Jump to content
Sherlock

Breeding Ages And Father ?

Recommended Posts

sorry i f this Post is a bit long. I’ve found and read KAZ’s Mar 2009 Post, Correct Breeding Age by Dave Hansen, good article as I have a great little Budgie book but it does not confirm optimum breeding ages. My daughter has the last male budgie of her grandfathers a Opaline Grey which we’ve worked out from family photo’s was born in Nov/Dec 2004 so is now 8 & ½ yrs old and seems is now past it in breeding terms. In 2010 I got my daughter a Spangle Opaline Grey through a bird friend & from a registered breeder and it has a blue ring with 10 after the breeders ID. So, 2010 which makes her 3 yrs old. They are in a 80cm x 54cm x 90 cm cage on stand/wheels so they can be wheeled out into sunshine on weekends etc. The hope was to have offspring from my dad’s last male Grey budgie. In 2011 she had two clear clutches of eggs, thought she may have been too young, but now thinking the male grey at 6 & ½ in 2011 may have been too old ?

In 2012 I got my daughter a Lutino hen & Sky Blue normal male from the bird friend who sourced the 2010 grey hen, he Colony breeds, these went in the same cage with the two Greys with no conflicts. In Sept 2012 the Grey hen hatched 3 albino chicks from 4 eggs, with two surviving (Hedwig & Milkshake), thinking the Grey male was the father as they had bonded very well. The Lutino hen had two clear clutches in 2012.

In April this year the Grey hen hatched 2 chicks from 4 eggs, a albino hen (Snow) and a cobalt or violet normal hen ? (Blue). The Lutino hen attacked Snow at 3 weeks of age removing all heads feathers & resulting in a mass of blood. We removed the Lutino/Sky Blue pair into their own cage. Snow was treated for infection and has recovered well.

The Lutino hen/Sky Blue boy have gone on to have their first chicks in mid June, two Lutino hens and two Green hens from 7 eggs (2 chicks died at 2-3 days old).

All this has got us questioning, is the Grey male the father of the first two albino hens (Hedwig & Milkshake) from Sept 2012 and the albino and cobalt or violet hen (Snow & Blue) from April this year ?, or is it the Sky Blue normal male ?. My daughters friend thinks she saw the Sky Blue male have his way with the Grey hen & they did seem ‘friendly’ with the Grey male chasing the Sky Blue away at times, nothing nasty. We don’t know the parentage of the two Grey’s or the Lutino/Sky Blue normal.

The goal of offspring from the Grey male may be in some doubt now. What do breeders think ?

And we have two other questions, we’d like to breed with Hedwig (albino) now she is 11 months old, what type/colour should we consider as a male ? We also are now thinking of a new male for the 2010 Spangle Opaline Grey hen, again type/colour for a male. Thank you for any/all advice. Pictures should follow. White01-Copy_zps65a915da.jpg Hedwig 2013619Milkshake01-Copy_zps54849e74.jpg?t=1375507752 Milkshake 2013518cobaltnormalBlue_zps0cd80b61.jpg?t=1375507655 Blue, sister to Snow 201383Snow_zpsb5683a75.jpg?t=1375507827 Snow P1030215-Copy_zps4fc10786.jpg Lutino hen & Sky Blue normal who where in with Spangle Opaline Grey hen & Opaline Grey male when Hedwig, Milkshake, Snow & Blue were hatched

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I know that a female is getting on at abou 7 years maybe younger. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't think it matter too much for a male. You will definitely need to check with someone with more experience. Before doing anything. There was not picture of the grey male.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if that Grey is past 7 years old he probably shooting blanks.

You need to not Colony breed and test breed the same pair again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A local breeder that i know is using a cock that is 10 yrs and still filling eggs with exceptional regularity.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a bit confused with all this as I'm no expert on genetrics BUT one thing I think I picked up is: Albino is sex linked and no hen can be split sex-linked.

As you say a grey hen had Albino chicks. I'd say that bit was passed by the father.

Will have to re-read and digest the rest later l.o.l.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks Budgie_Mad, grey male is my profile photo, he is now 8 1/2 and dotes over the Spangle Opaline grey hen, photo below. L_J thanks also, I was thinking that he may be shooting blanks also. The only 3 eggs the hen laid with only the grey male were candled on the weekend and sadly were all clear. Paulie, thanks also .. so older male scan reproduce okay ?. Robyn thanks also, I have to get my head around sex linked Albino offspring that are only female coming from the male. The SO grey hen has produced 3 female albino hens and then one albino hen and a cobalt or violet normal hen, when the Sky Blue normal was also in the same cage. Could the grey male be the father of the cobalt or violet hen ? Male01-Copy_zpsea9cd9bb.jpg Grey male

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Sherlock,

if your grey hen has produced ino hen chicks and the cock bird is showing colour the ino gene can have only come from a split cock bird as hen cannot be be split/ino. So this means that which ever cock bird is the father of the ino hens must be normal split ino. The Y chromosome of the female is always constant in sex related mutations. The sex-linked varieties are opaline, cinnamon, lutino, and albino.

 

According to Mendel's Laws of genetic inheritance.

