What Is Your Definition Of A Bird Mill ?

[**KAZ** 0]

well i may be dimer than i sim some times but im not as dim as i sim

:rofl: :rofl:

 

you are a "deep thinker" mate

 

 

 

For any that dont get why I am sharing this with you guys...............

 

I and this forum is about educating where possible. The next person out there who decides to google about bird mill topics will find this here.....it all helps to clear the air or mud as the case may be

Edited January 12, 2010 by KAZ

[anne101 0]

Kaz.....I am sorry if I am not supposed to say this but this thread has made me very angry..

 

This individual is an uneducated imbecile, that has NO IDEA !!!

 

If it were not for you telling me about the pepper I would have lost "skipper" and "JT'....

At least I can admit my knowledge is limited, but I go to a reliable source for the answers....

 

Years and endless hours answering questions...and this is what you get... Please don't let this "person" take that away from us.....

 

Sounds to me this "person" needs a job or something to occupy what little brains he/she has....

 

(P.S...Great post GB....)

Edited January 12, 2010 by anne101

[renee 0]

The person has an agenda.....they slander me as a top contributor with solid good answers and they then go up the ladder and take my position. In doing this they also have been gathering support from others.

Upset...maybe. But cannot believe that people believe this cr*p without real knowledge and act upon one persons say so.

Fine, then fight fire with fire and out them : Name and Shame!

Such brave people as this send nasty emails but block a reply. Anything written "online" in public by me will make me wear the punishment not the sneaky person who has accused me.

So put up and shut up then .... don't mean to be nasty but I can't see what your alternatives are other than the ones I have suggested. :rofl:

Renee, you may have a different way to me and I respect that. However, my way is.....

1. They person has been reported for the abusive email as is my right

2. I cannot do anything in public as it is against rules

 

Not everything is about smacking horns together in a do or die battle.

 

and when you are done "eating crow" you can apologise.........................bird mommy

:rofl:

In a past life I was a knight .... the kind that goes charging into battle at the sniff of a gauntlet downed.

 

Had a break and come back to this topic. Yes, I see your point of view now.

[Amy S 0]

Want an opinion from a newly fledged budgie owner? Too bad you're gonna get it anyway :rofl:

To me a Bird Mill is: a nasty, unclean, smelly, disgusting looking lot of tiny aviaries and/or cages - filled with piles of bird poop, mites, bugs and hundreds of straggly tatty looking birds that have never seen daylight, nor had fresh air and have eggs, new pinkies and young fledglings all in the same cage. Most likely no perches. They may have a newspaper floor if they're lucky, but even that will get feral within a day

 

They have murky water, husks instead of seed and feathers galore from constant mite and disease moult and often lots of dead, dying or sick and diseased birds. These birds will often go unnoticed as the cages are so overcrowded that it wont be until there is an empty cage that the owner will find sad little piles of feathers and bones...

 

To be honest I don't even know if a person of this sort would even know what illness their birds would have and how to treat them.

To me, Kaz, your aviaries are: A hotel resort for budgies. It's clean, tidy, doesn't smell. There are no poops piled up anywhere, nor are there dead birds (or skeletons of), Definitely NO tatty looking diseased or sick birds nor murky water. They are medicated when necessary.They have an abundant amount of fresh seed, broccoli, carrot, beetroot, millet sprays - all sorts of yummy treats - peppermint gum, eucalyptus leaves. I even said to you I'd live in your aviary!!

 

You don't breed a hen 20 times a year - or even 4 times. If you were going to do that, you'd have let Omelette** go for gold and continue to raise clutch after clutch after clutch.

 

** I say Omelette as she is the only one I know of that has wanted to keep raising clutches**

 

You know what is wrong with your ill birds and you treat them, and on the odd occasion you don't what is wrong with them - off to the vet they go!

 

I don't pretend to know much about budgies yet, but I WILL say this forum and its members have been the best source of information I've managed to find! Kaz, you are wise and filled with so much information, I can't believe someone has dared fault you in any way. Besides if you've made a mistake with things - you correct them :rofl:

 

On different note though - even owning two budgies in a cage and they accidently breed would be enough to classify as a bird mill to some people.

