clearwing 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 5,830 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 290 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,590 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 7, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2010 As I quoted on previous threads, my intention has been to run my best cocks over all my better hens this season. Well, the season began well with six of the top seven pair having fertile eggs [ which are just begginning to hatch] The problem has come on the second pairings. The first cock refuses to accept any other hen but remains faithful to his origional mate from last season, so after they produced a good round of eggs I've had to transfer their eggs and let them lay again, he just won't look at another mate. [ luckily this pair has produced winners for me] In box two, great news 7 fertile eggs, but when I remove the cock the hen gets off the eggs, so again I've transferred their eggs and the cock is now running between his two preferred hens. All the others have been fine, the hens are sitting well and the cocks have been mated to new partners. I write this as a lesson for newer breeders, we have our plans, but its the birds which must breed. We need to do all we can to maximize the breeding results of our best and often expensive pairs. The only way to do this is to be observant as all birds have their own personalities and the better you know your stock the better your breeding season will be. Cheers Clearwing Link to comment
**KAZ** 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 1,976 Group: Site Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 521 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 25,294 Content Per Day: 1.28 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 152,977 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 24/01/06 Status: Offline Last Seen: January 6, 2015 Birthday: 07/01/1956 Share Posted March 29, 2010 They certainly keep us on our toes dont they Clearwing ? Link to comment
GenericBlue 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 4,737 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,156 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 28,240 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 08/09/1973 Share Posted March 29, 2010 not only do you get better breeding rezults but you can notice if a birds acting off for its normal self and stop your whole flock from becomming ill and save the bird in question just by noting its personality trates As I quoted on previous threads, my intention has been to run my best cocks over all my better hens this season. Well, the season began well with six of the top seven pair having fertile eggs [ which are just begginning to hatch] The problem has come on the second pairings. The first cock refuses to accept any other hen but remains faithful to his origional mate from last season, so after they produced a good round of eggs I've had to transfer their eggs and let them lay again, he just won't look at another mate. [ luckily this pair has produced winners for me]In box two, great news 7 fertile eggs, but when I remove the cock the hen gets off the eggs, so again I've transferred their eggs and the cock is now running between his two preferred hens. All the others have been fine, the hens are sitting well and the cocks have been mated to new partners. I write this as a lesson for newer breeders, we have our plans, but its the birds which must breed. We need to do all we can to maximize the breeding results of our best and often expensive pairs. The only way to do this is to be observant as all birds have their own personalities and the better you know your stock the better your breeding season will be. Cheers Clearwing Link to comment
libby66 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 5,898 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 206 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,245 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 31/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: July 12, 2012 Birthday: 13/11/1966 Share Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) As I quoted on previous threads, my intention has been to run my best cocks over all my better hens this season. Well, the season began well with six of the top seven pair having fertile eggs [ which are just begginning to hatch] The problem has come on the second pairings. The first cock refuses to accept any other hen but remains faithful to his origional mate from last season, so after they produced a good round of eggs I\'ve had to transfer their eggs and let them lay again, he just won\'t look at another mate. [ luckily this pair has produced winners for me]In box two, great news 7 fertile eggs, but when I remove the cock the hen gets off the eggs, so again I\'ve transferred their eggs and the cock is now running between his two preferred hens. All the others have been fine, the hens are sitting well and the cocks have been mated to new partners. I write this as a lesson for newer breeders, we have our plans, but its the birds which must breed. We need to do all we can to maximize the breeding results of our best and often expensive pairs. The only way to do this is to be observant as all birds have their own personalities and the better you know your stock the better your breeding season will be. Cheers Clearwing Hi Clearwing,just a quick possibly dumb question when you transfer the eggs do you transfer them to another pair that have eggs in the nest or a pair that are bonded with no eggs? And the cock running between the two hens,will the hens be raising the chicks on their own? thanks Libby Edited March 29, 2010 by KAZ Link to comment
**KAZ** 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 1,976 Group: Site Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 521 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 25,294 Content Per Day: 1.28 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 152,977 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 24/01/06 Status: Offline Last Seen: January 6, 2015 Birthday: 07/01/1956 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Hi Clearwing,just a quick possibly dumb question when you transfer the eggs do you transfer them to another pair that have eggs in the nest or a pair that are bonded with no eggs? And the cock running between the two hens,will the hens be raising the chicks on their own? thanks Libby You CANNOT transfer eggs to a pair with no eggs. Link to comment
splat 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 3,340 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 202 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,891 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 27,770 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 17/04/07 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 19, 2014 Birthday: 13/05/1958 Share Posted March 29, 2010 To foster parents with eggs or a nest that has clear eggs. Link to comment
