Lot's Of Questions To Ask!

[buttonandbows 0]

Hi Everyone !

I'm new to this forum so Hi !

Anyways, I have a few questions, and most of them is best in this category, so instead of me posting a couple of threads, I'm just going to put everything here !

 

I got two lovely baby budgies a few months ago, I'm assuming they are both female, not too sure yet, one has a purple pinkish cere, with blue in the middle ? and the other is purple blue. I was told by the pet owner they 'MIGHT' be both females but they weren't too certain because they were still pretty young. They haven't come out of their cages without being forced, I know forcing budgies is not good, so we stopped forcing them out and they just freak out once they are outside their cage. They aren't too afraid of my hand, infact when i play with them they seem to want my hand there.. They are bonding with me quite quickly but they have been fighting. When we got them they were tamed, but now they will bite if they don't want your hand next to him. At first in the pet shop, they were great buddies, and we ended up only buying one of the pair. It was then I realised the one we got was sort of down, or sad, so we ended up getting the other, and they reunited by preening each other which was cute, but now they play together but they fight over toys and who to eat first or take a bath. I often do a quick 'STOP, no fighting!' and they would stop and stare at me, but is it normal for them to fight so much? Oh yeah, I'm not too sure if it helps but, they might be from a different clutch, because I think one of them is younger than the other, since it was late a few months growing it's long end tail.

 

How to know when to cut their nails ?

When do they need a checkup ?

I bought a sand bar, and they started eating the sand off them, I removed them, but they have probably digested a lot of that sand, should i be concerned?

 

Mealtimes and Food -

I put seeds into a bowl and hang it in the cage with water in another. Sometimes i put a container with water for a bath on sunny days. Every morning, I usually get a plate and put some greens, such as lettuce, celery, apple, corn, peas and basically anything thats in my fridge. I'm careful to not give them anything with salt or sugar, just natual fruit and vegies. I usually remove the plate full off vegies and fruit out once it gets all mucky because my budgies love walking on their food, and then for the rest of the day they have their seeds to full their tummies. Is this bad? because they don't fly around the house to exercise but they play a lot in the cage, and I've head that seed mix is bad for them because they are like sugar or candy to them. I don't want my budgies to get unfit and fat. I've seen other owners preparing food such as vegies and fruit into bowls as well as a small portion of seeds and putting them into the cage. If i were to do that, how do I know it will be enough for the two budgies to last the day since my budgies have seeds there in the cage incase if they were hungry? and I know one of my budgies is a little more aggressive and may eat my other budgie's share of the food. Also, if I were to control what my budgies ate, do I have to make their meals, breakfast, lunch or dinner, or just breakfast and hope it fulls them up all day ?

 

Thanks ! I haven't really read over what I wrote, but if you can take the time to read, and give me advice, it will be great !

By The Way, my budgies are called Button and Bows ,

[GenericBlue 0]

first welcome to the forum

second i think you need to read a few threads on caring for your birds

you say you are worried seed will make them fat but im worried if you are just giving a small amount that, that will cause their fighting as they are fighting over getting enough food each

birds should have seed in reach day and night 24 hours not a bit here and their

veggies is not their main diet

seed is

veggies are to supplement minerals and vitamins that the seed lacks

 

please look in budgie care at feeding to see what you should infact be doing if you still am not sure get back to me right now its late im tied and need sleep but thought id at least welcome you and just make it clear

your birds need fresh water and seed all day long

regards gb

[Guest K&M Breeding]

you are going to get a million different answers - Why? because Every one cares for their birds differently

 

I personally do not think seed should be the biggest part of a birds diet - seed is Fattening and often is what causes fatty liver disease

 

All seed diet is not good

all pellet diet is not good

all fruit/veggie diet is not good

 

what is good a Variety of safe foods

 

my birds diet is (these are just percents its not exact)

their base is Pellets - so 50% of their diet is pellets

40% is a variety (changes weekly) of Veggies, Leafy greens, Cooked foods such as bird bread, cooked noodles,beans,rice,hard boiled eggs mixed veggies combined together and an array of other Healthy safe human foods for them

