Jump to content

Recent Clutch And Mutation/colour Check Please


Recommended Posts

So here is the latest clutch of 6 from Wild and Splotch. Splotch is a son of Pebbles and BamBam shown previously under "sexing some new babies" topic on this forum. I have included descriptions below but if there are any errors please feel free to correct me.

I will load a picture of the dad, Splotch at a future date but for now I believe he would be classified as a cobalt or violet pied split to ino and opaline. His mum BamBam was a violet opaline and his dad a recessive pied split to ino and dilute(greywing).

I think Wild is a Single Factor dominant pied but not sure how to describe her colour. Maybe yellow faced green?

2014-05-21171130_zps653406fd.jpg

Baby 1 - a single factor dominant pied but white face with blue markings. - female?

b5f2f7a5-d039-4661-91bc-ce9a232b5be9_zps2a3e03bd.jpg

2014-05-21171648_zps8437efc6.jpg

Baby 2 and Baby 3 - cobalt and a cobalt pieds - both male I think. One has a small white dot on back of head which what I think might make him a pied.

cc049bde-86d5-4ad9-bc5d-30ef4ebe311d_zps1c909564.jpg

Baby 4 - Albino - has to be a hen I believe as neither of the parents are ino and also this therefore must come from the dad.

2014-05-15160852_zps96b6afed.jpg

Baby 5 - Creamino - a bit of a surprise - I suspect this will also have to be a hen for the same reason as baby 4 but I must admit I expected that a creamino would come from a lutino/albino combination so nice surprise.

2014-05-15160808_zps7dd23ad7.jpg

2014-05-21084056_zps40e5958d.jpg

Baby 6 - my guess - an opaline single factor dominant pied cobalt - female. As I now believe that the dad splotch must be split to opaline since opaline is a sex-linked gene(carried by male) and his mum was in fact an opaline violet. Also I suspect that any opaline babies would have to be female as neither of the parents are opaline.

2014-05-21083935_zps3781d69d.jpg

2014-05-21083925_zpsf2d147d0.jpg

Please feel free to comment or offer any corrections on what I have written above as I am still learning mutations/colours.

Also to the moderators, I seem to have heaps of problems typing into the boxes on this forum as letters are left out so I usually resort to typing in a word doc then cutting and pasting. Is there another way around this?

Edited by Kaj
Link to comment
Share on other sites

and here is Splotch the dad

2014-05-22104323_zps66dc8ada.jpg

hard to photograph as he is always on the move - particularly with 6 babies to look after.

Edited by Kaj
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a beautiful clutch of chicks well done. Love the pics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Robyn,

 

Do you think I have the mutations and genders right?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Kaj, very nice clutch there! You have done quite well with your sex-linked genetics. :)

 

I will go back through and post my comments to various parts in blue.

 

So here is the latest clutch of 6 from Wild and Splotch. Splotch is a son of Pebbles and BamBam shown previously under "sexing some new babies" topic on this forum. I have included descriptions below but if there are any errors please feel free to correct me.

I will load a picture of the dad, Splotch at a future date but for now I believe he would be classified as a cobalt or violet pied split to ino and opaline Does Splotch have any other white on him besides that large patch on the back of his head? HIs photo doesn't look like a recessive pied, and you don't mention any kind of pied for his mum, just his Dad being split to recessive pied. So my guess would be that Splotch is a normal, split to recessive pied. (A tiny white spot on the back of the head, like chick #3, is an indicator of a bird being split to it.) His mum BamBam was a violet opaline and his dad a recessive pied split to ino and dilute(greywing).

 

 

I think Wild is a Single Factor dominant pied but not sure how to describe her colour. Maybe yellow faced green Not green. The colors in the yellow face series get called by the same names as the blue series. So yellow face sky blue, yellow face cobalt, or yellow face mauve. Wild's seafoam color leads me to believe she is yellow face mutant two sky blue.

2014-05-21171130_zps653406fd.jpg

Baby 1 - a single factor dominant pied but white face with blue markings. - female? She does appear to be female, and I would say cobalt.

b5f2f7a5-d039-4661-91bc-ce9a232b5be9_zps2a3e03bd.jpg

2014-05-21171648_zps8437efc6.jpg

Baby 2 and Baby 3 - cobalt and a cobalt pieds - both male I think. One has a small white dot on back of head which what I think might make him a pied. Normal, split to recessive pied, as explained above. Both boys, yes.

cc049bde-86d5-4ad9-bc5d-30ef4ebe311d_zps1c909564.jpg

Baby 4 - Albino - has to be a hen I believe as neither of the parents are ino and also this therefore must come from the dad. Yes, correct.

