R&t's Breeding Journal

[renee 0]

Well it has taken me a while to figure what is going on with my birds this year but I believe I have the answer : Red Mites.

 

I have just finished a water change with S76 and everyone is getting this for 2 days and then again for the next 3 weeks to break the cycle and eliminate them for good.

 

I doubt I'll be able to salvage anything from this year's season but my aim now is to make sure I eradicate the suckers over the next month.

 

All the signs were staring me in the face but it never occurred to me 'cause I do give my birds a monthly treatment with the S76 for Lice, Mites and Worms ... until one crawled out from under a soft food dish last night onto the kitchen bench.

 

.... and then there was no denying it.

 

Funny 'cause I always imagined that they were microscopic but this one looked like tiny translucent spider,

Edited September 23, 2011 by renee

[**KAZ** 0]

Red mites, eh........well that will bump off baby chicks for sure. You are up for a massively detailed cage clean now. They look like specks of pepper and hide in every conceivable crevice........the joins of cage fronts and bars, the slots in perches, in every nestbox crevice, on the plastic on the drinkers and drinker clips. They hide in the ear canals of the bird too.

A.I.L. works well for this cleanup. For the birds and all cleaning.

Make sure you get them all, spray and soak everything.

[renee 0]

Red mites, eh........well that will bump off baby chicks for sure. You are up for a massively detailed cage clean now. They look like specks of pepper and hide in every conceivable crevice......

 

Well that's what I thought Kaz but this one was more like a tiny spider - not a speck of pepper.

 

I haven't lost any baby chicks really but I do think it explains the low fertility and the very high incidence of addled eggs - I did think the hens were getting off their eggs but never saw any evidence of it myself during the day.

 

Also I'm thinking it would explain why some of the chicks are underweight.

 

In addition 5 or so days ago I woke up in the middle of the night and heard one of the cock birds go troppo in the Breeding Cabinet. I immediately thought Mouse! But on the week end I searched high and low and didn't find any droppings, so I was at a bit of a loss to explain his behaviour. Also I didn't know exactly which one as if I had gone in I would have woken them all up in a shock.

 

And if I think back the adult birds did have a tendency to panic after dark from time to time. I always assumed it was 'cause they were startled by something else like a cat.

 

Any ways I am going to do the month treatment of S76 2 days out of every 7 and 2 days of apple cider vinegar / Megamix and then take it from there.

Edited September 23, 2011 by renee

[**KAZ** 0]

You misunderstand me Renee.........the specks of pepper I describe are all their eggs.

 

You still need to strip out all cabinet fittings, perches and clean and spray all boxes and everything with A.I.L.

 

 

 

Any ways I am going to do the month treatment of S76 2 days out of every 7 and 2 days of apple cider vinegar / Megamix and then take it from there.

 

 

No point treating the bird from within if you dont treat the environment

[renee 0]

You misunderstand me Renee.........the specks of pepper I describe are all their eggs.

 

Ahhh Okay that makes sense.

 

You still need to strip out all cabinet fittings, perches and clean and spray all boxes and everything with A.I.L.

 

Any ways I am going to do the month treatment of S76 2 days out of every 7 and 2 days of apple cider vinegar / Megamix and then take it from there.

 

No point treating the bird from within if you dont treat the environment

 

Well this is where we have differing opinions. I have double checked with Marshall's Medicine Book and it clearly states that the 4 week treatment is the most effective way of eradicating Red Mites.

 

How so? Because the S76 is absorbed into the budgies blood and when the little suckers get a taste they die but you need to do it for 4 weeks to be sure that their cycle is broken and all have perished.

 

All budgies, inside and out will be receiving this treatment. And as soon as I put some birds into the outside aviary in which I suspect it is too, I will do the treatment again.

 

That is NOT to say that I won't be stripping the place down and giving it a good going over. Of course I will. But not just right now.