libby66 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 5,898 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 206 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,245 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 31/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: July 12, 2012 Birthday: 13/11/1966 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Thanks Kaz and Splat i knew it was a dumb question but i didn't know the answer and now i do.Like they say you learn something new everyday, mind you i learn about 10 new things everyday on this forum so thatnkyou everyone. Libby. Link to comment
**KAZ** 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 1,976 Group: Site Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 521 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 25,294 Content Per Day: 1.28 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 152,977 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 24/01/06 Status: Offline Last Seen: January 6, 2015 Birthday: 07/01/1956 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Thanks Kaz and Splat i knew it was a dumb question but i didn't know the answer and now i do.Like they say you learn something new everyday, mind you i learn about 10 new things everyday on this forum so thatnkyou everyone. Libby. No dumb questions and I should have explained myself better. Tried to rush things and missed telling you some more. The reason the pair that will be fosters have to have eggs is...........they must be ready to incubate or already incubating. If you put eggs in an empty nest the hen will smash them or throw them out as she will see it as cleaning out the nest for herself. Link to comment
libby66 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 5,898 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 206 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,245 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 31/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: July 12, 2012 Birthday: 13/11/1966 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Thanks Kaz Link to comment
Dean_NZ 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 4,879 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 974 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 5,370 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 18, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2010 This would be a good time for AI I havent had to use it for a while, but Im sure glad I know how! Its definately like any other skill - better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Worth looking into as you can take a semen sample from a cock that is bonded or even caged with another hen and transfer it to another laying hen with no partner or an infertile 'feeder' cock. Link to comment
shannon bird breeder 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 4,671 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,386 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 7,755 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 17/09/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: January 24, 2011 Birthday: 12/09/1994 Share Posted March 29, 2010 i have got a hen now with 4 babys with no cock bird and she is going okay i have never let a hen rase babys on her own befor i got this cock bird he is my best bird and i had him for about 12 moths now and i got 2 babys off him but the hen kill the babys i just pair him with a green cinnamon hen and i will like to move him on after the hen has eggs but i dont relly know how to move him on to a new hen any tips ??? thank's shannon Link to comment
clearwing 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 5,830 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 290 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,590 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 Libby I always pair up a few clearwings at the same time that I pair up my best birds, if necessary the clearwings become feeders, their eggs are removed and the eggs of the better pair take their place. Thats why I don't have a lot of clearwings, even though they are my favourite variety. This would be a good time for AI I havent had to use it for a while, but Im sure glad I know how! Its definately like any other skill - better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Worth looking into as you can take a semen sample from a cock that is bonded or even caged with another hen and transfer it to another laying hen with no partner or an infertile 'feeder' cock.I have used AI years ago, but have chosen not to continue the practice. I believe breeding capability and fertility are factors we must always consider when culling our stock.I will seperate the number one pair after this round and will not fly them in the same avairy, thus hopefully breaking the bond before I breed again in Spring.i have got a hen now with 4 babys with no cock bird and she is going okay i have never let a hen rase babys on her own befor i got this cock bird he is my best bird and i had him for about 12 moths now and i got 2 babys off him but the hen kill the babys i just pair him with a green cinnamon hen and i will like to move him on after the hen has eggs but i dont relly know how to move him on to a new hen any tips ??? thank's shannon90% of the time you can just remove the cock and introduce him to another hen, as long as the hen is in breeding condition you should have no trouble. Link to comment
Matt Welchman 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 5,835 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 361 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 2,075 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 21, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2010 As I quoted on previous threads, my intention has been to run my best cocks over all my better hens this season. Well, the season began well with six of the top seven pair having fertile eggs [ which are just begginning to hatch] The problem has come on the second pairings. The first cock refuses to accept any other hen but remains faithful to his origional mate from last season, so after they produced a good round of eggs I've had to transfer their eggs and let them lay again, he just won't look at another mate. [ luckily this pair has produced winners for me]In box two, great news 7 fertile eggs, but when I remove the cock the hen gets off the eggs, so again I've transferred their eggs and the cock is now running between his two preferred hens. All the others have been fine, the hens are sitting well and the cocks have been mated to new partners. I write this as a lesson for newer breeders, we have our plans, but its the birds which must breed. We need to do all we can to maximize the breeding results of our best and often expensive pairs. The only way to do this is to be observant as all birds have their own personalities and the better you know your stock the better your breeding season will be. Cheers Clearwing One of the best Threads Ive seen here for a while Clearwing, Nice job . I hope all beginners take note as they will save themselves alot of disappointment Link to comment
