Still Guessing Edward's Color

[FoxFire_Ga79 0]

So, since the last time I posted this question, Edward, formerly known as Lily, hasn't changed by much. I can't age him because he's pretty much all white and there are no bars on his mask to guess his age by. And his eyes aren't getting lighter colored iris rings. So here's a recap of his coloring:

He appears almost completely white. I didn't notice any markings on him for at least a week, and then it was by accident. He has a very faint shadow of blue on the very tips of some of the feathers on his rump. His feet and legs are solid pink, no bluish tint like my other budgies. His cere color changes from day to day. Some days it's a deep purple almost blue, and some days it's pink.

I've had him since January and his markings are a little more faint now than they were then. I really have to strain to see them. The one feather on his chest that had a slight blue tint at the tip is gone.

His eyes have no hint of a plum or a red color.

It's been mentioned he could be either a DF spangle or a recessive pied but personally I'm still stumped. I'm really hoping for DF spangle but I guess since his eyes aren't changing then he's probably recessive pied?

What colors can I expect from him when he's bred?

 

So here are some pics. I put arrows on one of them to show where the blue markings are in case they're too faint. And yes, I'm well aware I need to get my nails done soon lol It's on my to do list!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, whadda ya think?

[**KAZ** 0]

Double factor spangle with suffusion maybe

Edited April 2, 2011 by **KAZ**

[FoxFire_Ga79 0]

Oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh I really hope so!

[Squeak_Crumble 0]

DF Spangles will develop a blue cere and rings

[Neville 0]

It is common for white birds to show a tinge of colour. A male dark eyed clear will have a pink cere, orange beak, pink feet and will not develop iris rings, but dark eyed clears are not as common as double factor spangles. Just because he hasn't developed iris rings or a blue cere doesn't mean that he is not a double factor spangle but it probably means that the double factor spangle mutation is masking recessive pied. The only sure way to tell a dark eyed clear from a double factor spangle that is masking recessive pied is by breeding results

Edited April 2, 2011 by Neville

[Finnie 0]

You've only had him for a couple of months, so there is still time for him to develop iris rings and a blue cere. But here is my thoughts on what he might be: What other birds were there to choose from? If there were other spangles, but no recessive pieds or clearflight pieds, then I would lean towards DF spangle. But if there were no spangles, but there were a lot of recessive pieds and clearflight pieds, then I would lean towards DEC.

 

The reason I say this is because, and I know it may be different in Florida, but up here in Indiana, there are NEVER any spangles at all in the pet stores. The only ones I have been able to find have been from private breeders. But our pet stores are FULL of recessive pieds, clearflight pieds, and (presumably) dark eyed clears. (I really don't think the pet stores could have DF spangles without ever having any SF spangles.)

 

 

Of course, just watch, now that I've said that, I will start to see spangles in pet stores now! (Oh, I wish I had thought of saying this long ago, so I could have found some spangles. )

[FoxFire_Ga79 0]

Hey I like Neville's idea that Edward can possibly be both!

Yesterday I was back at the pet store I got Edward at and there have always been plenty of recessive pieds, and I've seen plenty of clearflight pieds there as well. I do not recall seeing a spangle there. I've seen dom pieds, recessive pieds, lutino's and albino's (Buttercup is a creamino but I got her at a different PetSmart) greywings, yellow faces, violets and so on there. Plenty of opalines. I got Epic there and she's a mauve.

 

Interestingly, when I was there yesterday I saw one that could have been Edward's clone. I did get pictures of him, but really since you've seen Edward you've seen this guy as well. I've asked an associate for breeder information but it's pointless. PetSmart gets their birds from a regional distributor, who gets their birds from smaller breeders. The birds are pooled together and shipped out as needed. Very few of these birds ever have leg bands. I'm never going to know who Edward's breeder is and what his parents are. Neville's right, I don't think I'm going to know for sure until I breed him.

 

Which of my girls do you think would be his best match? Nyxie is a sky blue opaline greywing, Abra is a light green opaline, and then there's Epic the mauve and Buttercup the creamino. I've been wanting to put Buttercup with either Toothless or Atlas since they are both yellow faces, and Epic with Echo because I read somewhere that mauve put with a violet factor makes some nice colors.

 

And if it turns out that Edward has no spangle in him, how would I go about finding a DF spangle? I really want one in my program, and I think a DF would give me 100% spangles in every clutch? Spangle has got to be the prettiest mutation of them all. My ultimate goal, if it's even possible, would be to get yellow faces that are cobalt or violet and opaline spangle. I'm not asking for much am I?? lol

 

Thanks for all the input. I am LOVING learning all this stuff!

 

Oh, I forgot to add. DEC was my first thought on Edward, but having black instead of plum colored eyes threw me off. UNLESS the plum coloring is ONLY in the pupil area and would not include the area over the iris? When I look at his eyes from a side angle in light there is a slight red/plum tint in the cornea over the pupil but still dark in the outer ring where the iris would be. I had always attributed this to actually being the blood vessels in the cornea, such as you would see in a photograph where someone has "red eye."

Is that the plum color of a DEC, or is that in fact the blood vessels?

[Finnie 0]

Oh hey, sorry that I thought you were in Florida. Can't scroll back and double check anymore, when we're replying. But I've been solving that problem by opening the post in two windows, and replying to one of them.

 

I have a hen that I think is a dark eyed clear, and I was thinking of breeding her to a recessive pied, because I figured I would get 50% recessive pieds, and 50% more dark eyed clears. But then I realized that maybe she could be double factored for the clearflight pied part, and then all I would get would be 100% dark eyed clear. Well, then I would know what she was, but I don't know if I want all DEC chicks. So now I think I might put her with a normal, or one that is split for recessive pied, and see what I get. Your hens all sound like normals (meaning not pied), so maybe any one of them would work well.

 

To find a DF spangle, have you tried to google it? Or google budgie breeders in your area, and sometimes local ad listings will come up. Two of my favorites are Hoobly and Ebay Classifieds. Or do a search for bird fairs or bird clubs.

 

I can't help you about the eye color. Unless it's an ino, they all look black to me. The only time I've seen plum eyes has been on newly hatched chicks, and then it goes away after a while.

[FoxFire_Ga79 0]

I've googled like you wouldn't believe trying to find a DF spangle budgie and I just can't find any! I've tried searching for private aviaries, I've gone to websites for birds for sale classifieds. It's pretty frustrating. And of course there are no bird fairs anywhere near me. They're all hours away! lol I'll end up having to take a road trip if I ever want a spangle.