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robyn

Puzzle.........cere Colour Problem

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Hi, I have a bit of a puzzle with this bird.

 

I bought it in May 09 thought it was a Cock bird. picture 1. (Colours a bit different in this picture) I didn't try to breed this bird this season.

 

cerewhenbought.jpg

 

 

 

I looked at this bird yesterday and it's Cere has changed. picture 2.

 

cerenow.jpg

 

It is being "chatted up" by this violet Cock only bred this season(Aug/Sept.) picture 3

 

yfspangleandvcock.jpg

 

Can anyone say which sex the Spangle is?Because I can't decide.

I didn't try breeding this bird and it didn't really show any interest one way or the other in Aviary. But Cere was always blue until now.

Edited by KAZ

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Robyn it definitely looks like a cock bird. Sometimes (especially in older birds) males ceres go brown like this. People have always told me that this is indicative of hormone problems or testicular cancer. I have also been told that these birds are also infertile but I have no personal experience so can't give guideance on that one.

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Robyn it definitely looks like a cock bird. Sometimes (especially in older birds) males ceres go brown like this. People have always told me that this is indicative of hormone problems or testicular cancer. I have also been told that these birds are also infertile but I have no personal experience so can't give guideance on that one.

Thanks Nubbly5, I've just checked and it's rung 2008 so not an old bird. Hope other things are incorrect for this bird, I was going to try him this next season, I guess time will tell. :P

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I heard a cock cere changing to a brwon colour was liver problems... hmmm

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Hi Robyn , I have experimented with this condition , it is definately a hormone inbalance . Whether you can rectify it or not will only take time , he is young so may be possible .

I used Aqueious Iodine , Put a drop on his tail where his preen gland is , also add it to his water 3 drops to 1L or provide iodine blocks so he can access them.

The bird I fixed was an older bird , even thought his cere coloured to a bright blue he was infertile .

Goodluck , You can only try . Nice Bird.

Edited by KAZ

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Robyn , I have experimented with this condition , it is definately a hormone inbalance . Whether you can rectify it or not will only take time , he is young so may be possible .I used Aqueious Iodine , Put a drop on his tail where his preen gland is , also add it to his water 3 drops to 1L or provide iodine blocks so he can access them. The bird I fixed was an older bird , even thought his cere coloured to a bright blue he was infertile .Goodluck , You can only try . Nice Bird.
Thank's for your information Matt, I have iodine bells in aviary but can't tell which birds are actually using it. Could you add the iodine to all aviary water? Would it harm other birds without this problem or only treat spangle? Did you mean your bird was still infertile after treatment? If it's hormone's is it likely to effect him in other health ways or just fertility. Even if I can't breed from him he's still a nice bird and don't want to lose him. Thank's again for your help.
I heard a cock cere changing to a brwon colour was liver problems... hmmm
Thank's for reply, Matt has advised hormone's so hopfully it's not liver. He's looking good and healthy just his cere changing colour. :)
I agree with Nubbly..............cock bird with "issues"
Thank's Kaz, opinions seem to be hormonal probs. Just hope this doesn't lead to other health issues. Just infertility maybe ......drat, darn etc. wanted to pair him this next season. Edited by KAZ

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I tried to breed the cock when he coloured up but I had infertile eggs , Basically he then just saw his days out in the aviary, He did develop cysts around the tail , I just kept cleaning him up .

You can add iodine to the water in the aviary or you can find a multi vitamin with iodine it in it , whatever your preference.

Iodine cannot be stored in the body of a bird , that is why they need small traces for normal body function . Iodine bells help but as you said some may not eat it.

Goodluck with him.

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I tried to breed the cock when he coloured up but I had infertile eggs , Basically he then just saw his days out in the aviary, He did develop cysts around the tail , I just kept cleaning him up .

You can add iodine to the water in the aviary or you can find a multi vitamin with iodine it in it , whatever your preference.

Iodine cannot be stored in the body of a bird , that is why they need small traces for normal body function . Iodine bells help but as you said some may not eat it.