10% is seed

 

also with fruits make sure to read toxic/safe lists most seeds/cores are toxic(like the apple seeds and core) so you have to make sure you keep away from that) If your feeding melon like watermelon or cantaloup Cut it off the rind and don't feed the rind to the birds, When I cut mine up I make sure all the rind is off including any white pieces that may stay behind after cutting it off the rind

What size cage are they in? This often causes bickering when a cage is too small

 

if in fact you have 2 females- they're well known to bicker(its what we women do ) I am not saying females don't get along I had 2 who bonded well BUT the majority of the time 2 females do not get along and bad things can occur but doesn't always! its just something to keep in the back of your mind if they are in fact 2 females in the future you may end up having to keep them in 2 different cages

 

general rule of thumb is 2 food dishes per bird - most cages are fine with 1 water dish - usually they don't drink at the same time but normally they eat at the same time

 

how much are you giving them? Most packages say 2 tablespoons per bird of seed

 

Give them time to settle in and get used to your home, Some birds settle in quickly others take longer,

Open the cage door when your going to be around to supervise them and let them come out on their own when they feel comfortable

 

give them places to play out side of the cage They make many different types of Play stands/gyms and you can even make your own with bird safe woods and toys

 

are these the only 2 birds you have? Do you have an area or a room you can make up just for them? with toys hanging from the ceiling , Get a grip nets hung from the ceilings(these are expensive but A lot of people make their own for a lot less)

 

just give them time and a lot of things to do and play with and they should at least tolerate each other on most days

 

Bath time - usually i leave it up to the individual bird some of mine like to bath daily some times a few times a day, some weekly some just when ever they feel like it So you can offer the bath every day if you like If I'm running behind Mine will just jump in the water bowl and take a bath

 

Keep in mind birds are like children, they thrive on Routine,and rules

 

Another reason you'll get multiple answers here is this forum is geared toward breeding Show Birds, not owning birds for Pets and they care for their birds a bit differently than people do who have them for pets

 

I may breed birds, but my birds are also my pets

 

do you have enough toys and different types of perches for them?

Edited April 27, 2011 by K&M Breeding

[**KAZ** 0]

first welcome to the forum

second i think you need to read a few threads on caring for your birds

you say you are worried seed will make them fat but im worried if you are just giving a small amount that, that will cause their fighting as they are fighting over getting enough food each

birds should have seed in reach day and night 24 hours not a bit here and their

veggies is not their main diet

seed is

veggies are to supplement minerals and vitamins that the seed lacks

 

please look in budgie care at feeding to see what you should infact be doing if you still am not sure get back to me right now its late im tied and need sleep but thought id at least welcome you and just make it clear

your birds need fresh water and seed all day long

regards gb

I totally agree with GB

 

and seed must be available to them at all times. Birds needs for food differ on a daily basis and some days they will eat more. They will eat more when cold or in winter, they will eat more when breeding. One bird will eat all the food leaving another to starve. If you have several feeding areas in a cage with seed always there you run no risks. If you serve it like a meal in a measured dose expect problems.

 

 

and re pellets

 

Commercial Bird Pellets Good Nutrition??

Contribution from the Dr Jeannie Thomason at Au Natural Bird Notes Blog.

By Dr Jeannie Thomason Copyright © 2008

Finally, I have noticed an ever slowly but increasing amount of skepticism among my bird owning friends towards the many commercial bird foods available these days. Many of the manufactures of these pre-packaged and processed foods claim that their diets duplicate nature or even boast that they are an improvement over nature itself. PLEASE!!!

Is it really realistic to think that we finite humans could duplicate nature in its wholeness and complexity? Improve upon nature?? Are they serious??? How in the world could a dry, processed, fabricated diet ever match or exceed the outstanding quality that can be found in foods God produces in a natural foods diet?

With all the pre-packaged, prepared food choices now on the market, many bird owners have become somewhat dazed about the dos and don'ts of good avian nutrition. From the comments and emails I get, it is clear to see that confusion and frustration abound! While most feed products are touted to be "balanced" or "complete". (just like processed dog and cat food) the manufactures all say that their products are superior in quality. But, are they really?