[**KAZ** 0]

 

Well this is where we have differing opinions. I have double checked with Marshall's Medicine Book and it clearly states that the 4 week treatment is the most effective way of eradicating Red Mites.

 

 

Thats all very well, Renee..........BUT that only works for red mites ON the budgie. MOST red mites get OFF the budgie during the day to go off into crevices and lay zillions of eggs. Not every red mite you have will be on the budgies at one time either.

 

You will find unless you are scrupulous to the nth degree in your stripping and cleaning regime of everything budgie, including throwing out some perching, you will still have them a month or two down the track.

[renee 0]

Thats all very well, Renee..........BUT that only works for red mites ON the budgie. MOST red mites get OFF the budgie during the day to go off into crevices and lay zillions of eggs. Not every red mite you have will be on the budgies at one time either.

 

You will find unless you are scrupulous to the nth degree in your stripping and cleaning regime of everything budgie, including throwing out some perching, you will still have them a month or two down the track.

 

Well I understand that even if they hide during the day they still return at night to have another feed and that is when they would be poisoned.

 

What am I missing?

[**KAZ** 0]

Thats all very well, Renee..........BUT that only works for red mites ON the budgie. MOST red mites get OFF the budgie during the day to go off into crevices and lay zillions of eggs. Not every red mite you have will be on the budgies at one time either.

 

You will find unless you are scrupulous to the nth degree in your stripping and cleaning regime of everything budgie, including throwing out some perching, you will still have them a month or two down the track.

 

Well I understand that even if they hide during the day they still return at night to have another feed and that is when they would be poisoned.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

What you are missing Renee...........is the fact of how virulent and hard to be rid of they are and that the clean up is a very very important factor and must be the best cleanup you have ever done with everything considered. Not everything is just a medication solution. Especially with red mites.

 

AND the eggs thats are so hard to see WILL HATCH !!! in droves unless you get them sprayed and killed before that happens

Edited September 23, 2011 by **KAZ**

[GenericBlue 0]

im in agreement with kaz ren

i know the raid indoor fly spray kits work a treat at keeping bugs at bay in the breeding room

but you still must kill the cycle first even before you add that

[**KAZ** 0]

You know when you use the spot on flea treatment for dogs and cats ? They also say to treat the environment as well as the spot on on the animals.

[RIPbudgies 0]

From the quick description given it sounds like fodder mite, not red mite. Red mite are small and reddish due to the blood that is ingested. They hide in the daylight and are usually spotted at night. Fodder mite on the other hand are a translucent hue and larger than red mite and can easily be seen in daylight generally hiding under seed dishes etc.

 

Before treating make sure of what you have first.

[renee 0]

You know when you use the spot on flea treatment for dogs and cats ? They also say to treat the environment as well as the spot on on the animals.

 

Thank you for your patience my dear and I am sorry your frustration with me prompted a good ole yelling

 

Yes of course you are right, the environment must be treated as well. However, as for droves of mites hatching out at 7 day intervals I'm afraid the horse has truly bolted on this one. It has to have since this the end of week 5 and it has already significantly affected my breeding season.

 

I have already braced myself for possible losses and in the meantime have commenced the clean up. I will never be able to get rid of all red mites, there are just too many nooks and crannies for them to hide in and as an adult mite can go for 8 months between feeds I do think medicated control/management/treatment is the only long term solution.

 

From the quick description given it sounds like fodder mite, not red mite. Red mite are small and reddish due to the blood that is ingested. They hide in the daylight and are usually spotted at night. Fodder mite on the other hand are a translucent hue and larger than red mite and can easily be seen in daylight generally hiding under seed dishes etc.

 

Before treating make sure of what you have first.

 

Thank you RIP for your encouraging input. Yes I so hope you are right.

 

S76 in the water for 2 days every week for a month will not adversely affect the budgies - it's basically Ivermectin and Slippery Elm. I have done a bit of research and I am also going to embrace the natural alternatives: eucalyptus branches and garlic!