Goodluck with him.

 

Thank's for your quick reply Matt, I'll try the iodine in their water to be sure they are all getting it and leave the bells for breeding cages later. Even if he doesn't fill eggs as long as he doesn't have anything he can pass to other birds was the main worry. :thankyou:

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I tried to breed the cock when he coloured up but I had infertile eggs , Basically he then just saw his days out in the aviary, He did develop cysts around the tail , I just kept cleaning him up .

You can add iodine to the water in the aviary or you can find a multi vitamin with iodine it in it , whatever your preference.

Iodine cannot be stored in the body of a bird , that is why they need small traces for normal body function . Iodine bells help but as you said some may not eat it.

Goodluck with him.

 

Thank's for your quick reply Matt, I'll try the iodine in their water to be sure they are all getting it and leave the bells for breeding cages later. Even if he doesn't fill eggs as long as he doesn't have anything he can pass to other birds was the main worry. :lol:

I thought I'd add another picture and see if it's just wishful thinking or is there an improvement in this birds cere. I've had him on the Iodine as suggested by Matt, he has been back in aviary as he doesn't seem to have any probs. aside from the changing cere.

 

cere8-2-2010.jpg Taken 8-2-2010

 

feb132010.jpg Taken 13-2-2010

 

What does anyone think! It's only a few days since I thought it was changing again. :rolleyes: I've added the Iodine to all aviary water instead of relying on Iodine bells.

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Yep, looking better!

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Looking better :D

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:D Thank's Kaz and Ratsy, and Matt for the iodine hint. Just remains to be seen if he improves enough to be fertile as well.

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Hope you may breed him sometime in the future.

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Thank's Ratsy, checked again to-day and I think there could be even more improvement. Fingers crossed.

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Can you post another picture?

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Can you post another picture?

 

Taken to-day.

16-2-20102.jpg

 

 

16-2-2010.jpg

 

What do you think?

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Yes....definitely way better today :D

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Wow! He has come a long way!

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Yes....definitely way better today :)
Thank's Kaz, I thought so, I took that one in aviary but blind was down I can't believe how quick it's changing back. :D He keeps improving.
Wow! He has come a long way!
Thanks Ratsy, You wouldn't think a bit of Iodine was that important. If it wasn't for Matt's input I would not have tried it. This is another plus for this Forum!!

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Yep. The forum has loads of info and members trying to help!

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Dietary iodine for budgerigars

 

Where do I start?

 

Iodine is an important part of any bird's diet and a deficiency in this vital nutrient can lead to serious health problems.

 

Unfortunately budgerigars are much more susceptible to iodine deficiency than most other aviary birds and need higher levels to keep them in peak condition.

 

Iodine is needed for normal functioning of the thyroid gland. Hormones produced by the thyroid are vital in controlling the metabolism of the body and help regulate many functions in the body including growth, digestion, heart rate, body temperature, the nervous system and the reproductive system.

Symptoms of iodine deficiency . . .

 

Iodine deficiency leads to a decreased production of thyroid hormone and the body responds by increasing the release of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH). This in turn causes enlargement of the thyroid gland.

 

The main sign of iodine deficiency in budgerigars is difficulty in breathing, caused by pressure of the oversized thyroid on the trachea (windpipe). The affected bird typically develops a "clicking" noise or audible whistling or squeak as it breathes. If left untreated it can lead to death by suffocation.

 

In domestic poultry, iodine deficiency in breeding hens results in reduced egg iodine levels, reduced egg production, decreased hatchability, prolonged hatching time, and thyroid enlargement in the embryos.

 

Since a deficiency of iodine will decrease breeding performance, some budgerigar breeders use iodine supplements to enhance the metabolism of budgerigars and stimulate the birds to breed, to accelerate the moult of young birds and to ensure birds are at their peak for showing.

 

Prevalence of iodine deficiency . . .

