May Albino Have Cinnamon Spots?

[TaniaOK 0]

Hello everybody

 

I’ve been asked if an Albino may have faint cinnamon spots?

 

One breeder has such a hen:

 

The parents of this hen are Albino (cock) and Lacewing (hen).

As you can see, this hen has faint cinnamon spots.

 

 

The breeder paired this hen with such a cock:

 

He is Violet Cinnamon split to ino. His parents are Olive Cinnamon Opaline cock and Lacewing hen.

 

 

The pair gave such chicks:

 

Grey Cinnamon Opaline hen

Violet Normal cock

Sky-blue Normal cock

Grey Nornal cock

Ino cock (hen?)

 

Here it is (now there is the first moulting):

 

 

This Ino chick also has faint cinnamon spots. The question is, if Albinos may have such spots? If this chick may be a Lacewing (if it’s female, of course)?

[Bird Junky 0]

Hi If your friend is correct in his colour descriptions & he has one then it must be poss. It wasn't that

long ago when yellow face was considered impossible on a blue series bird......B.J.

[Finnie 0]

So sifting through the information you have given, you are saying that this hen, considered to be a lacewing:

 

 

And this cock:

 

 

Produced this chick:

 

 

This Ino chick also has faint cinnamon spots. The question is, if Albinos may have such spots? If this chick may be a Lacewing (if it’s female, of course)? Seeing as the mother is a lacewing, and the father is split to lacewing, then yes, this can be a lacewing chick, and it can be either gender. (It looks male to me.)

 

The problem I am noticing, is with the following:

 

He is Violet Cinnamon split to ino. His parents are Olive Cinnamon Opaline cock and Lacewing hen.

 

 

The pair gave such chicks:

 

Grey Cinnamon Opaline hen

Violet Normal cock

Sky-blue Normal cock

Grey Nornal cock

Ino cock (hen?)

 

A cinnamon cock paired with a lacewing hen would give 100% cinnamon offspring.

 

 

[TaniaOK 0]

So sifting through the information you have given, you are saying that this hen, considered to be a lacewing:

 

Finnie, no As I said, her father is Albino and her mother is Lacewing. So, she can not be a Lacewing. She can be only Albino. But she has these faint cinnamon spots. I'd like to know, if that happens often enough for Albinos generally?

 

 

A cinnamon cock paired with a lacewing hen would give 100% cinnamon offspring.

He's not just a Cinnamon cock. He's a Cinnamon split to Ino. That's why he can have daughters - Lacewings, cannot he? His mate is an Albino, not a Lacewing. That's why he can not have with her sons-Lacewings. But he can have with her Inos - both sons and daugthers. If this chick is a female, she can be Ino, but she can be a Lacewing too, depending which chromosome the father passed to her. But if this is a son, he may be only an Albino.

 

And I'm still very curious, if such cinnamon spots are often enough seen at Albinos?

[Finnie 0]

So sifting through the information you have given, you are saying that this hen, considered to be a lacewing:

 

Finnie, no As I said, her father is Albino and her mother is Lacewing. So, she can not be a Lacewing. She can be only Albino. But she has these faint cinnamon spots. I'd like to know, if that happens often enough for Albinos generally? She can be a lacewing if her father is split to cinnamon. (Being an albino, if he were split to cinnamon, that would mean the same as split to lacewing.) Based of this breeder's stock that you have mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised if the albino father was split to cinnamon. Maybe when some of the other more experienced people come on, they will know if it's possible for an albino to have brown spots, other than when it's a lacewing.

 

 

A cinnamon cock paired with a lacewing hen would give 100% cinnamon offspring.

He's not just a Cinnamon cock. He's a Cinnamon split to Ino. That's why he can have daughters - Lacewings, cannot he? His mate is an Albino, not a Lacewing. That's why he can not have with her sons-Lacewings. But he can have with her Inos - both sons and daugthers. If you are right about the mother being albino and not lacewing, then this is true. If this chick is a female, she can be Ino, but she can be a Lacewing too, depending which chromosome the father passed to her. The cinnamon father cannot pass to his daughter a non-cinnamon gene. So all his daughters are either cinnamon or lacewing, not regular albino. But if this is a son, he may be only an Albino. Right, an albino split to cinnamon.