2014-05-15160852_zps96b6afed.jpg

Baby 5 - Creamino - a bit of a surprise - I suspect this will also have to be a hen for the same reason as baby 4 Yes! but I must admit I expected that a creamino would come from a lutino/albino combination so nice surprise Creamino is the yellow face version of ino. She gets it from her mother. Remember, the ino gene is sex linked, and it is separate from color series, which is autosomal. So when people say lutino, they are talking about an ino in the green series. And when they say albino, they are talking about an ino in the blue series. Therefore, creamino is an ino in the yellow face series.

2014-05-15160808_zps7dd23ad7.jpg

2014-05-21084056_zps40e5958d.jpg

Baby 6 - my guess - an opaline single factor dominant pied cobalt - female. As I now believe that the dad splotch must be split to opaline since opaline is a sex-linked gene(carried by male) and his mum was in fact an opaline violet. Exactly right! Also I suspect that any opaline babies would have to be female as neither of the parents are opaline. Correct. All opalines are females unless their mother is an opaline.

2014-05-21083935_zps3781d69d.jpg

2014-05-21083925_zpsf2d147d0.jpg

Please feel free to comment or offer any corrections on what I have written above as I am still learning mutations/colours.

Also to the moderators, I seem to have heaps of problems typing into the boxes on this forum as letters are left out so I usually resort to typing in a word doc then cutting and pasting. Is there another way around this I'm not sure. I also had huge problems typing on this forum (but not anywhere else on the internet), until I started using Chrome instead of internet Explorer. And even with Chrome, my keyboard is still doing some funky things. You may want to try a different browser and see if that clears up your problem. But there must definitely be some kind of issue with this forum, because I don't get these problems on other websites, with either browser.

Edited by Finnie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Finnie, Thanks heaps for all your analysis. It is really exciting to be learning all this new stuff but I keep finding more that I need to research or ask questions about. My new questions are in red. lol.

 

The colors in the yellow face series get called by the same names as the blue series. So yellow face sky blue, yellow face cobalt, or yellow face mauve. Wild's seafoam color leads me to believe she is yellow face mutant two sky blue. So if Wild actually had sky blue instead of the seafoam would she still be a Y2 sky blue? And so is this her mutation or her variety or both?

2014-05-21171130_zps653406fd.jpg

 

Normal, split to recessive pied. - So the white dot on back of head indicates split to recessive pied like dad Splotch or split to dominant pied as mum Wild is a dominant pied? With the other normal male baby, can this one also be split to pied even though it has no such marking? Are these obviously cobalt to you or is it possible there may also be some violet there that may even come out later when they darken up after first moult?

cc049bde-86d5-4ad9-bc5d-30ef4ebe311d_zps1c909564.jpg

 

 

Baby 5 - Creamino - Creamino is the yellow face version of ino. She gets it from her mother. Remember, the ino gene is sex linked, and it is separate from color series, which is autosomal. So when people say lutino, they are talking about an ino in the green series. And when they say albino, they are talking about an ino in the blue series. Therefore, creamino is an ino in the yellow face series. That's really interesting and helpful but opens a real can of worms!! lol Back to basics - how do you know when a bird is from the yellow-faced series and not the green series?

Also given that there is opaline and pied in the females of the clutch, could the creamino (and albino) be masking opaline or pied or both and possibly could produce opaline or pied offspring?

2014-05-15160808_zps7dd23ad7.jpg

2014-05-21084056_zps40e5958d.jpg

Baby 6 - my guess - an opaline single factor dominant pied cobalt . After taking a second look at this bird, is it possible that she is a sky blue instead of a cobalt? Or is her colour too deep for sky blue?

2014-05-21083935_zps3781d69d.jpg

2014-05-21083925_zpsf2d147d0.jpg

 

And so finally dad Splotch is a cobalt or violet normal? He is also split to opaline, ino and pied. I look forward to your answers - thanks.

2014-05-22104323_zps66dc8ada.jpg

Edited by Kaj
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Kaj,

 

I started to answer this last night, but then I got a phone call and never got back to it. okay, I will now add more in Purple. :D

 

 

Hi Finnie, Thanks heaps for all your analysis. It is really exciting to be learning all this new stuff but I keep finding more that I need to research or ask questions about. My new questions are in red. lol.