libby66 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 5,898 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 206 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,245 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 31/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: July 12, 2012 Birthday: 13/11/1966 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Thanks clearwing,i'll file that away for the day i start breeding my show budgies,i've just started out with pet types to gain abit of experience, before breeding my recent additions from Liv. Link to comment
GenericBlue 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 4,737 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,156 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 28,240 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 08/09/1973 Share Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) im afraid being a bit daft i don't totally understand the moving the cock around bit when i say this i mean as a beginner i would not dream to try this as i truly believe you need to have bird room management in tacked first eg know how to foster eggs chicks know how to save new hatched chick from not being feed or just from needing help hatching i feel if you don't know bird management then to try and run your best cocks over your hens is a disaster waiting to happen i don't believe any beginner should try their hand at it until they have success fully raised say a year of chicks and learn how to recognize faults and difficulty's that may arise with two birds rearing a clutch let alone one hen doing all the work still a great thread but i think you need to know what your doing before trying your hand at this As I quoted on previous threads, my intention has been to run my best cocks over all my better hens this season. Well, the season began well with six of the top seven pair having fertile eggs [ which are just begginning to hatch] The problem has come on the second pairings. The first cock refuses to accept any other hen but remains faithful to his origional mate from last season, so after they produced a good round of eggs I've had to transfer their eggs and let them lay again, he just won't look at another mate. [ luckily this pair has produced winners for me]In box two, great news 7 fertile eggs, but when I remove the cock the hen gets off the eggs, so again I've transferred their eggs and the cock is now running between his two preferred hens. All the others have been fine, the hens are sitting well and the cocks have been mated to new partners. I write this as a lesson for newer breeders, we have our plans, but its the birds which must breed. We need to do all we can to maximize the breeding results of our best and often expensive pairs. The only way to do this is to be observant as all birds have their own personalities and the better you know your stock the better your breeding season will be. Cheers Clearwing One of the best Threads Ive seen here for a while Clearwing, Nice job . I hope all beginners take note as they will save themselves alot of disappointment Edited March 29, 2010 by GenericBlue Link to comment
JimmyBanks 0 Posted March 29, 2010 Member ID: 4,130 Group: Site Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,370 Content Per Day: 0.75 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 25,112 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: July 1, 2015 Birthday: 12/02/1982 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Great thread clearwing. I think so often it's the practical things that we beginners don't see coming and when they happen we can worry, a lot. Often it's a simple thing and posts like this are extremely valueable... It pays to have a plan but it also pays to be flexible and not force the birds to do things they don't want... Could save a valued cock or hens life. Link to comment
GenericBlue 0 Posted April 10, 2010 Member ID: 4,737 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,156 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 28,240 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 08/09/1973 Share Posted April 10, 2010 any updates here clearwing how did it all go ive always wondered about running a cock between hens but dont think im near ready to do this how was your success Link to comment
clearwing 0 Posted April 10, 2010 Member ID: 5,830 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 290 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,590 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 Results have been mixed, but overall I'm pleased. Box 1. 3 chicks hatched, being raaised by feeders. Second clutch laid and eggs transferred so that this important pair can rest for breeding in spring. Box2. 4 chicks hatched, being raised by feeders. Cock now has fertile eggs to both hens. Box3. five year old cock did't fill an egg. Box 4. 3chicks being raised by hen. Cock now with second hen. Box5. 3chicks being raised by hen, cock has 5 fertile eggs with next hen. Box6. 3 chicks being raised by feeders, cock now with another hen. Five of my best six cocks have done well and have 16 chicks between them, these numbers are abit below average for me, but its not easy when you only mate up a few pair because your options for shifting eggs and chicks are limited. Having said that I'm pleased as all these chicks are from top pairs, so I'm waiting to see how they develope. Cheers Clearwing Link to comment
Dave_McMinn 0 Posted April 10, 2010 Member ID: 3,092 Group: Global Moderators Followers: 0 Topic Count: 103 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,831 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 21,560 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 13/01/07 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 2, 2018 Birthday: 23/05/1975 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Thanks for this thread Clearwing. It provides some good info to us less experienced breeders. Food for thought.... Link to comment