 

And I'm still very curious, if such cinnamon spots are often enough seen at Albinos? Not to my knowledge, but maybe Neville or someone with more ino experience than me will come along soon.

[TaniaOK 0]

She can be a lacewing if her father is split to cinnamon.

No, it's very unlikely There is pedigree of his, there are not Cinnamons in it up to 3 generation.

 

The cinnamon father cannot pass to his daughter a non-cinnamon gene. So all his daughters are either cinnamon or lacewing, not regular albino.

Oh, yes, I was mistaken But still there may be an Albino daughter, because of crossingover (well, only 3% of possibility )

 

But if this is a son, he may be only an Albino. Right, an albino split to cinnamon.

Yes!

 

but maybe Neville or someone with more ino experience than me will come along soon.

Thank you very much for you help

[Finnie 0]

The cinnamon father cannot pass to his daughter a non-cinnamon gene. So all his daughters are either cinnamon or lacewing, not regular albino.

Oh, yes, I was mistaken But still there may be an Albino daughter, because of crossingover (well, only 3% of possibility )

 

Well, if the ino gene crosses over to the other chromosome, that one has cinnamon on it too, lol!

 

 

 

Thank you very much for you help

 

You're welcome.

 

I still hope someone can come along who can explain why the albino hen has brown spots, which is your original question.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Finnie

[TaniaOK 0]

Well, if the ino gene crosses over to the other chromosome, that one has cinnamon on it too, lol!

 

)) Well, I don't know what I was thinking about when I wrote that ))

[Neville 0]

I don't think that I can help with this question

 

I would have thought that an ino hen with faint cinnamon spots was a very pale lacewing or a lacewing dilute but as this hen has produced normal male chicks when mated to a cinnamon she can't be a lacewing. The ino chick looks male so it can't be lacewing either if the mother is not lacewing.

 

I'm wondering if ino combined with fallow could produce an ino with faint brown spots???

 

Many inos do have very faint markings but whatever has caused the markings on this hen it can't be cinnamon

[Squeak_Crumble 0]

Any pictures of the back? The hen may be a visual fallow?

[TaniaOK 0]

I'm wondering if ino combined with fallow could produce an ino with faint brown spots???

Neville, thank you very much for the anwer!

In her pedigree there are not Fallows..

 

Many inos do have very faint markings but whatever has caused the markings on this hen it can't be cinnamon

Tell me, please, have you ever seen such Inos like her? With faint cinnamon spots? Or the colour of Inos' spots is usually different?

 

Any pictures of the back? The hen may be a visual fallow?

No, she's definitely not a visual Fallow.

[Neville 0]

I'm wondering if ino combined with fallow could produce an ino with faint brown spots???

Neville, thank you very much for the anwer!

In her pedigree there are not Fallows..

A recessive mutation like fallow could be passed down in the genes for countless generations and only appear visually when a bird is mated to another bird with the same gene, so having a few generations of pedigree doesn't rule out the possibility

[TaniaOK 0]

Neville, yes, there is such possibility. I may advise this breeder to pair this hen with a Fallow to check, but she seems don't have Fallows.. Well, I guess, this mystery will remain the mystery.

Once again, thank you very much

[Squeak_Crumble 0]

Personally, I have had ino's with cinnamon in the wings (normally the flights), but she could just be a very very poorly marked fallow.

[TaniaOK 0]

Personally, I have had ino's with cinnamon in the wings (normally the flights), but she could just be a very very poorly marked fallow.

Squeak_Crumble, and what parentage do these Ino's with cinnamon in wings have?

 

As for this hen, she gave an Albino male chick (with a Violet Cinnamon split to Ino cock), that's why she's an Albino. If she's also a Fallow, I'm afraid, we'll never know.

[Squeak_Crumble 0]

Personally, I have had ino's with cinnamon in the wings (normally the flights), but she could just be a very very poorly marked fallow.