 

I thought maybe a red mite that hadn't fed yet would be translucent .... but you make a valid point and I'll have to look into it all more.

[**KAZ** 0]

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=21341&view=findpost&p=250868&hl=%2Bfodder+%2Bmites&fromsearch=1

[renee 0]

http://forums.budgie...es&fromsearch=1

 

Hey whadyaknow 3 years ago I actually knew what a fodder mite looked like!

[GenericBlue 0]

ren the raid mortin spray with natural pirethium(spelt wrong and im sure its sinthetic even if they say its not ) work to kill them from anywhere

just putting it out their

[renee 0]

Well I'm all done panicking I've had a good think about RIP's post, looked up images of mites online and come to the conclusion that what I saw was not a red mite - it was just too big to be one and not the right colour. Mind you it doesn't really look like a fodder mite either, in fact I have yet to find a photo of a corresponding match ...

 

 

However, the Bird Room did get a pretty good clean up yesterday. I cleared all the Holding Cages of budgies, updated my notes and administered 1-2mls of S76 to the crop before releasing them to the outside aviary. I then thoroughly cleaned the Holding Cages and hoovered the nest boxes before liberally spraying with A.I.L. In fact it was during this I had a severe asthma attack but decided I didn't have time to take a rest so pushed on .... I'm telling you I was a wreck by the time I finished!

 

 

It also gave me a good opportunity to re-read the label on the A.I.L. and yes, it does say that is is effective for 6 months. So that got me thinking and questioning some more. I really put a LOT of time and effort into this year's Breeding Season: the Garage got a Spring Clean, I washed and dried everything and the nest boxes, perches and cabinets were thoroughly doused in A.I.L. - and that was only a couple of months ago.

 

ren the raid mortin spray with natural pirethium(spelt wrong and im sure its sinthetic even if they say its not ) work to kill them from anywhere

just putting it out their

 

Thanks GB, that's a good tip!

[renee 0]

The clean up continues .... Just found another 3 of those translucent "spider" mites under a seed dish in the aviary. It looks more like they are fodder mites after all.

[renee 0]

Amongst other things, today I weighed most of the chicks concentrating on the nests with chicks over the age of 7 days. I really wanted to get a read on their development and compare with the statistics observed by Betty Rae in the Weights & Measures post pinned in Breeding Tips.

 

 

In particular I was concerned about the chicks that had been fostered about versus those that had stayed in one nest. The results were interesting, details below:

 

6 DAYS - 9GRAMS

Own chick in Grey Spangle nest: 13grams

 

9 DAYS - 20 GRAMS

Own chick in Medusa's nest: 23grams

Foster in Medusa's nest: 20grams

 

10 DAYS - 22 GRAMS

Foster in Medusa's nest: 26grams

Own chick in Grey Spangle nest: 26grams

Own chick in LGreen Spangle nest: 32grams

 

12 DAYS -27 GRAMS

Foster in Violet split Opaline: 32grams

Foster in Violet split Opaline: 28grams

Own chick in Grey DP: 28grams

 

14 DAYS 35 GRAMS

Own chick in LGreen Spangle nest: 39grams

Foster in Violet split Opaline: 36grams

Foster in Cobalt & Sky: 28grams

Foster in Cobalt & Sky: 31grams

 

18 DAYS - 53 GRAMS

Hand reared chickie (19 Days): 54grams

 

 

So here I was stressing about the chicks in the Violet split Opaline nest when really it is the chicks in the Cobalt and Sky nest that are underweight.

 

 

I have set the automatic timer to turn the lights on earlier at 7am. I always hoped that chickies would be fed overnight 'cause the hens would be able to see their way due to the night light I have running. But I read elsewhere that that is not the case. So this way hopefully as soon as the lights go on then the hens will start morning feeds.

[Taylor 0]

Good luck

[renee 0]

Good luck

 

Thank You Taylor! Very appreciated

 

 

I should add that the above weights are the real chick's weight, ie. total weight minus one gram (leg ring)

[renee 0]

Well I'm completely knackered after a very full on few days.