For some reason, people think that just because a food product is advertised in a magazine or is on your favorite store's shelf that it is safe and healthy to feed your feathered companions. Unfortunately, this is far from the truth. If you haven't already done so, it is time you take a closer look at these feed product labels and make sure you can define each ingredient for the future welfare and love of your birds. I will warn you though; you may be very surprised and not very happy with what you find.

The way in which you feed your birds is of course a very personal choice. However, this choice should be based on information gathered from many sources and some research on your part. I know that you have heard from your bird's Breeder, your veterinarian and even your well meaning friends, as well as advertisements in avian publications that will all influence your decision. Just remember though, while you may receive advice on feeding from well-meaning individuals, you need to do your homework and research this advice before putting it into action.

Many bird owners have decided recently that they do not want to feed their birds a dry, fabricated diet (pellets), as it does not meet their standards as a quality or a "natural" diet. Some bird owners have never fed a fabricated/processed diet to their birds, but have always fed a whole foods diet that is fresh and varied in content. This natural diet usually consists of fresh sprouts and organically grown foods when they are available. Certified organically grown produce is usually your best option and can supply your bird(s) with the top quality nutrition they deserve. Why would anyone want it any other way?

Along with the invention of the "scientifically" formulated feeds ("meals in a bag") so in demand these days, more and more bird owners, with good intentions, are relying on pellets and manufactured handfeeding formulas. They have come to believe these to be the proper source of all nutrients and are so convenient. Sure, the manufacturers promote their products in a very convincing manner with the "nutritionally complete" written in bold print on the label and after all, a pellet diet is a neat, convenient meal in a bag, sure to stay fresh for months while waiting for you to purchase it off the pet store or veterinary office shelf. And of course, they claim that this bag consists of wonderful ingredients that could not be found anywhere else on earth and includes everything your birds will ever require for health and a long life. Come on people! Really! Some of these meals in a bag are also very pretty in color, they are sure to brighten up any birdcage with their presence, even if they don't brighten your bird's appetites. Sheesh!

Do you ever stop to wonder what on earth made them so colorful? Could it be fresh fruit and vegetable juices? Or, maybe it's the chemical dyes so commonly used in these products to make them so eye appealing. Was that the color No. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 40, or all of the above? Shouldn't you also be questioning what magic trick was used to keep these foods fresh on the shelves for who knows how long?

Then finally, don't forget that they have to make sure those little shapes in the bag taste good. Is artificial flavoring used as well? Or perhaps just a scoop or two of sugar is added to each "healthy" batch of feed. Yes, that will make the product complete! almost... whoops, now don't forget to add all those synthetic nutrients and vitamins since any true nutrition that may have been in the ingredients in the first place has now been cooked away. Just a scoopful of pellets a day keeps the doctor away. Again, PLEASE! This is certainly not what I would put my faith in for a healthy avian species appropriate diet.

There are surely, many bird enthusiasts that use commercial diets and therefore, the manufacturing of such "food" is BIG business. But does their "guaranteed adequate nutritional balance" automatically come with the convenient pellet form? How many wild parrots you have seen on T.V. fly down to their local pet shop and buy pretty colored pellets for the week?

There are so many nutrients, live enzymes and natural medicinal components that have been discovered in fresh foods, so many more that are currently being investigated and some that we aren't even aware of yet. So to call a commercial feed complete and even close to nature is a huge exaggeration to say the least!

Here are just some of the risks involved in feeding your birds some of the commercial bird feeds available.

It is nearly impossible to provide your birds a healthy diet out of a bag, jar or canister. Extruded and heat-treated diets leave much to be desired. Most all of these feed products undergo extreme high heat in order to kill any bacteria that may be lurking in the ingredients used. The heat-treatment destroys the naturally occurring enzymes contained in the original food, which had they remained would have assisted in the digestion of those foods. Food enzymes are an important factor in your bird's diet and they come from fresh raw, uncooked foods.

Feeding a dry, fabricated, pellet diet is kind of like feeding a crushed vitamin and mineral supplement without the fresh foods required for digesting and assimilating it. No enzymes will lead to impaired digestion and in turn lead to a weakened immune system and disease.

