Culls and Helping the Purchaser

[LittleBudgie2005 0]

Yes exactly right Nubbly gee I could end up with one of yours one , somehow and and I would like to know background to a degree, not shoved off.

Wow Renee... Some really strong words in these posts...I started off with pet size budgies and still use them to this day, As not all varietis of show budgies are big and buff and they need that kick start to help improve them... Which is what I thought breeding budgies was all about... Improving what we had and enjoying the journey along the way...If show breeders had told me sorry I'm not given you any info go away, I don't think I would have ever got into budgies like I have today...And I wasn't a member of any club when I purchased alot of my show budgies, Brett Wood, Hans S, Rita, Gina House and many others and not ONCE did someone say 'oh you are not with a club sorry go somewhere else'... If I was like that I would be ashamed of who I am...And I still like to walk around the pet shops, just because I go there doesn't mean I buy from there... Its called checking the market out and everyone does it when the shop, look in catalogues for a cheaper price, sale items, etc...Really, if we all had that way of thinking than no one would show budgies... And I thought we were all adults here... Now I'm off to play with my lil boy because he doesn't think like some adults do...Just my thoughts on everything... :happy-dancing:

Well said LittleBudgie2005 and I would of being the same

 

Thank you Splat... Glad others thinks their age too...

 

What makes breeding show budgies even better, is working your way from the bottom to the top with what you have... And like Genericblue said otherwise your just a babsitter... So do people like that real deserve to call themselves a top show breeder...

 

A top show breeder to me, is someone who has work hard to get where they are today or where they got to and made a differences in what the hobby is today for us all...! Otherwise this hobby is no better than the rest...!

 

I my kids will be brought up the same way I have and I hope they continue to think and improve the way of this hobby for all... Pet types and show breeders... Even that backyard breeder... I'm glad I'm one of them...! :laughter:

[nubbly5 0]

Well....the cock didnt come from me then. I dont have any of your birds left here, as I passed them on. Gifted and $'s dont go well together. One way of trying to say someone got a bargain I guess. But as I passed them all along and didnt end up using them I wioll never know what kind of " gift" they were :laughter:

Thankfully you have reached the level this year where you do not need to rely on others' generosity. :rofl:

Of course it occurred to me that you just wanted to on-sell those birds, after the fact unfortunately other wise I would have asked for $30, just like the Pet Shop. :happy-dancing:

 

We live and learn .... and in the meantime Live and Let Live!

 

 

Hey Renee if you chose to sell for $10 and Kaz chose to sell for $30, why are YOU shirty about it? And why then does everyone else who might (through no fault of their own) end up with one of your birds and want some details have to pay for your bad temper? In fact like LittleBudgie said, thankfully most breeders out there are a fair bit more forgiving and willing to give details of their birds no matter how they ended up where!

[**KAZ** 0]

Of course it occurred to me that you just wanted to on-sell those birds, after the fact unfortunately other wise I would have asked for $30, just like the Pet Shop. :happy-dancing:

 

We live and learn .... and in the meantime Live and Let Live! :laughter:

I did not buy those birds off you to onsell Renee. I dont do things like that. I had them long enough to see their potential or not and as they didnt cut the mustard ( and you are aware of that as I told you they didnt turn out well ) I GAVE them away. Do not assume anything...you will, in all likelihood be wrong when assuming what people do or dont do.

 

 

 

 

BACK ON TOPIC

 

 

When we all start out we check out all the petshops first and we buy what we think are " show birds" ....in doing so we often end up with more rubbish or birds with health issues we hadnt counted on. Then we usually join a club and see things differently.

Someone once told me that we will change our aviary of birds three times before we begin to stick with and breed with what we have..........( Thanks Rob D ) ....he was right.

Rob D was also the breeder of one of my purchased petshop culls and once I tracked him down was only too happy to not only give me the breeding history but became a mentor and helped me anyway he could. There have been some very good mentors along the way........wonderful helpful people.

There is much said these days about bringing new blood into our hobby and keeping new and young members.

How we treat an inquiring budgie purchaser today is the potential show breeding member of the future.

Might pay to be a little nicer to people and not so hard nosed.

 

 

 

 

PS Amy S ....I hope you enjoy your new birds...a " gift" from me but no $$$'s exchanged hands. :rofl:

Edited January 28, 2010 by KAZ

[Dave_McMinn 0]

Wow Renee, I just read this from start to finish, and it is shame the way you have presented yourself. I know that you have been nice to me, and you gifted me a young hen once, who unfortunately did nto make it, but that is neither here nor there.