Dean_NZ 0 Posted April 11, 2010 Member ID: 4,879 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 974 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 5,370 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 18, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Libby I always pair up a few clearwings at the same time that I pair up my best birds, if necessary the clearwings become feeders, their eggs are removed and the eggs of the better pair take their place. Thats why I don't have a lot of clearwings, even though they are my favourite variety.This would be a good time for AI :laughter: I havent had to use it for a while, but Im sure glad I know how! Its definately like any other skill - better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Worth looking into as you can take a semen sample from a cock that is bonded or even caged with another hen and transfer it to another laying hen with no partner or an infertile 'feeder' cock. I have used AI years ago, but have chosen not to continue the practice. I believe breeding capability and fertility are factors we must always consider when culling our stock.I will seperate the number one pair after this round and will not fly them in the same avairy, thus hopefully breaking the bond before I breed again in Spring.i have got a hen now with 4 babys with no cock bird and she is going okay i have never let a hen rase babys on her own befor i got this cock bird he is my best bird and i had him for about 12 moths now and i got 2 babys off him but the hen kill the babys :laughter: i just pair him with a green cinnamon hen and i will like to move him on after the hen has eggs but i dont relly know how to move him on to a new hen any tips ??? thank's shannon90% of the time you can just remove the cock and introduce him to another hen, as long as the hen is in breeding condition you should have no trouble. A very good point. I don't believe AI should be used exclusively - it simply another tool and no amount of AI can ever replace good husbandry and knowledge regarding the health, nutrition, fertility and wellbeing of the birds. I think if anything you must be MORE careful with AI than with regular pairing as you could successfully AI a cock that might not fill eggs on his own and potentially pass this problem on. As you mentioned breeding capability and fertility is not something you want to ignore or bypass using AI. Therefore it makes sense to only AI cocks with good or superb fertility who (where possible) also have the attitude and behaviour to successfully pursue hens and actively engage in breeding behaviours. The reason I promoted AI as a possible solution in this case is because the scenario was putting one cock across multiple hens - this apparently worked well and shows the cock was able to handle fertilising and courting multiple females showing he has fertility and the right attitude, and in the second round for whatever reason he seemed to favour one hen so in my mind this was a good scenario where AI 'could' have been utilised to get the same results in the second round as where achieved naturally in the first. If the cock had not filled eggs or not behaved from the beginning I would not recommend it. And as I have also said elsewhere, I have so far only utilised AI to get chicks from a healthy fertile cock who cannot mount because of a wing injury :laughter: Link to comment
GenericBlue 0 Posted April 11, 2010 Member ID: 4,737 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,156 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 28,240 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 08/09/1973 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Results have been mixed, but overall I'm pleased.Box 1. 3 chicks hatched, being raaised by feeders. Second clutch laid and eggs transferred so that this important pair can rest for breeding in spring. Box2. 4 chicks hatched, being raised by feeders. Cock now has fertile eggs to both hens. Box3. five year old cock did't fill an egg. Box 4. 3chicks being raised by hen. Cock now with second hen. Box5. 3chicks being raised by hen, cock has 5 fertile eggs with next hen. Box6. 3 chicks being raised by feeders, cock now with another hen. Five of my best six cocks have done well and have 16 chicks between them, these numbers are abit below average for me, but its not easy when you only mate up a few pair because your options for shifting eggs and chicks are limited. Having said that I'm pleased as all these chicks are from top pairs, so I'm waiting to see how they develope. Cheers Clearwing thank you i couldnt of gotten a better awnser you explained exactly how you did it as well as rezults food for thought as i myself culled right back to only a few number of birds and wasnt sure where to go from here i may look into this with some assistance though i would never try this on my own being all top birds your rezults should be good quality over quantity i always say Link to comment
clearwing 0 Posted April 11, 2010 Member ID: 5,830 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 290 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,590 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/01/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 Another quick update, I managed to brake the bond of pair one by seperating them for ten days, the cock was placed in a cage alone, where he couldn't see any other birds. Today I introduced him to another hen, they mated immediately. Now I know April is not a good time to be pairing birds, but, this is my best stock cock bird, he is in condition as is the hen, and they are one of my preferred matings so I'm going for it while the birds are willing. Cheers Clearwing Link to comment
Dean_NZ 0 Posted April 12, 2010 Member ID: 4,879 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 974 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 5,370 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 18, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Another quick update, I managed to brake the bond of pair one by seperating them for ten days, the cock was placed in a cage alone, where he couldn't see any other birds. Today I introduced him to another hen, they mated immediately. Now I know April is not a good time to be pairing birds, but, this is my best stock cock bird, he is in condition as is the hen, and they are one of my preferred matings so I'm going for it while the birds are willing. Cheers Clearwing Sometimes your greatest success in breeding comes from acting when your birds are ready, rather than when we are ready. Fingers crossed and good luck! Link to comment
colinc 0 Posted April 13, 2010 Member ID: 6,010 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 8 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 50 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: November 24, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Just something to keep in mind. I'd rather ask a stupid question, than make a stupid mistake. Just my pennies worth. Thanks Kaz and Splat i knew it was a dumb question but i didn't know the answer and now i do.Like they say you learn something new everyday, mind you i learn about 10 new things everyday on this forum so thatnkyou everyone. Libby. Link to comment
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