Remember,that in order to maintain a shelf life, the majority of these diets contain potentially toxic chemical preservatives, i.e., BHT, BHA, and Ethoxyquin. BHT and BHA are used in rubber and petroleum products. Ethoxyquin is used as a pesticide for fruit. These synthetic antioxidants are used in human and animal foods to preserve their fat content. They help break the chain of "free radicals" and prevent microbiological spoilage and rancidity.

This one really cracked me up, one of the major brands BRAGS the following: "Extrusion cooking enhances carbohydrate bioavailability. More digestible than cold-pressed pelleted diets or seed mixtures, and offer maximum digestibility and nutrient absorption". This is nuts! Birds were not designed to eat cooked foods, ever seen a parrot roasting grain or frying a bug with some flowers? Cooking grains may enhance carbohydrate bioavailability for a human but not for a bird!

Have you looked at the ingredients used to make the pellets? Listed below are the ingredients of the most popular pellets on the market today. While you read through the ingredients, remember, these are not only cooked ingredients but ask yourself if these are things a wild parrot would seek out and eat in the jungle:

*Ground Shelled Sunflower Seeds, *Ground Hulless Barley, *Ground Soybeans, *Ground Shelled Peanuts, *Ground Green Peas, *Ground Lentils, *Ground Yellow Corn, *Ground Rice, *Ground Toasted Oat Groats, Psyllium, *Ground Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Spirulina, Montmorillonite Clay, Ground Dried Sea Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Sea Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite. *CERTIFIED ORGANIC INGREDIENT

Ground corn, soybean meal, cracked wheat, wheat germ meal, vegetable oil, sucrose, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, iodized salt, DL-methionine, choline chloride, ascorbic acid, natural mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, citric acid, natural and artificial colors, artificial flavors, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, vitamin A, vitamin E, vitamin D3, vitamin K, vitamin B12, thiamine, niacin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, rib

Ground Corn, Ground Wheat, Peanut Meal, Soy Oil,Soy Meal, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Yucca schidigen Extract,Salt, Calcium Carbonate, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide (carrier for liquid antioxidants), Sodium Selenite (on Calcium Carbonate), Niacin, Alpha-Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Oxide, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vit. A Acetate, Thiamine, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vit K), Cyanocobalamin (VitB12), Vit D3 Sup. Folic Acid, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Propionic Acid, Ammonium Hydroxide, Acetic Acid, Sorbic Acid, Tartaric Acid, and natural apple flavoring.

Now looking at these ingredients, please consider these questions.

"Do YOU know if the feed package ingredients you are serving your birds lists chemicals?" (If not, it is time to read the label.)

"Do you know whether or not chemical preservatives were added to the ingredients BEFORE the manufacturer purchased them and created the final feed product?" (If the manufacturer didn't add the chemicals to the feed then they do not have to list them on the label.)

Were you aware that sugar is often added for palatability in the form of sucrose or corn syrup and artificial coloring to please YOUR eye? Did you realize that artificial colors are derived from coal tar dyes or petroleum. Both refined sugar and chemical dyes can cause short term as well as long term damage, by weakening your bird's immune systems and compromising their complete line of defense. For example, over the short term, sugar can cause illnesses, such as yeast (Candida) infections and long term has the potential to cause other health threating diseases.

Since most of the ingredients in bird foods are actually foreign to them in the wild or even toxic to the body, your bird's body attempts to expel them through the process of detoxification and elimination in the liver and kidneys. Over the long term these nonnutritive ingredients and synthetic as well as chemical additives can cause enlargement of vital organs, hormonal dysfunction, immune system disorders and degenerative diseases, thus a shorter lifespan.

Why take chances to begin with when much safer and more natural foods and diets are available. The important thing to do, is to look for a natural alternative rather than figure out what the acceptable chemical level might be.

Since all products are not created totally equally and there are different levels of quality, you are responsible to your bird and its health to take a careful look at processed packaging and question these products before you buy them. If you are interested in providing a preservative free, species specific diet to your birds, then check all labels of products before buy and not only define each ingredient for yourself but ask yourself if it something your parrot would find and eat in the wild.

