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Hi All!

This is one of my boys I bred last year. It was my first pairing from a Cin. Grey-Green Rec. Pied hen X Cinnamon Grey cock.

This boy is split rec. pied and is a grey-green cinnamon. He has moulted out nice, but because I am fairly new to this, do you think he is worth keeping?

024.jpg

026.jpg

 

And I am considering putting him to this hen:

bird027.jpg

 

This is also one of his siblings. He had another grey-green cinnamon and grey cinnamon sibling, but they have been given to one of my friends for her pet-line. I kept this boy back because as a fledgling he presented unusual markings, and he has moulted out again quite different.

Younger:

sales021.jpg

sales022.jpg

 

Now:

025.jpg

Edited by Squeak_Crumble

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024.jpg He seems to have width above the cere and some directional feather. he has backskull. His mask is a little short and his stance is bad.

You forgot to mention he is cinnamon too.

I wouldnt put him to that hen. What else do you have ?

Edited by KAZ

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This boy is split rec. pied and is a grey-green cinnamon.

 

:D

 

 

024.jpg

He seems to have width above the cere and some directional feather. he has backskull. His mask is a little short and his stance is bad.

You forgot to mention he is cinnamon too.

I wouldnt put him to that hen. What else do you have ?

 

I have a normal grey-green hen I could put him to maybe. I want some more pied's though. Wait, if I put him to the normal hen could I get rec. pieds?

Bad shot of parents:

3B3FB089.jpg

 

Mother:

RIMG0450.jpg

 

The dad really does have a fantastic blow, but I have suddenly realised I have cleaned my photo's and have none of him, apart from this

Picture005.jpg

Edited by Squeak_Crumble

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This boy is split rec. pied and is a grey-green cinnamon.

 

:P

 

 

:D sorry ........was busy trying to do too many things at once :D

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Hi S-C

 

I concur with Kaz on the round up of things I don't like about the bird. But he has nice enough feather.

 

The cinnamon grey is his father yes? I don't really think the cin grey-green is an improvement on his dad but then as a split rec pied maybe that's not unexpected - he is an improvement on his mum so that's a positive step.

 

Also does he always sit squat on the perch? If so then that's something you have to be aware of that will often pass onto his chicks.

 

And the cinnamon is a drag in rec pieds. It's an allowable combination for showing but really does reduce the nice contrast effect of the pied but hey if they are the best birds you have then using them to improve the line is the way to go.

 

So my advise here would be that if you HAVE a better bird than him to use then use it. If not and he is your best option use him to go forward with your rec pieds but be ruthless with your cull.

 

The brother appears to be a crossover between a normal and an opaline. Gary Armstrongs Green (or Grey Green maybe) from the Tassie? nationals was the same. We had a judges workshop and examined the bird and decided it was what we coliquially called a "normaline".

 

Oh and NO if you put him to a normal hen (not split for rec pied) you cannot get rec pieds. Both parents must at least be splits.

Edited by nubbly5

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Thankyou!

 

So probably the best advies would be try and find a better hen, but she is okay if I must? Apparently she throws better chicks then herself, so I am hoping it will be okay. Yes, The cinnamon grey is his father. I think th grey-green cinnamon is better in body then his father, as the father is quite small. Then hen also has quite a flat head, so I was hoping it would give me a nice bird. As I am begginer, would you reccomend pairing the two together again? Then hen is currently in with a cobalt split albino cock, and they have three chicks ( I only found out after that the father was split :| )

 

As for the "normaline", is this just a genetic quirk, or would the parents carry genes to produce a chick like that again? Is he worth keeping, and would he be showed as opaline or normal is he was not cinnamon? Should I try pairing him to opaline, or normal?

 

Sorry for all the questions! :D

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No worries!

 

The normaline is probably not worth pursuing. They get penalised in shows whatever class you put them into (adhering neither to the normal or the opaline standard) and if it were me it would not something I would be keen to perpetuate in my stud. I personally would not consider using him UNLESS he was a TOP bird (features wise) which, as far as I can see, he is not.

 

The hen for the grey green cinnamon seems nice enough and if she breeds better than herself then so much the better. To me she is very lacking in feather but he is not bad so maybe in that respect, it's a reasonable choice. Remember all the hens they breed will also be cinnamon and all the cocks will be split for cinnamon.

 

Repairing the original hen and cock? Well to be honest I would be trying to get away from a cinnamon to cinnamon pairing if I were breeding rec pieds so would be hunting around for the best normal cock (even if he turns out to be split for cinnamon) I could find. Hey but that is just me. If you have a better normal cock than the cinnamon grey, consider that for the hen but if not and the cinnamon grey is the best you have then go for it. Remember that improving recessive varieties comes from using birds of better quality to breed quality splits. The best normals (or cinnamons etc) you can use, will give you the best splits, will give you the best recessives - or so the theory goes!

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I am considering putting her (rec. pied mum) to a grey-green boy I got. He is only a red-ringer though, so next season. I am also not wanting pied's to be my major line, I am focusing on cleabordies. At the start I wanted cinnamons, but I have decided to only focus on YF Cinnamons. This first pairing was just a little test type pair, just to breed some birds. I have now decided I want to breed just a couple pieds as a line to have a fiddle with, and if I get okay birds that is just a positive.

 

I will get some more aviary pictures tommorrow for you all, and we will see what we can find.

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I am considering putting her (rec. pied mum) to a grey-green boy I got. He is only a red-ringer though, so next season. I am also not wanting pied's to be my major line, I am focusing on cleabordies. At the start I wanted cinnamons, but I have decided to only focus on YF Cinnamons. This first pairing was just a little test type pair, just to breed some birds. I have now decided I want to breed just a couple pieds as a line to have a fiddle with, and if I get okay birds that is just a positive.