 

Iodine deficiency tends to be a regional problem as natural exposure to iodine is greater in coastal areas. Although wild budgerigars predominantly inhabit inland areas of Australia (and eat a diet based on seeds from a wide variety of species of ground plants) they are thought to balance their diet by foraging in dirt and river edges in search of minerals and trace elements.

 

Pet budgerigars are thought to be at increased risk of iodine deficiency due to their natural reluctance to supplement their diets with additional foodstuffs, particularly when fed on seed-based diets. The iodine content of the various seeds fed to budgerigars varies with the climate and location where they are grown. Australian birdseeds tend to be naturally low in iodine, although marked regional variations occur due to differing soil types and salt deposits.

 

Until the 1960s, symptoms of iodine deficiency were commonly seen in domesticated budgerigars fed on all-seed diets. The WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition (WCPN) was responsible for establishing the incidence of iodine deficiency in budgerigars, where researchers found that 85 percent of budgerigars suffered from thyroid disease and 24 percent died as a result.

 

In light of the fact that seed-based diets may be deficient not only in iodine, but in a number of other vital nutrients, responsible birdseed companies supplement their seed mixes to increase the levels of certain minerals and vitamins. For example GOLDEN COB Budgerigar diets are supplemented with a number of essential vitamins and minerals, including iodine.

 

Treating iodine deficiency

 

Treatment for iodine deficiency should only be carried out on the advice of your veterinarian. The usual program consists of a drop of iodine put into the drinking water daily for two weeks, then once a week thereafter. This should continue for at least eight weeks.

 

Iodine toxicity . . .

 

Excess iodine can be just as harmful as a deficiency and interferes with normal thyroid gland function - particularly in young birds.

 

Iodine toxicity is rare in birds and animals since it requires a regular elevated intake of iodine and is most likely to occur in an aviary through misuse of disinfectants containing iodine or over-zealous use of iodine supplements.

 

The safe upper limit for iodine in poultry food has been set at 10mg/kg by EU legislation. The concentration of iodine in the TRILL budgerigar formulation exceeds the minimum requirements established by the WCPN and is below the EU safe upper limit for poultry.

 

Iodine toxicity has not been well defined in caged birds, but has been observed in poultry fed a ration with an iodine content of 625mg/kg. Broiler chickens showed signs of iodine toxicity, including poor growth and reduced food intake, when fed a diet containing 900 or 1,200mg/kg iodine for nine to 13 days. Excess iodine in grower diets can prevent sexual maturation in male and female fowl.

 

In breeding poultry, fertility of female breeders is unaffected by high iodine intake, but hatching of fertile eggs is reduced, hatching time is extended and embryonic mortality and dead-in-shell proportions are increased.

 

In contrast, male fertility is decreased because of an increased incidence of dead spermatozoa, although hatchability of eggs from normally fed hens is unaffected. All reproductive variables, together with feed intake and body weight, have been shown to return to normal within seven days of feeding a diet with normal iodine levels.

Edited by KAZ

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Well, you learn knew things every day!

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He is looking much better :D