For these purpose (i) represents the ino gene carried on the X(Male) chromosome. Xi Y = ino hen, X Xi = cock Normal /ino.

The ino in the cock bird will be masked by its normal gene colouring and for all intents will not look ino. (the so called hidden traits of many birds)

 

Mendel demonstrated that the inheritance of certain traits in pea plants follows particular patterns.This work is now referred to as the laws of Mendelian inheritance and is the basis of all genetic studies.

 

If your chicks are ino they will be totally devoid of all colour pigments including melanin and thus display only the birds base colour, (white or yellow), cere will change as per normal in a hen. A cock will display a flesh colour cere for its entire life. For male and female the legs, feet should be pink as with they eyes.

.Hope this helps

Paulie

 

P.s. if you would like some "light" reading on the subject as it relates directly to budgies PM me and ill send to you.

Edited by paulie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sherlock, hi, I wanted to mention that to me Blue looks like a male... Could be wrong just want to mention :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice budgies you have there. I totally agree with what L__J had to say, it is very likely that he could be shooting blanks. But that is not for certain, they could just be breeding incorrectly e.g. the females vent was covered by the feathers, or the male was just having some casual mating (for fun).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Birdlove, thanks, the photo I posted does not show Blue's cere that well, but here is Blue at 15 days old and I was informed hen, I'm syill wondering what colour blue, he/she is, thanks 201342515days01Mod-Copy_zpsf6787887.jpg

 

thanks for your reply paulie, I have PM'd you re your offer of 'light reading' thanks, need to get my head around all this. I've gone back to some earlier posts I have made and in January Hilly told me mum is a spangle opaline grey and dad a opaline grey and dad must carry the ino gene and any albino's we get will be hens, which four albino chicks mum has had have been hens. In April KAZ told me dad must be a split albino. Could the Sky Blue normal carry the ino gene ? So wish my dad was still around he was a champion show breeder back in the 60's in Sydney from the Caringbah Bird Club. Would love to chat with him about all this over a quiet ale. Today I checked my daughters Lutino hen who's on 7 eggs and time is nigh for first hatchling to appear, I was holding each egg up to the sun as my dad taught me as a kid & egg number 4 was chirping back to me !! that sound blew me away. Hopefully the first hatchling tomorrow. I've taken the nest box out from the grey hen/cock, will give her a few weeks rest & put it back in. Is feather trimming at the vent for mum and dad advisable ? I do this sometimes with my canary's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks Budgie_Mad, grey male is my profile photo, he is now 8 1/2 and dotes over the Spangle Opaline grey hen, photo below. L_J thanks also, I was thinking that he may be shooting blanks also. The only 3 eggs the hen laid with only the grey male were candled on the weekend and sadly were all clear. Paulie, thanks also .. so older male scan reproduce okay ?. Robyn thanks also, I have to get my head around sex linked Albino offspring that are only female coming from the male. The SO grey hen has produced 3 female albino hens and then one albino hen and a cobalt or violet normal hen, when the Sky Blue normal was also in the same cage. Could the grey male be the father of the cobalt or violet hen ? Male01-Copy_zpsea9cd9bb.jpg Grey male

Hi if your Grey was with her on his own and eggs were clear, she also had Albino's with both Cock birds in with her I'd say it is your blue normal that is split Ino. You could test breed him with a normal hen that you know is not split and see what you get then? Just a thought. I'm no genetic expert by ANY means just picking up a clue here and there l.o.l.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Robyn, I found the 2009 link below to the Forum that is an interesting read. I have also found other reading on ino's. Without knowing the parentage of my daughters two pairs we might mate her sky blue up with a normal. Intere sting stuff this.

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=26590

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just had a brief read of above link. I kept copy for further reading/digestion?

 

I'm waiting to see results of my Albino hen to, violet opaline pied ? Cock bird. She's busy cleaning out box and sitting so I'm expecting eggs any day, she's 1st time Mum at 16 mths old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just had a brief read of above link. I kept copy for further reading/digestion?

 

I'm waiting to see results of my Albino hen to, violet opaline pied ? Cock bird. She's busy cleaning out box and sitting so I'm expecting eggs any day, she's 1st time Mum at 16 mths old.

Do post some pics off offspring robyn for all to see ... I now have a few articles to read about genetics, just need some rainy weather to keep me indoors !

 

thanks paulie, great links, I have my reading sorted for a while, many thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Sherlock my Albino laid her first egg 11-8-2013.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blue is a boy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Sherlock, since you have had albino's from the grey hen and lutino's from the lutino hen, it would appear they both have the same father, I would suggest that to be the one that has proven to be split for the ino gene from its pairing to the lutino, "the sky blue male". If the sky blue male was not split for ino, when paired to the lutino you would only have got split / lutino birds that would not have shown the lutino color or pink eyes. A normal cock to a lutino hen will always only allow for split / lutino cock birds in the nest. Ino hen birds cannot pass on the ino color when paired to a normal color bird, unless the normal color bird is split for the ino gene, which you have proved the sky blue bird split / ino by the lutino progeny from the sky blue, lutino pairing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...