 

 

 

All birds received the S76, the clean up has been completed, all Breeder Cabinets now have eucalyptus branches and I'm adding garlic to the Soft Food. Actually on that subject I have decided not to give them any more beetroot 'cause I realised they don't really like it - on Friday I was out of it and just served up the carrots and hulled oats and all birds with no exception emptied the dishes but yesterday I added it as usual and they ate it as normal but didn't devour it.

 

 

So, looking back on the last few eventful days - when I saw that mite it really spooked me and I went into a panic and immediately assumed the worst case scenario (I do tend to do that) But after doing the research I have decided that prevention is better than cure so I will carry on with the eucalyptus branches and garlic, the natural remedies, and I will do some more research about S76 4 week treatment during breeding. However, at least for my own peace of mind I am leaning towards completing it just as I will do the summer course of Doxy with all birds along with the course of meds for Canker.

 

 

But moving on

 

It's time for End of Week 6 Chick Report -

 

In alphabetical order:

 

Albino

Sat Grey split Albino - Amazing long feather. Fostered to Sky hen nest. Probably dead.

 

 

Blues - Cobalt / Sky

Wed Good feather. Fostered to Lute hen nest. Probably dead.

Thurs Good feather. Fostered to Lute hen nest. Probably dead.

Fri Good feather. Fostered to Lute hen nest. Probably dead.

Sat Good feather.

Tue Assisted hatching - too early : Died

Sat Good feather.

 

 

Dommie Pied/Normal Green split Blue

Thur Fostered to Lute nest. Probably dead.

Green/Blue

thur

Dommie Pied Cobalt & Sky

Fri rejected by hen : died

 

Dommie Pied Greys split Blue

Sat Very pink.

Sun Very pink.

Mon Very pink

Thurs Very pink.Fostered to Medusa's nest

 

 

Lutes

Mon Dommie Pied Green split Lute

Tue Assisted hatching (not quite sure where this one is)

Fri DF Lute rejected by hen : died

Tue DF Lute

Wed DF Lute

 

Recessive Pieds

Sat Green split RP. Fostered to Cobalt & Sky's nest

Mon Green split RP. Fostered to Violet split Opaline's nest

Thurs DF RP

 

Sun DF RP

Sky Violets split Opaline?

Thur Good Feather.

Fri DIS

Sat Good Feather.

Sun DIS

Fri Fostered to Medusa's nest

 

 

Spangles / DF? Blue series

Mon. Fostered to Violet split Opaline's nest

Wed

Fri

 

Mon

Wed

Spangles / DF? Green series

Fri Very pink. Fostered to Medusa's nest

Sat Very pink.

Mon Very pink

Tue Very pink

Fri

Mon fostered to DP Cobalt - attacked

Mon

Thur

So 9 chicks hatched this week.

 

 

So all up 31 chickies that I can account for and 1 maybe 2 more that I have to wait for them to feather up.

 

Edited September 25, 2011 by renee

[**KAZ** 0]

Please explain the probably dead comments

[GenericBlue 0]

Please explain the probably dead comments

lol i know im like ...... huh .what the

[renee 0]

Please explain the probably dead comments

lol i know im like ...... huh .what the

 

 

Well this was for some little unrung chicks. I am assuming that all the "pale deaths" came from the chicks fostered on from the Lute nest, from memory there were 4 of those but then there were a number of fatalities that I really don't know which chicks died and which survived. I think it is between the third Green split RP chick, the Green split Cinnamon and Lute, the Grey split Albino chick, or maybe the Cobalt DP & Green. For some reason I was confident that the 4th and 5th Cobalt and Sky's chicks did not die but I am now wondering ...

 

 

Any way technically speaking I am counting them all as dead until they feather up and I can see what they are.

Edited September 26, 2011 by renee

[**KAZ** 0]

Glad you knew what you were talking about cos we didnt :D :D