 

I am someone who has only been in a club for a little over a year, and I have found that some people are not very helpful. It is a shame that you have decided to join this group.

 

Nubbly once did me a very good deal and sold me 7 clearwings and a split clearwing boy, all for a very good price. I realised that there was too much work for a novice like myself in breeding clearwings, so I onsold them...to you actually. I provided you with all the info. I am sure if you wanted other info, Nubbly would provide it. I did not consult Nubbly about selling them, I did not think I had to. She said she was suprised to see you had them. I raise this as I do not see this as being that different from what you are saying about someone buying your bird in SA. If I sold my clearwings to a pet shop and somone bought them, should Nubbly be insulted?

 

I think you have a bee in your bonnet, unnecessarily over a bird and a person, and I think you are using it to vent. Do not take you anger out on the new people who are getting into this hobby. New, inexperienced people need all the help they can get.

[splat 0]

Well I thought the hobby was all about trying to breed the best and helping each other out when possible, so what if you pass on a good bird. A top breeder told me to keep my birds until they are like 18 months old but of course I don't because I don't have the room and all he said to me can you live with it and my answer was yes, could luck to the person who may turn out with a good bird.

 

But I am trying to keep them longer now.

Edited January 28, 2010 by splat

[**KAZ** 0]

If a small minority of breeders do not want the follow up inquiries from their cull sales they should cut the rings off. End of story. :happy-dancing:

Edited January 28, 2010 by KAZ

[renee 0]

Wow Renee, I just read this from start to finish, and it is shame the way you have presented yourself. I know that you have been nice to me, and you gifted me a young hen once, who unfortunately did nto make it, but that is neither here nor there.

 

I think you have a bee in your bonnet, unnecessarily over a bird and a person, and I think you are using it to vent. Do not take you anger out on the new people who are getting into this hobby. New, inexperienced people need all the help they can get.

Dave, as you well know I am simply putting forward how I feel on this topic right now. :happy-dancing:

 

I am quite confident that any person that has had anything to do with me and my budgies will say how helpful I am and how on many occasion I have bent over backwards to help. :laughter:

[splat 0]

I am sure you are Renee but it was this adittude here that started this off, well with me anyway.

 

Life is not fair ... this is another example of its injustices

 

And for any smart-asses out there who think you can pick up some good "variety" culls from my Pet Shop - Beware! You will get a horrid surprise when you try to breed them

[renee 0]

Of course it occurred to me that you just wanted to on-sell those birds, after the fact unfortunately other wise I would have asked for $30, just like the Pet Shop. :laughter: We live and learn .... and in the meantime Live and Let Live!

I did not buy those birds off you to onsell Renee. I dont do things like that. I had them long enough to see their potential or not and as they didnt cut the mustard ( and you are aware of that as I told you they didnt turn out well ) I GAVE them away. Do not assume anything...you will, in all likelihood be wrong when assuming what people do or dont do.

Of course they didn't cut mustard ~ they were slated for the Pet Shop as I told you at the time! In fact I was privately horrified you wanted them at all.

 

I only hope that the people you gave them to were not aspiring Show budgie breeders and under no illusions as to their quality.

I am sure you are Renee but it was this adittude here that started this off, well with me anyway.Life is not fair ... this is another example of its injustices And for any smart-asses out there who think you can pick up some good "variety" culls from my Pet Shop - Beware! You will get a horrid surprise when you try to breed them

:happy-dancing:

Indeed, why bother with calling a spade a spade when you can use an automated shoveler. :rofl:

Edited January 28, 2010 by renee

[**KAZ** 0]

Of course it occurred to me that you just wanted to on-sell those birds, after the fact unfortunately other wise I would have asked for $30, just like the Pet Shop. :laughter: We live and learn .... and in the meantime Live and Let Live!

I did not buy those birds off you to onsell Renee. I dont do things like that. I had them long enough to see their potential or not and as they didnt cut the mustard ( and you are aware of that as I told you they didnt turn out well ) I GAVE them away. Do not assume anything...you will, in all likelihood be wrong when assuming what people do or dont do.

