Paligomy

[clearwing 0]

It is the time of year when I start evaluating last years chicks, it has become obvious [ as I'm sure it always has] the best chicks came from the best birds. Therefore I intend to change my breeding methods this year. Taking a leaf out of the racing or stud cattle industry, I'm going to use only my best six cock birds, they will be mated to the best 18 hens, with each hen having two rounds. Therefore each of my best cocks will have six rounds increasing the number of chicks they produce.

Then my only problem is keeping all the other cocks I need to show, as I like to support both Diploma shows and club events, I will have to fly quite a few birds in the avairy which will never be used to breed. Anyway these are my thoughts for the upcoming season, I'll start breeding in March. I'd love to hear yours. Clearwing

[splat 0]

Yes Clearwing I thinking seriously of doing the same thing. As you know my spangle line is the strongest so I am focusing on them this year.

[shannon bird breeder 0]

that is a good idea clearwing i have found that my best babys came from my best birds

[Heathrow 0]

I have used that in the past Geoff, using only the very best cock birds (both genetically and visually) and also using feeder pairs for to help the hens. Its given me a lot of options for this current breeding season, half brothers to half sisters pairing, plenty of cousins to pair together.

 

You are right - the best birds each year do come from the best birds. I dont know why people dont repair the best producing birds more often from year to year. If they are producing really good birds.

[splat 0]

So true Heathrow.

That's my plan this year and I did do that last year with some great results, so will focus more on them this year too.

[clearwing 0]

I have also done it previously, but my intention is to continue doing so year after year, therefore the quality of those six stock cock birds must surely increase. Also the show team would be available for more shows as they will not necessarily be part of the breeding team.

I also intent to leave the hens longer before breeding with them, hens born in March/April will not be bred with till the following Sept, making them 17 or 18 months old. Clearwing

[renee 0]

I know of a few Open breeders over here in the West that do just that.

 

This year (2010) I will be selecting my strongest cock bird per variety and doing that too, I have reached the stage finally where I pretty much have bred or acquired a solid Foundation bird and it is time to consolidate the stud.

 

Will you be using the Bink's method of putting 1 cock bird to several hens? Or will you be just putting him to 1 hen and fostering the eggs and then moving him onto another hen?

[clearwing 0]

I have found in the past the best way is to leave the cock with the first hen till she lays her fifth egg, then move the cock to the next hen. If the first hen lays 2/3 more eggs they are usually fertile. I will only have a few foster pairs so each hen will have to raise some chicks alone ie: 3 or 4. Clearwing

[renee 0]

I have found in the past the best way is to leave the cock with the first hen till she lays her fifth egg, then move the cock to the next hen. If the first hen lays 2/3 more eggs they are usually fertile. I will only have a few foster pairs so each hen will have to raise some chicks alone ie: 3 or 4. Clearwing

Agreed! I tried the Bink's method in 2008 but it never really worked for me.

I have also done it previously, but my intention is to continue doing so year after year, therefore the quality of those six stock cock birds must surely increase. Also the show team would be available for more shows as they will not necessarily be part of the breeding team.I also intent to leave the hens longer before breeding with them, hens born in March/April will not be bred with till the following Sept, making them 17 or 18 months old. Clearwing

Why the delay Clearwing? Are you finding your hens are taking longer to mature physically?Last year I discovered the hard way that many of my hens just weren't "ready" emotionally at 10-12 months and had issues with the newly hatched chicks- not feeding and going scatty, etc.

Edited January 21, 2010 by renee

[Heathrow 0]

I have also done it previously, but my intention is to continue doing so year after year, therefore the quality of those six stock cock birds must surely increase. Also the show team would be available for more shows as they will not necessarily be part of the breeding team.

I also intent to leave the hens longer before breeding with them, hens born in March/April will not be bred with till the following Sept, making them 17 or 18 months old. Clearwing

 

 

I'm going the other way - good breeding hens dont live long enough to not have them in the breeding room. I am about to start some breeding at 9 months. Its very rare for good hens to give you more than 3 seasons worth of chicks.

 

First season they are learning the ropes of breeding, still expect some good results. Second season is make or break, this is the most productive season in terms of quality and quantity. Third season they start to decline, still expect some good results though. Fourth year hens are more trouble than they are worth and are cage and cock wasters.

[clearwing 0]

Ye, that was my opinion also, but I have recently seen some things to challenge my view. Are stock hens possibly burnt out early, because we start them too young and they fail to fully mature?

[renee 0]

I'm going the other way - good breeding hens dont live long enough to not have them in the breeding room. I am about to start some breeding at 9 months. Its very rare for good hens to give you more than 3 seasons worth of chicks.

I would have thought that you'd be asking for trouble by expecting them to raise 4 rounds or more.

First season they are learning the ropes of breeding, still expect some good results. Second season is make or break, this is the most productive season in terms of quality and quantity. Third season they start to decline, still expect some good results though. Fourth year hens are more trouble than they are worth and are cage and cock wasters.

Yes, I agree. My 'maidens' tend to give me grief with their first round - I was thinking maybe I had to let them wait to 'mature'.

 

You wouldn't keep you 4th year hens as fosters?

