a clearflight pied? Sometimes it can be tricky to tell the two pieds apart. From her back I'd say dominant, but I don't know what her front looks like.

 

With her, you will get 50% pied chicks (whichever kind of pied she is). That could mess up the results of your test breeding, because you won't be able to rule out whether the chicks could have gotten it from the father OR the mother.

 

So if the father turns out to be a dark eyed clear, he will give the clearflight pied gene to half of the chicks. (Plus they will all be split to recessive pied.) So for the outcomes, you would expect 25% of the chicks to get a pied gene from the father and no pied gene from the mother. 25% will get the mother's pied gene, but not the father's one. 25% will get pied genes from BOTH parents, which would be either DF clearflight pied or a clearflight, dom pied combo. And then the last 25% would get no pied gene from either parent.

 

So I'm just saying that if you are trying to figure out the pied genes of the father, it can get pretty muddy if you use a hen who also throws some pied into the mix. :)

 

 

 

By the way, I just looked back, and you've never said what color cere the cock has. I'm guessing it's pink, to go along with the lack of iris rings. :D

Edited by Finnie
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Hmm. Do you know for sure whether this hen is a dominant pied or a clearflight pied? Sometimes it can be tricky to tell the two pieds apart. From her back I'd say dominant, but I don't know what her front looks like.

 

With her, you will get 50% pied chicks (whichever kind of pied she is). That could mess up the results of your test breeding, because you won't be able to rule out whether the chicks could have gotten it from the father OR the mother.

 

So if the father turns out to be a dark eyed clear, he will give the clearflight pied gene to half of the chicks. (Plus they will all be split to recessive pied.) So for the outcomes, you would expect 25% of the chicks to get a pied gene from the father and no pied gene from the mother. 25% will get the mother's pied gene, but not the father's one. 25% will get pied genes from BOTH parents, which would be either DF clearflight pied or a clearflight, dom pied combo. And then the last 25% would get no pied gene from either parent.

 

So I'm just saying that if you are trying to figure out the pied genes of the father, it can get pretty muddy if you use a hen who also throws some pied into the mix. :)

 

 

 

By the way, I just looked back, and you've never said what color cere the cock has. I'm guessing it's pink, to go along with the lack of iris rings. :D

 

Her front is all skyblue just like her back, she has produced cinammon chicks aswell with a diff cock that didnt have any background of cinammon, yes the cocks cere is pink :) , im not god identifing pieds lol sorry

 

these are some chicks she has produced in the past when i paired her up with a normal

brother1-1.jpg

GEDC0009.jpg

babyblue-1.jpg

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Hi, just trying to get MY heard around mutations but if she produced cinn chicks and she's not visually cinn.

The cinn would be from the Cock as hens can't be split sex linked. Is that right or am I still wallowing?

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Yes Robyn, you are correct. Cock must have been split cinnamon and visual cinnamon chick from split cinnamon cock to non cinnamon hen would have to be a hen. You need cinnamon on both sides of pairing to get cinnamon cock birds.

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Great, that confirms my Cock bird is split cinn. also

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