 

I will get some more aviary pictures tommorrow for you all, and we will see what we can find.

 

 

Red ringer ? Remember the blue rings came into use 1st September last year so your red ringer may well be old enough to breed.

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Yup, I know, but I have a policy to myself that I only breed birds two years after birth (eg. only black and green rings this year, the next year black,red and green), especially if I dont know when they were born. *shrug* That is just the way I wish to breed, so I can hopefully get more fertile clutches.

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okay, I have some shots of a couple cock birds I would consider putting her (mother) to:

 

Sky Cock:

25154_109190612430869_1000001979131.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/S...le/RIMG0024.jpg

 

Grey-Green Cock:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/S...le/RIMG0025.jpg

 

Cock she has 3 chicks with now:

RIMG0031.jpg

bird025.jpg

 

Maybe? Light Green Opaline Cinnamon:

RIMG0033-1.jpg

 

Aviary Shots:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/S...le/RIMG0029.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/S...le/RIMG0030.jpg

Edited by Dave_McMinn
Images were not resized to 640 x 480.

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It's pretty well impossible to give any real sensible advise from individual photo's like this. Better if you can compare them directly together in the same show box. But here are my thoughts based on what I can see - remember to mold them to what the birds really show in the aviary!!!

 

I really don't much like the sky in the first photo but in the second he looks better as he is blowing cap nicely. In the first he appears to have no real feather to speak of and appears very narrow. He has a reasonableish mask but I'd like to see it longer with better spots but he's not bad. How big is he compared to the cobalt?

 

The second bird looks like he comes straight up from the cere without any directional feather but does seem to have more feather generally than the sky. Hard to guage his size on the picture though. I tend to use the line of the roof on the standard show cage as a guide when looking at pics so aviary pics for me give no real reference.

 

The cobalt (is he in a standard show cage?) looks on the small size. If you are trying to improve a line make sure you outcross with the best birds you have available. If you really don't care about improving a line of birds just breed pretty colours, they sell better. Otherwise don't waste your time on using lesser birds UNLESS they specifically suit a particular aim and they are the best you can get i.e. dark factor addition to a line.

 

Although it's hard to really tell here, the cin opaline lt green appears to be about the best of the cocks in the pictures. He seems to have good mask, shoulder and spots. Sits okay maybe also a bit on the smaller side??? Without seeing them together, in a show cage and him front too it's a bit hard to tell - sorry. Just remember using him will give you 100% cinnamon babies - okay if that's acceptable to you.

 

From my point of view I would personally choose the best normal I had to put to her so as to steere away from cinnamon a bit - 2 reasons here - rec pieds look way better in normal and your stud already looks to have a lot of cinnamon (just from the pics). If the choice is between the 3 normals you have here then I'd be tempted for the grey green DEPENDING on his size overall compared to the others but remembering you probably need to look for some directional feather in you other rec pied pairings as it's a bit lacking from him. It's all a bit of a jigsaw puzzle and the trick comes in trying to add the right pieces!

 

Don't know if I've helped here but those a my thoughts just based on what I can see from the pics.

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It's pretty well impossible to give any real sensible advise from individual photo's like this. Better if you can compare them directly together in the same show box. But here are my thoughts based on what I can see - remember to mold them to what the birds really show in the aviary!!!

 

I really don't much like the sky in the first photo but in the second he looks better as he is blowing cap nicely. In the first he appears to have no real feather to speak of and appears very narrow. He has a reasonableish mask but I'd like to see it longer with better spots but he's not bad. How big is he compared to the cobalt?

He is quite narrow and lengthy. The cobalt is wider compared to him, but not as long in the head or body.

 

The second bird looks like he comes straight up from the cere without any directional feather but does seem to have more feather generally than the sky. Hard to guage his size on the picture though. I tend to use the line of the roof on the standard show cage as a guide when looking at pics so aviary pics for me give no real reference.

 

He would be my best normal bird, I will chuck all 4 in some show cages tommorrow for some piccies.

 

The cobalt (is he in a standard show cage?) looks on the small size. If you are trying to improve a line make sure you outcross with the best birds you have available. If you really don't care about improving a line of birds just breed pretty colours, they sell better. Otherwise don't waste your time on using lesser birds UNLESS they specifically suit a particular aim and they are the best you can get i.e. dark factor addition to a line.

 

Yes, He is in a standard cage. He is an okay size, not my largest but not smallest either.

 

Although it's hard to really tell here, the cin opaline lt green appears to be about the best of the cocks in the pictures. He seems to have good mask, shoulder and spots. Sits okay maybe also a bit on the smaller side??? Without seeing them together, in a show cage and him front too it's a bit hard to tell - sorry. Just remember using him will give you 100% cinnamon babies - okay if that's acceptable to you.

 

He would be one of my best cock birds, he isn't small at all (compared to some birds yes I suppose). Here is another picture, don't know if it helps:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash...3_2294841_n.jpg

 

From my point of view I would personally choose the best normal I had to put to her so as to steere away from cinnamon a bit - 2 reasons here - rec pieds look way better in normal and your stud already looks to have a lot of cinnamon (just from the pics). If the choice is between the 3 normals you have here then I'd be tempted for the grey green DEPENDING on his size overall compared to the others but remembering you probably need to look for some directional feather in you other rec pied pairings as it's a bit lacking from him. It's all a bit of a jigsaw puzzle and the trick comes in trying to add the right pieces!

 

Don't know if I've helped here but those a my thoughts just based on what I can see from the pics.

 

Thankyou so much! You have helped heaps. I will put them in a cage tommorow, next to each other. Thanks again!

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