This whole dilemma over bird diets began several years ago when exclusively dry seeds were compared to pellets. Why not compare a whole foods diet consisting of fresh fruits, vegetables, sprouts, flowers, and insects to seeds and/or pellets? Certainly the whole foods diet is superior!

After all is said and done, you, the bird owner must form your own opinion about what is best to feed your birds and have confidence in the choice of bird food you decide to feed.

I personally feel that the best diet in the world for birds is one that emulates their natural diet in the wild; I mean, doesn't it just make sense that these are the foods that God created for our birds to be biologically correct?. A natural home-prepared diet is really not difficult to do correctly and efficiently, and the health rewards for the birds are both great and obvious.

To achieve the best long-term health results, fresh natural foods should make up the majority of your bird's diet. For those who feel they must feed a commercial diet, I personally do not recommend that it make up any more than 10-20% of any bird's diet total diet and of course, find one that is freeze dried or dehydrated vs. extruded and has whole food ingredients, not just cooked cereal!

If one is going to supplement a bird's diet with pellets, then I recommend BirD-elicious.

Let's get back to nature and offer the fresh foods that our parrots were intended to thrive on. By doing this, you can keep your parrot's immune systems strong and its body resistant to disease and infection. The basic truths of nutrition are simple, and easy to apply once the understanding is gained. A natural fresh diet has no nutritional competition and is part of what only nature can provide us. After all, God's gifts of nature are the ultimate gifts we can offer our birds.

Edited April 28, 2011 by **KAZ**

[buttonandbows 0]

thankyou for all your quick responses !

 

- there is plenty of seed in the cage, the problem is, there is only one bowl, so there tends to be a lot of fighting over who gets the bowl first. I'm hoping on purchasing another bowl.

- i feed my budgies fruit and vegies, i've just made scrambled eggs without oil or anything, mixed in with some vegies, because their main diet right now is seeds, but they eat lots of vegies.

- we have a playground which the budgies do not enjoy.

 

if i do let them have their own room, obviously checking for wires and powers, would they just do their buisness on the carpets?

 

i saw a video, where this woman kept 2 budgies in the same cage and she put in two bowls, one assigned for each of them, and they would eat some and just switch bowls every minute or so. right now, bows (the larger but younger one) is always eating lots of seeds and always getting buttons to come down from the seed bowls.

 

the cage is enough room for the budgies, however, we wanted to get a larger cage, but we got ripped off, we ended up paying 400 dollars overall for the budgies, cage, toys, playground, and some budgie seed mix, so its a bit hard to get cash out of our pockets. the cage door itself is small and hard to take things from the cage and out. if you have any good online websites which sell good big cages for low prices, please let me know ! having a larger cage, would mean the budgies can have their own personal space, and wont fight as much since they are females

 

THANKYOU !

[Finnie 0]

Hi! I just wanted to ask, are you sure they are both females? Because the way you described them up at the top of the thread sounds like boys (Not that it matters, although two boys will generally get a long nicely.) Do they have any white on their ceres? Or better yet, can you post photos? We love photos here!

[Hezz 0]

Hello to Buttons and Bows. Why don't you just get another seed dish? I don't think I have seen a cage set-up with more than one bird with only one food source. To my mind it's a bit like asking a dog to share its bone - like that's going to happen!!! Certainly not for starters. Maybe when the birds settled in and are confortable with both their mate and surrounding, they may be willing to share. I think it would be an easy solution to something which could easily get out of hand (the fighting, I mean).

 

If you have natural perches you shouldn't have to worry about their claws. Undue claw growth is usually only associated with certain health problems and the natural perches not only keep their claws short but also give them something else to chew on - a very necessary budgie activity. There is probably lots more, I can't think of for now.

[Alinta123 0]

So I have a cage outside. Quite a big one with 14 budgies who are all very happy. But I've managed to tame one of them. He sits on my finger in the cage. I want to bring him inside my home in a safe room to interact and teach him more tricks in a bigger setting without the other budgies.  

But how do I take him inside as he's in a cage outside. I'm scared he will fly away and I can't move the cage. Please help me.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Alinta123