[**KAZ** 0]

http://www.petstorecruelty.org/Birdmills.htm

 

 

Most bird mill breeding facilities resemble warehouses. Breeder birds, many of them former pets, are kept in small cages with nothing more than food, water, and a nestbox. They are never handled or given any mental stimulation. Confinement in such conditions leads to neurotic behavior in many breeder birds. Not all breeder birds are compatible with each other. If introductions are not carefully done with acute observation and possible intervention--and they rarely are in bird mills--one or both birds of a prospective breeding pair can be seriously injured or killed.

 

If a pair does successfully breed and a female lays fertile eggs, they are removed from the nestbox and placed in an incubator. Chicks are not allowed any contact with their parents. Assembly line-type tubes are used to put food directly into the baby birds' crops. This tube feeding makes it very hard for a chick to be weaned later on because the chick associates eating with a tube instead of food. Bird mills wean baby birds using a technique called deprivation, or forced, weaning. During deprivation weaning, chicks are refused formula with the assumption that when they get hungry enough they'll eat solid food. Deprivation weaning can result in malnutrition, starvation, and permanent behavior problems.

 

Most bird mills wean chicks to cheap seed-only diets in order to save money. This can cause serious health problems and often makes it difficult for the birds to be converted to a more nutritious diet later on. The birds the mills are unable to wean are often turned over to inexperienced pet shop employees, who in turn sell the fragile creatures to uninformed buyers. These unfortunate birds usually starve to death or die at the hands of misdirected people attempting to handfeed them.

 

Another practice in bird mills is the prophylactic use of antibiotics as a substitute for good sanitation. This can have terrible short-term as well as long-term effects on the birds: broad-spectrum antibiotics destroy the beneficial flora and fauna residing in birds, leaving them even more susceptible. Fragile organs can be damaged and some birds have built up resistance to certain types of antibiotics.

 

The less obvious result of production breeding in bird mills is young parrots that have not been handled or socialized. These chicks often develop serious behavioral problems as they mature and make horrible pets. Across the country bird rescue groups are overflowing with abandoned birds--no doubt most the result of production breeding in bird mills.

[macka 0]

Some of the budgie breeders,would breed from 250

to 400 chicks a season,now would they be classed

Bird Mill breeders.when I was in full swing,I was breeding

150 to 200 chicks a year, I only buy 50 rings a season now.

But I have breed 150 pigeons,this season.

[**KAZ** 0]

Some of the budgie breeders,would breed from 250

to 400 chicks a season,now would they be classed

Bird Mill breeders.when I was in full swing,I was breeding

150 to 200 chicks a year, I only buy 50 rings a season now.

But I have breed 150 pigeons,this season.

You breed pigeons too Macka ?

[maesie 0]

What is happening to you Kaz is exactly why I never joined up to places like Yahoo answers. Let me see if I can put it nicely... this could be hard.

 

Yahoo answers and alike are 99% made up by immature minds who have nothing better to do with their time than to post bullshit answers, give bad reviews to those who actually have half a brain and are trying to educate, and cause trouble by shooting their mouth off. The things I have read on there, most can not even be true... so that being said most of the questions were probably pulled out of some spoon fed wa***r's ****!!! This young piece of work (yes, she is young) is getting an enormous amount of joy and pleasure out of harrassing someone who they know absolutely NOTHING about. I mean really... they are probably not even young or female, live in the US, or would even know what a budgie was if if flew up and bit them in the ****!!!

 

Just to clarify... I have nothing against the young people of today... except when they shoot their mouths off. If the 'person' was an actual expert, join a real forum... you may actually learn something and then you could help educate someone... Yahoo answers is a poor excuse for a forum!!!

 

To those of you who actually have an account with Yahoo, educate where you can and have brought members over here... good on you. I wish I had the energy and mind to tolerate it's ****.

 

 

 

 

So, finally my dearest Kaz... You have sent the email on to the powers that be... now as you have said... ignore. She's waiting for you to react... she is young and will get bored soon and move on when you don't bite back on the forum. I'd keep posting as you normally do too, so she see's you're not posting to get browny points or make friends... you have plenty of them here! You answer there to 'try' and educate to anyone willing to listen.