Of course they didn't cut mustard ~ they were slated for the Pet Shop as I told you at the time! In fact I was privately horrified you wanted them at all. I only hope that the people you gave them to were not aspiring Show budgie breeders and under no illusions as to their quality. :rofl:

I am just gonna go away shaking my head.......I have answers but for the life of me........its just not worth the aggravation to respond anymore :happy-dancing:

 

 

 

 

A phrase comes to mind from the bible

 

"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it." Hebrews 13:2

 

To my mind it means be good to all fellow men, do all you can, help all you can for they may be angels ( good people ) in disguise, someone of consequence, someone of worth. Treat everyone you meet like a treasure unless you are given good reason not to.....and even then....

 

If you adopt this attitude in all walks of life where you can, it will be paid back to you a hundrefold in ways you least expect.

So to take a moment...just a moment to reach for information at your fingertips, regardless of how much someone paid for a bird or where they got it.........what does it take out of us ?

 

Does it rob is of self worth ?

 

does it rob us of the birds real value ?

do we fear them utilising the bird in a better way and beating us on the bench ?

 

A moment taken to assist makes a new budgie owner happier about their purchase, pleased with a positive response, and perhaps thinking they may take this budgie interest a little further.

 

These are the budgie show breeders of the future.

 

Giving them short shift or a flea in the ear for daring to ask robs a person of their reputation, esteem and value in another persons eyes.

Edited January 28, 2010 by KAZ

[splat 0]

I like that piece Kaz and very true and my saying or what my parents taught me and I taught my boys is treat people the way you would like to be treated and the world will be a great place.

 

Yes me too Kaz so over it.

It's like talking to a brick wall :happy-dancing:

I hope one day Renee you will change your mind about helping people out with their birds no matter where they buy them.

Edited January 28, 2010 by splat

[renee 0]

And as you well know I do my very best to do that !!!!

 

But at some point I feel compelled to draw a line in the sand and say my boundless generosity does know some boundaries. :happy-dancing:

[splat 0]

Renee just for curiosty, if you bought some of my birds and you were interested a little while ago, would you ask for or expect the birds pedigrees.?

[pebblz72 0]

I would just like to add that, thank god, when I bought my first budgie from the local pet shop, purely because I thought she was beautiful, I tracked down her breeder, with help from Kaz, and was not only welcomed with open arms but taken "under wing" of this breeder.

I think that had I been answered with a "nick off" rather than a big welcome, I probably wouldn't have even considered getting more birds.

Yes, a lot of my birds are from pet shops. Do I care? NO. To me they are all beautiful, whether show or pet type.

I am grateful to the breeder of my first bird for all the back ground on not only her but other birds of his I have ended up with over the past year.

Not once has he asked where I got the bird, just that he felt proud that someone had actually bothered to take the time to find out something about them.

[renee 0]

Renee just for curiosty, if you bought some of my birds and you were interested a little while ago, would you ask for or expect the birds pedigrees.?

Nope. I have rarely followed up on that. Perhaps if I was planning on on-selling and I just wanted to confirm my hunch. :laughter: I am a visual breeder of families. I trust my gut before anything anyone says, I have learnt that from the best. :happy-dancing:

[splat 0]

:question:

[**KAZ** 0]

Renee just for curiosty, if you bought some of my birds and you were interested a little while ago, would you ask for or expect the birds pedigrees.?

Nope. I have rarely followed up on that. Perhaps if I was planning on on-selling and I just wanted to confirm my hunch. I am a visual breeder of families. I trust my gut before anything anyone says, I have learnt that from the best. :question:

 

That doesnt make sense. Even the biggest and best show breeders wouldnt buy a visual bird without also getting background.

And why would you seek out background based on hunches ....only if you are onselling a bird ?

[Heathrow 0]

Renee just for curiosty, if you bought some of my birds and you were interested a little while ago, would you ask for or expect the birds pedigrees.?

Nope. I have rarely followed up on that. Perhaps if I was planning on on-selling and I just wanted to confirm my hunch. I am a visual breeder of families. I trust my gut before anything anyone says, I have learnt that from the best. :question:

 

 

Renee - If you arnt interested in the background of birds, how do you pair up??

[renee 0]

Renee just for curiosty, if you bought some of my birds and you were interested a little while ago, would you ask for or expect the birds pedigrees.?

Nope. I have rarely followed up on that. Perhaps if I was planning on on-selling and I just wanted to confirm my hunch. I am a visual breeder of families. I trust my gut before anything anyone says, I have learnt that from the best.