 

The colors in the yellow face series get called by the same names as the blue series. So yellow face sky blue, yellow face cobalt, or yellow face mauve. Wild's seafoam color leads me to believe she is yellow face mutant two sky blue. So if Wild actually had sky blue instead of the seafoam would she still be a Y2 sky blue? And so is this her mutation or her variety or both? Seafoam is not an actual budgie color. It is just a term that people use to describe how the color appears. I don't really know how to define the term "variety" here. I think that has something to do with Exhibition classes. Any deviation from the normal light green wild type budgie is a mutation. For Wild, yf2 sky blue is the correct term for her mutation.

2014-05-21171130_zps653406fd.jpg

 

Normal, split to recessive pied. - So the white dot on back of head indicates split to recessive pied like dad Splotch I asked about whether Splotch had any other white markings, because that photo doesn't show his wings or abdomen very well. I can't rule out him being visual to any of the pieds. Normally, the "split to recessive pied indicator patch" on the back of the head is just a very small dot. Splotch's seems too large for that. It appears to be the size that a visual pied bird would have.

 

[or split to dominant pied as mum Wild is a dominant pied] A dominant mutation cannot be split for. It is either visual, or it is not there.

 

With the other normal male baby, can this one also be split to pied even though it has no such marking? Yes

 

Are these obviously cobalt to you or is it possible there may also be some violet there that may even come out later when they darken up after first moult? You would usually be able to tell the violet factor from the very beginning. Now, if the chick were a violet factored sky, it could look like a cobalt. So there is some room for error.

cc049bde-86d5-4ad9-bc5d-30ef4ebe311d_zps1c909564.jpg

 

 

Baby 5 - Creamino - Creamino is the yellow face version of ino. She gets it from her mother. Remember, the ino gene is sex linked, and it is separate from color series, which is autosomal. So when people say lutino, they are talking about an ino in the green series. And when they say albino, they are talking about an ino in the blue series. Therefore, creamino is an ino in the yellow face series. That's really interesting and helpful but opens a real can of worms!! lol Back to basics - how do you know when a bird is from the yellow-faced series and not the green series? You can usually just tell. The yellow feathers come in a true yellow on a green series chick, and they come in softer on the yellow faces. On a green series chick, the green parts (if there are any) usually come in quite green, although they can have the odd blue patch before the first molt. On a yellow face series, the "greenish aqua" parts usually come in more blue looking, and turn to the seafoam color with the first molt.

 

The main difficulty can be when the bird has a dark factor. When a yellow face series bird gets its first molt, the yellow spreads into the blue more, and the dark factor can make the color look more like a true green than like a seafoam. With mine, I have found that the yellow spreads quite unevenly, so that the yf2 cobalts don't actually turn green. They retain some blue, and some in-between, dark aqua shades in patches, along with the patches of actual green. But I have seen photos of yf2 cobalts that were hard to distinguish from greens.

 

I think yf2 mauves would look muddy, so they probably wouldn't get mistaken for greens. I think I've had a yf2 mauve chick, but I sold it before it molted, so I have never personally seen what the yf2 looks like on a mauve.

 

 

Also given that there is opaline and pied in the females of the clutch, could the creamino (and albino) be masking opaline or pied or both and possibly could produce opaline or pied offspring? Yes

2014-05-15160808_zps7dd23ad7.jpg

2014-05-21084056_zps40e5958d.jpg

Baby 6 - my guess - an opaline single factor dominant pied cobalt . After taking a second look at this bird, is it possible that she is a sky blue instead of a cobalt? Or is her colour too deep for sky blue? Too deep for sky blue.

2014-05-21083935_zps3781d69d.jpg

2014-05-21083925_zpsf2d147d0.jpg

 

And so finally dad Splotch is a cobalt or violet normal? He is also split to opaline, ino and pied Yes, he is split to opaline and ino. But as I said above, we can't rule out him being a visual of some sort of pied. We need photos that show his full front and also his full wings.

 

If Splotch turns out to be either clearflight pied or dominant pied, then his white patch would not be an indicator of recessive pied. In that case, the chick who is split to recessive pied might have gotten it from either parent. (IF that chick is not in fact a poorly marked specimen of dominant or clearflight pied.)

 

I think to clear that up, we would need to see complete photos of both Splotch and the chick with the head dot.

 

 

I look forward to your answers - thanks. You're welcome. Glad to help if I can. :) This is the time of year when I get pretty busy working outside, so I don't get onto the forum much. It helped that you sent me a PM, because then I saw it when I checked my email.

2014-05-22104323_zps66dc8ada.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...