[Hills 0]

I just googled bird mills and found this very informative post by, I believe, a very respected person in the budgie world

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=24979

[Finnie 0]

So, finally my dearest Kaz... You have sent the email on to the powers that be... now as you have said... ignore. She's waiting for you to react... she is young and will get bored soon and move on when you don't bite back on the forum.

 

 

This is curiously very much like the advice we give when someones budgie is biting their hands!

[Matt Welchman 0]

All I will say is keep your chin up Kaz.

[**KAZ** 0]

Doesnt take google long to pick up on topics does it

 

What Is Your Definition Of A Bird Mill ? - The Budgerigar Breeders ...

21 posts - 6 authors - Last post: 12 hours ago

I have been accused of running a bird mill and told I will be in jail for animal abuse. Animal abuse ? based on suggesting pepper is a good ...

forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=27919... - 12 hours ago

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....view=getnewpost

[GenericBlue 0]

honestly mate we all know who is in the right and who is in the wrong and if this person is young as sugested well

nothing more to say

no action has been brought against you and if someone was to turn up on your door you could hold your head high with pride as your aviry must be the one of the most bird friendly i know of

lets end this topic as they just going to drag you down more

if i was you i would close your account with yahoo

everything yahoo in my opinion is **** i have and wont ever go their for anything talk about viris city

as some one said above they are mostly young small minded immature young children over on yahoo anyone who really wants to learn about their wanted topic would be wize to look else where no matter what the subject

please lets end this the right bird mill info is now here lets just stop feeding yahoos ego

Edited January 12, 2010 by GenericBlue

[Daryl 0]

Another thing. How many owners of bird mills would select names for some of their birds? Most of us on here with a lot of birds manage to name at least a few which points to involvement on a personal level. Hardly sounds like a bird mill.

[robyn 0]

Doesnt take google long to pick up on topics does it

 

What Is Your Definition Of A Bird Mill ? - The Budgerigar Breeders ...

21 posts - 6 authors - Last post: 12 hours ago

I have been accused of running a bird mill and told I will be in jail for animal abuse. Animal abuse ? based on suggesting pepper is a good ...

forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=27919... - 12 hours ago

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....view=getnewpost

Hi Kaz, just came in on this and haven't gone into whole "debate" yet, BUT. From my point of view all I have had from you and this forum, has been A1 help and advice and I would have been much less informed on Breeding etc. Remember the old stick's and stone's rhyme we learn't way back when!!! It still apply's. Don't let some uninformed .....! stop you from the great job and internet friendship we enjoy on this site. Tell them to get a life or blow it out their ear. We're with you Kaz keep up the good work.

[defieldsfamily 0]

I'm confused...was the attack made here on this site or was it on Yahoo answers?

 

Either way...I for one have found your help and guidance has taught me many things since I joined this forum which has, in many cases, helped me provide an even better for my birds. To me that doesn't sound like an animal abuser!!!! I try to spoil my birds just like you...I have always appreciated you and your knowledge!

 

Everybody gets what they deserve in this life...and this twit will be no exception. My philosophy is that those who screw enough people over will always end up screwed in the end!!!!

[fran71 0]

hey Kaz all I have yo say don't worry you and your birds are all well looked after the other thing I would like to add is karma it will come back and bite them sooner or later

[**KAZ** 0]

I'm confused...was the attack made here on this site or was it on Yahoo answers?Either way...I for one have found your help and guidance has taught me many things since I joined this forum which has, in many cases, helped me provide an even better for my birds. To me that doesn't sound like an animal abuser!!!! I try to spoil my birds just like you...I have always appreciated you and your knowledge!Everybody gets what they deserve in this life...and this twit will be no exception. My philosophy is that those who screw enough people over will always end up screwed in the end!!!!