[Heathrow 0]

I'm going the other way - good breeding hens dont live long enough to not have them in the breeding room. I am about to start some breeding at 9 months. Its very rare for good hens to give you more than 3 seasons worth of chicks.

I would have thought that you'd be asking for trouble by expecting them to raise 4 rounds or more.

First season they are learning the ropes of breeding, still expect some good results. Second season is make or break, this is the most productive season in terms of quality and quantity. Third season they start to decline, still expect some good results though. Fourth year hens are more trouble than they are worth and are cage and cock wasters.

Yes, I agree. My 'maidens' tend to give me grief with their first round - I was thinking maybe I had to let them wait to 'mature'.

 

You wouldn't keep you 4th year hens as fosters?

 

 

I never said i take 4 rounds from a pair in a season

[renee 0]

I'm going the other way - good breeding hens dont live long enough to not have them in the breeding room. I am about to start some breeding at 9 months. Its very rare for good hens to give you more than 3 seasons worth of chicks.

I would have thought that you'd be asking for trouble by expecting them to raise 4 rounds or more.

First season they are learning the ropes of breeding, still expect some good results. Second season is make or break, this is the most productive season in terms of quality and quantity. Third season they start to decline, still expect some good results though. Fourth year hens are more trouble than they are worth and are cage and cock wasters.

Yes, I agree. My 'maidens' tend to give me grief with their first round - I was thinking maybe I had to let them wait to 'mature'.

 

You wouldn't keep you 4th year hens as fosters?

I never said i take 4 rounds from a pair in a season

Oh so you didn't. I misread.

[clearwing 0]

I normally keep 33% of the chicks I breed therefore I turn my stock over every three years, so no I wouldn't keep 4 year old hens. I tend to use my minor variety birds as feeders eg. clearwings or greywings.

[Heathrow 0]

I normally keep 33% of the chicks I breed therefore I turn my stock over every three years, so no I wouldn't keep 4 year old hens. I tend to use my minor variety birds as feeders eg. clearwings or greywings.

 

 

If breeders are having to use Old birds - 3 - 4 year old, that says to me that the havent paired correctly. The aim of each pairing should be to improve each year, if breeders are still using older birds, then generally the young birds havn't improved on the parents.

[clearwing 0]

I agree with you Heath, there is no room for being sentimental, when pairing up your birds. I've given away Diploma winners at 4 y.o. because their sons & grandsons were better birds.

[nubbly5 0]

Hey CB, do you use many outcrosses or is your flock very closed?

 

One thing I found early on was if I bought in a really good cock bird and used him over average hens (all I had back then) and he bred youngsters that were maybe not up to the same quality as other cocks in the aviary (mainly due to the hen quality used) that I was tempted to move them on. I took the chance on one of them a few years back and used a lesser son of a great cock bird, paired to a not bad hen and they bred sensationally.

 

Do you see some merit in the thoughs of using maybe lesser birds from strong studs as a way of improving your own stock?

 

I see the situation differently for a closed stud when family traits are well known and then definitely best to best is really important in my view.

 

Your thoughts?

[clearwing 0]

I have a stud based on 3 very successful line bred studs. But it is very important when you outcross to breed with the best of the young, if not you waisted time and money bringing in the outcross. I only outcross to bring in a feature ie: feather direction or spots, then I pick the best young exhibiting that feature to breed with.

[nubbly5 0]

So if you were concentrating on spot and brought in an outcross with good spot, if he bred youngsters and the best of those had not such great spot and the lesser birds had great spot, would you still breed with just the best assuming that the genetic potential for better spot would still be in those lesser youngsters?

 

Edited due to ........ oops sorry - no punctuation.........

Edited January 21, 2010 by nubbly5

[clearwing 0]

If I am trying to improve spots on my line, I buy the best bird I can afford that has great spots. I mate him to a couple of my better hens then next year sellect young birds with good spots to breed into my line again. Warning...it can be a slow process but well worth it.

[Heathrow 0]

I agree with you Heath, there is no room for being sentimental, when pairing up your birds. I've given away Diploma winners at 4 y.o. because their sons & grandsons were better birds.

 

 

That why i dont get the whole naming of birds thing. Once you name a bird there is an emotional attachment, which cloud's the decision making process.

[renee 0]

I agree with you Heath, there is no room for being sentimental, when pairing up your birds. I've given away Diploma winners at 4 y.o. because their sons & grandsons were better birds.

That why i dont get the whole naming of birds thing. Once you name a bird there is an emotional attachment, which cloud's the decision making process.

Many of us haven't been in the show budgie hobby that long and are still Novices. I see our birds as rather expensive pets. We want to breed better and better birds but there is a lot more than that ... their welfare and comfort comes first. Perhaps with time I will refer only to them by ring number - but I doubt it.

[shannon bird breeder 0]

well i do not name my birds i have got to many to name i can say how i got it from but

 

 

can i ask clearwing how did you fine the best way to improve your clearwings

[clearwing 0]

Shannon bird breeder, if I told you that I'd have to kill you!

No not really, I've bred clearwings for about 35 years, the best ones I've ever bred were from mating clearwing to dilute. Many years ago I got Res. Champion Young Bird at a diploma show with a dark green clearwing bred from a dilute hen.