That doesnt make sense. Even the biggest and best show breeders wouldnt buy a visual bird without also getting background. And why would you seek out background based on hunches ....only if you are onselling a bird ?

Well I really don't care if it makes sense to anybody but myself, so far (touch wood) it is working for me. Mostly I buy direct from the breeder and I say, "I like that bird" and they either say "Yes, you can have it for $xxx or No".

 

If the bird in question has features I aim to put into one of my specialist varieties I will ask if it is carrying anything.

 

But mainly pre 2009 I was aiming for the bird not the variety so I wasn't too fussed. Probably if I had asked more questions back then I wouldn't have bred so many bloomin Cinnie Greens this year - but by the same token I am very happy with the look of those birds which is why there are so many of them left in my aviary.

 

Besides I have come to terms with the uncertainty of the sex linked genes and how fricken impossible prior to actual breeding to know whether your cock is split or not.... :question:

 

As for hunches, that is in reference to these 'closely related to Champion' write ups you get on auction catalogues .... with time I have reaslised the significant difference there is between a 'nest sibling' to 'a half sibling' to a 'member of an award winning family' .... genes are funny things and sometimes it really is a case of pot luck. Of course you soon get the picture when you breed.

Renee - If you arnt interested in the background of birds, how do you pair up??

 

I didn't mean it like that. I buy from breeders who buy from the same breeders. It really isn't that hard in this State to do so, there are a handful of really top breeders and they swap birds amongst themselves any way so basically, so long as you are discerning, you get to recognise 'so and so's bird'. Each stud has a "look". I pair for complimentary features and relatedness, ie. family.

 

I would like to add that we are extremely lucky in this State with the gorgeous quality of birds available and I have never had the inclination to look elsewhere.

Edited January 28, 2010 by renee

[**KAZ** 0]

Message to any budgie enthusiasts out there that are now afraid to ask about the leg ring info on the bird they just bought at the pet store.................

 

Most of us will help you out. Dont judge all people by one persons attitude :question:

[LittleBudgie2005 0]

Here here Kaz... Agreed... :question:

[Dave_McMinn 0]

Kaz, I just want to say thank you for the bible quote.

[renee 0]

I appreciate that many of you may be wondering exactly how my pairing and purchasing decisions are made. :question:

 

So I will give you an example, photos to follow tomorrow

 

I am a great fan of Jeff Lloyds' Blue series birds. They have a look about them that I find appealing. In my experience those here in the West who do buy his for example, "amazing Violet" at auction often put that bird to their best birds. The same goes for Gearing Inos, Armstrong Rec Pieds or Spangles/DF Spangles, Manno Rec Pieds,etc. So while I have saved my pennies and tried to buy one or two of the elite specialist birds I have also tried to get their descendants from other breeders and then put them together. It has taken me a while, but this past year I was lucky to get a few missing pieces and as a result I am very happy with the results.

 

I have also mentioned elsewhere that I have finally reached the stage where I have bred a bird worthy in my eyes to be a Foundation bird. It doesn't happen overnight, in fact it has taken me a few years and even if I am discerning I know that quite a few of my birds are dropping their wings and I need to address that next year.

[splat 0]

"I would like to add that we are extremely lucky in this State with the gorgeous quality of birds available and I have never had the inclination to look elsewhere"

 

Actually Renee I don't mean be a stick in the mud but been a small state and ONLY having a few top breeders and I would say that most birds are probably related somehow that bringing a new blood (a bird or a few) in from another state is a good move if you feel you need new blood put into your breeding program.

Like Nubbly said on another topic that dilute for example are hard to come by and someone else said so are good blue birds if I remember rightly.

Edited January 28, 2010 by splat

[renee 0]

"I would like to add that we are extremely lucky in this State with the gorgeous quality of birds available and I have never had the inclination to look elsewhere"

 

Actually Renee I don't mean be a stick in the mud but been a small state and ONLY having a few top breeders and I would say that most birds are probably related somehow that bringing a new blood (a bird or a few) in from another state is a good move if you feel you need new blood put into your breeding program.

:question: Precisely, the top breeders do that.

Like Nubbly said on another topic that dilute for example are hard to come by and someone else said so are good blue birds if I remember rightly.

And I am very fortunate to have bred my own Dilutes and a lovely Blue boy. Plus I have a couple ready to breed in next year.

Photos to come!