They made derogatory comments to my helpful answers there and also garnished support from "friends" to give my answers negatives to appear that I was not being helpful at all but misinforming the person asking the question. This was followed by a vitriolic email to me from the person who refused to accept a reply email. I have reported them to admin of Yahoo for the email.She is talking out of her A$$ upon pure conjecture in her made up fairy world mind. She either believes that a breeder who breeds a number of birds is a bird mill, OR her way to gain a foothold up the yahoo ladder of respect is to pull me down. I am not phased....I can live with myself....I can sleep at night. None of this mud will stick. However she has gathered a group who believe what she says and are acting upon that advice. Why am I active on Yahoo ? Because there are so many idiots giving bad answers that I am trying to help those that need help. There has to be a balance. More good advisors are needed there.The first answer everyone gives there at the furst sign of two budgiues kissing beaks is ...........ADD A NESTBOX Not one asks the age of the budgies at all.I am trying to steer some in the right direction for the birds sake. I wont stop answering there or give up or cancel my membership. Most of what makes ME , ......ME.....is I like to help people. its too ingrained in me to change now

hey Kaz all I have yo say don't worry you and your birds are all well looked after the other thing I would like to add is karma it will come back and bite them sooner or later

Karma ....Yeah...so true

[renee 0]

They made derogatory comments to my helpful answers there and also garnished support from "friends" to give my answers negatives to appear that I was not being helpful at all but misinforming the person asking the question. This was followed by a vitriolic email to me from the person who refused to accept a reply email. I have reported them to admin of Yahoo for the email.She is talking out of her A$ upon pure conjecture in her made up fairy world mind. She either believes that a breeder who breeds a number of birds is a bird mill, OR her way to gain a foothold up the yahoo ladder of respect is to pull me down. I am not phased....I can live with myself....I can sleep at night. None of this mud will stick. However she has gathered a group who believe what she says and are acting upon that advice. Why am I active on Yahoo ? Because there are so many idiots giving bad answers that I am trying to help those that need help. There has to be a balance. More good advisors are needed there.The first answer everyone gives there at the furst sign of two budgiues kissing beaks is ...........ADD A NESTBOX Not one asks the age of the budgies at all.I am trying to steer some in the right direction for the birds sake. I wont stop answering there or give up or cancel my membership. Most of what makes ME , ......ME.....is I like to help people. its too ingrained in me to change now

Jeeze Kaz, I can see this has really got under your skin but it IS bullshit Yahoo! after all.

 

These people obviously don't know you or how your birds are cared for ... We do and we support you.

[**KAZ** 0]

Jeeze Kaz, I can see this has really got under your skin but it IS bullshit Yahoo! after all.

 

These people obviously don't know you or how your birds are cared for ... We do and we support you.

 

 

I am sorry Renee.......this has NOT got under my skin at all......I am not that emotional over the stupid stuff of life

[GenericBlue 0]

. I wont stop answering there or give up or cancel my membership. Most of what makes ME , ......ME.....is I like to help people. its too ingrained in me to change now

totally understand mate but somethimes when your efforts are fruitless you can do more harm than good

if this person is turning against you people whom at first respected you

really how much did they respect you in the first place

i guess if you choose to keep trying to help people whom never really listen and do their own thing regardless then pretty much their just draining you of your engy and efforts

a ...are they really worth your effort

b... does any good come from your guidance their

and c... are you really able to cope with they bad mouthing and sheep antics (meaning follow the leader campaign to toss pie in your beautiful face

cause im sorry darl but as i see it your not able to sleep regarding this and its not because of any wrong doing from your side its the wrong that they are doing causing your due cause for strong emotion to unfold this atack on your name as a informer and a person

i totally see what is going on and straight out going to say its not going to stop untill theirs no mention of the people or sight involved and thats my last thoughts on subject

i love you kaz your quiet a person and your better than them

keep it that way hun

continue on their fine but turn a eye to all that is said against you as it is only words and can only harm you if you let them

and seems to me their winning as you are being afected by this and they know it

stop this to and fro emotional challange and in a few weeks all will carm if not then its a matter of internet bullying and a matter for the police from their mabe even a slander case

Edited January 13, 2010 by GenericBlue

[**KAZ** 0]