Squeak_Crumble, and what parentage do these Ino's with cinnamon in wings have?

 

As for this hen, she gave an Albino male chick (with a Violet Cinnamon split to Ino cock), that's why she's an Albino. If she's also a Fallow, I'm afraid, we'll never know.

 

Any parentage. It doesn't really matter, an albino with poor markings is the same as an albino with good markings. Albinos can be produced from visuals or male splits. I have found that albino's with lacewing in their parentage, from long ago or 1 generation, sometimes have markings in them. If I saw it in my aviary I probably wouldn't question it, it may be that she is just a poorly marked albino.

[TaniaOK 0]

Squeak_Crumble, thank you for the answer

 

Speaking about the hen in question, her mother is a Lacewing, so, the hen does not have a cinnamon gene from her. Her father is an Albino (and his parents are an Albino and a Lutino), so, the hen can not have a cinnamon gene from him too.

[JustBeaky 0]

All I have to say about this topic is that the birds you pictured are beautiful birds. Very stunning. Otherwise the other information was giving me a headache trying to read...LMAO. As you can tell I am not an expert.

[TaniaOK 0]

All I have to say about this topic is that the birds you pictured are beautiful birds. Very stunning.

JustBeaky, thank you

[Finnie 0]

Squeak_Crumble, thank you for the answer

 

Speaking about the hen in question, her mother is a Lacewing, so, the hen does not have a cinnamon gene from her. Her father is an Albino (and his parents are an Albino and a Lutino), so, the hen can not have a cinnamon gene from him too.

 

I'm not meaning to nit-pick, but rather to help unravel the mystery. You mentioned earlier that there was no cinnamon, back to 3 generations. So you have two listed here, the Albino father and lacewing mother, plus the parents of the albino father, who were also inos. So what about the next generation back, the parents of these last mentioned inos? All you need is one male split to cinnamon among any of these, and that split can remain hidden for several generations. Normally you would expect it to show up in a hen chick here or there, but I have heard of breeders being surprised by something they didn't know had been there all along.

[TaniaOK 0]

I'm not meaning to nit-pick, but rather to help unravel the mystery.

Finnie, thank you!

 

So what about the next generation back, the parents of these last mentioned inos?

Once again, from the beginning

 

The father – Albino

His father – Albino, his mother – Lutino

 

His grandfather (the father of Albino) – Grey split to Albino

The parents of the grandfather: Lutino cock (his parents are both Lutino) and Greygreen Opaline hen (her parents are Grey cock and Lightgreen hen)

 

His grandmother (the mother of Albino) – Albino

The parents of the grandmother: Lutino cock (his parents are Lutino cock and Albino hen) and Lutino hen (her parents are Lutino cock and Greygreen Opaline hen)

 

His grandfather (the father of Lutino) – Light-green Normal

His grandfather (the mother of Lutino) – Light-green Cinnamon

 

No information more available.

 

that split can remain hidden for several generations.

Yes, and even the pedigree will not help

 

Normally you would expect it to show up in a hen chick here or there, but I have heard of breeders being surprised by something they didn't know had been there all along.

I don't agree. The cinnamon gene will show itself in a hen fully. A hen cannot be split to Cinnamon. She's either a Cinnamon, or not.

[Finnie 0]

Normally you would expect it to show up in a hen chick here or there, but I have heard of breeders being surprised by something they didn't know had been there all along.

I don't agree. The cinnamon gene will show itself in a hen fully. A hen cannot be split to Cinnamon. She's either a Cinnamon, or not.

 

Oops, sorry to be unclear. I didn't mean the hens would be split (which of course, I agree is impossible). I meant that if any of the cocks had been split, you would think they would at least throw one cinnamon hen offspring and reveal that they were split. But some breeders have had male budgies that never threw a cinnamon hen chick, even though they were split to cinnamon. And then the cinnamon passed down through the male line in hidden form until several generations later it surfaced.

[TaniaOK 0]

Finnie, I'm sorry, I've misunderstood your words. Of course, you're right