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Dietary iodine for budgerigarsWhere do I start?Iodine is an important part of any bird's diet and a deficiency in this vital nutrient can lead to serious health problems.Unfortunately budgerigars are much more susceptible to iodine deficiency than most other aviary birds and need higher levels to keep them in peak condition.Iodine is needed for normal functioning of the thyroid gland. Hormones produced by the thyroid are vital in controlling the metabolism of the body and help regulate many functions in the body including growth, digestion, heart rate, body temperature, the nervous system and the reproductive system.Symptoms of iodine deficiency . . .Iodine deficiency leads to a decreased production of thyroid hormone and the body responds by increasing the release of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH). This in turn causes enlargement of the thyroid gland.The main sign of iodine deficiency in budgerigars is difficulty in breathing, caused by pressure of the oversized thyroid on the trachea (windpipe). The affected bird typically develops a "clicking" noise or audible whistling or squeak as it breathes. If left untreated it can lead to death by suffocation.In domestic poultry, iodine deficiency in breeding hens results in reduced egg iodine levels, reduced egg production, decreased hatchability, prolonged hatching time, and thyroid enlargement in the embryos.Since a deficiency of iodine will decrease breeding performance, some budgerigar breeders use iodine supplements to enhance the metabolism of budgerigars and stimulate the birds to breed, to accelerate the moult of young birds and to ensure birds are at their peak for showing.Prevalence of iodine deficiency . . .Iodine deficiency tends to be a regional problem as natural exposure to iodine is greater in coastal areas. Although wild budgerigars predominantly inhabit inland areas of Australia (and eat a diet based on seeds from a wide variety of species of ground plants) they are thought to balance their diet by foraging in dirt and river edges in search of minerals and trace elements.Pet budgerigars are thought to be at increased risk of iodine deficiency due to their natural reluctance to supplement their diets with additional foodstuffs, particularly when fed on seed-based diets. The iodine content of the various seeds fed to budgerigars varies with the climate and location where they are grown. Australian birdseeds tend to be naturally low in iodine, although marked regional variations occur due to differing soil types and salt deposits.Until the 1960s, symptoms of iodine deficiency were commonly seen in domesticated budgerigars fed on all-seed diets. The WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition (WCPN) was responsible for establishing the incidence of iodine deficiency in budgerigars, where researchers found that 85 percent of budgerigars suffered from thyroid disease and 24 percent died as a result.In light of the fact that seed-based diets may be deficient not only in iodine, but in a number of other vital nutrients, responsible birdseed companies supplement their seed mixes to increase the levels of certain minerals and vitamins. For example GOLDEN COB Budgerigar diets are supplemented with a number of essential vitamins and minerals, including iodine.Treating iodine deficiencyTreatment for iodine deficiency should only be carried out on the advice of your veterinarian. The usual program consists of a drop of iodine put into the drinking water daily for two weeks, then once a week thereafter. This should continue for at least eight weeks.Iodine toxicity . . .Excess iodine can be just as harmful as a deficiency and interferes with normal thyroid gland function - particularly in young birds.Iodine toxicity is rare in birds and animals since it requires a regular elevated intake of iodine and is most likely to occur in an aviary through misuse of disinfectants containing iodine or over-zealous use of iodine supplements.The safe upper limit for iodine in poultry food has been set at 10mg/kg by EU legislation. The concentration of iodine in the TRILL budgerigar formulation exceeds the minimum requirements established by the WCPN and is below the EU safe upper limit for poultry.Iodine toxicity has not been well defined in caged birds, but has been observed in poultry fed a ration with an iodine content of 625mg/kg. Broiler chickens showed signs of iodine toxicity, including poor growth and reduced food intake, when fed a diet containing 900 or 1,200mg/kg iodine for nine to 13 days. Excess iodine in grower diets can prevent sexual maturation in male and female fowl.In breeding poultry, fertility of female breeders is unaffected by high iodine intake, but hatching of fertile eggs is reduced, hatching time is extended and embryonic mortality and dead-in-shell proportions are increased.In contrast, male fertility is decreased because of an increased incidence of dead spermatozoa, although hatchability of eggs from normally fed hens is unaffected. All reproductive variables, together with feed intake and body weight, have been shown to return to normal within seven days of feeding a diet with normal iodine levels.
Thank's Kaz, I had found a similar article, although it's not cut and dried for budgies. The seed I buy in bulk doesn't state what is in it. I had Iodine blocks in aviary, but you can't tell which birds injest it, so until we have a problem we fly by the seat of our pants, so to speak. Because Matt had similar problem, his advice let me try to rectify the problem. I have now added 2 drops a litre into my water bottles of the aqueous iodine and removed iodine blocks. Hopefully this will stop any further problems. I will add iodine bells to breeding cages and leave it up to the birds.
He is looking much better :huh:
Thank's 'birdluv' remains to be seen if he is fertile. :D It's all a good learning curve though. :o

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Advice I have had is 7 drops aqueous iodine per litre if that helps. :D

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