. I wont stop answering there or give up or cancel my membership. Most of what makes ME , ......ME.....is I like to help people. its too ingrained in me to change now

totally understand mate but somethimes when your efforts are fruitless you can do more harm than good

if this person is turning against you people whom at first respected you

really how much did they respect you in the first place

i guess if you choose to keep trying to help people whom never really listen and do their own thing regardless then pretty much their just draining you of your engy and efforts

a ...are they really worth your effort

b... does any good come from your guidance their

and c... are you really able to cope with they bad mouthing and sheep antics (meaning follow the leader campaign to toss pie in your beautiful face

cause im sorry darl but as i see it your not able to sleep regarding this and its not because of any wrong doing from your side its the wrong that they are doing causing your due cause for strong emotion to unfold this atack on your name as a informer and a person

i totally see what is going on and straight out going to say its not going to stop untill theirs no mention of the people or sight involved and thats my last thoughts on subject

i love you kaz your quiet a person and your better than them

keep it that way hun

continue on their fine but turn a eye to all that is said against you as it is only words and can only harm you if you let them

and seems to me their winning as you are being afected by this and they know it

stop this to and fro emotional challange and in a few weeks all will carm if not then its a matter of internet bullying and a matter for the police from their mabe even a slander case

 

 

Its okay buddy........I CAN sleep. I leave it in the hands of the Gods, or at worst the admin over there

[GenericBlue 0]

. I wont stop answering there or give up or cancel my membership. Most of what makes ME , ......ME.....is I like to help people. :question: its too ingrained in me to change now

totally understand mate but somethimes when your efforts are fruitless you can do more harm than good

if this person is turning against you people whom at first respected you

really how much did they respect you in the first place :raincloud:

i guess if you choose to keep trying to help people whom never really listen and do their own thing regardless then pretty much their just draining you of your engy and efforts

a ...are they really worth your effort

b... does any good come from your guidance their

and c... are you really able to cope with they bad mouthing and sheep antics (meaning follow the leader campaign to toss pie in your beautiful face

cause im sorry darl but as i see it your not able to sleep regarding this and its not because of any wrong doing from your side its the wrong that they are doing causing your due cause for strong emotion to unfold this atack on your name as a informer and a person

i totally see what is going on and straight out going to say its not going to stop untill theirs no mention of the people or sight involved and thats my last thoughts on subject

i love you kaz your quiet a person and your better than them

keep it that way hun

continue on their fine but turn a eye to all that is said against you as it is only words and can only harm you if you let them

and seems to me their winning as you are being afected by this and they know it

stop this to and fro emotional challange and in a few weeks all will carm if not then its a matter of internet bullying and a matter for the police from their mabe even a slander case

 

 

Its okay buddy........I CAN sleep. I leave it in the hands of the Gods, or at worst the admin over there

 

im sure you can i think its apaling that this has happpened but im glad your dealig with it in a productive way

 

remember three fold

[Finnie 0]

Kaz, I would like to say, it amazes me, all of the things you do with your life. (Not just our forum and your budgies, but also your club participation, your business, your hearse hobby, your family.) You must be a fast worker, because otherwise, how would you have time for it all?

 

And you are always around the forum to fix things for us and give us help when we need it. I often feel like I need to do whatever I can not to add to your burden. I can hardly believe you have time to deal with Yahoo,too.

 

So if helping people on Yahoo is meaningful to you, go for it. (But I think the people here need and appreciate you more than they do over there, so don't let them sap your energy!)

 

** This is the opinion of a sluggish, slow person who admires people with energy who accomplish a lot**

[**KAZ** 0]

Kaz, I would like to say, it amazes me, all of the things you do with your life. (Not just our forum and your budgies, but also your club participation, your business, your hearse hobby, your family.) You must be a fast worker, because otherwise, how would you have time for it all?

 

And you are always around the forum to fix things for us and give us help when we need it. I often feel like I need to do whatever I can not to add to your burden. I can hardly believe you have time to deal with Yahoo,too.

 

So if helping people on Yahoo is meaningful to you, go for it. (But I think the people here need and appreciate you more than they do over there, so don't let them sap your energy!)

 

** This is the opinion of a sluggish, slow person who admires people with energy who accomplish a lot**

How would I have time for it all ? Easy....my husband does the housework