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**KAZ**

What Is Your Definition Of A Bird Mill ?

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What is your definition or understanding of what a bird mill is ? :(

 

 

I have been accused of running a bird mill and told I will be in jail for animal abuse. Animal abuse ? based on suggesting pepper is a good bleeding stopper and abuse based on breeding the amount of birds I have.

Mind you I currently have only two pairs in breeder cages :raincloud:

 

Thoughts ??

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Do not listen to the childish words of the 'likes' that take Y***o info as 'Correct' :(

Edited by KAZ

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Somebody sound jealous, gees tell them to get a live

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There is a serious slandering campaign going on :(

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Do you mean on this site or somewhere else?

 

I have a good answer for that we have some one around here I have to be careful not to get my self in deep water but this person breeds hundreds of budgies for the market, the birds are squashed in a few small aviaries way too many birds for the size cage and this person just chucks food on top on all the husk , this person has been know to sweep up the seed at bird shows and take them home to feed the poor birds, there would be dead birds in the aviary but this person wouldn't even know because there are so many in there.

This person would be classed as a bird mill because this person only breeds to sell birds. And they are not looked after probably,

Kaz you breed to show and you can breed more than most of us because you have the room and the $. You are no different than any breeder around here especailly in Melbourne and I swear if I had the room and the $ I would be heaps mmore than I do, and of course you need to get rid of the rubbish like all of us, even the ones that are good but not quite good enough.

YOU ARE NOT A BIRD MILL PLEASE DEFEND YOURSELF.

Edited by splat

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kaz with all the stuff you just did to upgrade and rehouse your birds for better comphet anyone who could possably belive that your running a bird mill must be the most shellow minded person around

take no notice and as far as slander goes i have a belief that if you don't listen and pay no attention to it knowing your the one who knows the truth ......then your good friends know and so do all the people that matter babe your very good bird husbandry dont worry :(

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What is your definition or understanding of what a bird mill is ? :(

 

 

I have been accused of running a bird mill and told I will be in jail for animal abuse. Animal abuse ? based on suggesting pepper is a good bleeding stopper and abuse based on breeding the amount of birds I have.

Mind you I currently have only two pairs in breeder cages :raincloud:

 

Thoughts ??

Turn the other cheek.

 

Some people have nothing better to do than spread rumours, false allegations, and general ill will. Gossip is always more interesting to some than actual truth or facts, it is because the source of the like becomes the center of attention and feels better about themselves when they put someone else down.

 

They never change because this activity is based on the feeling of envy.

 

Not much you can do about them and their behavior so best focus on your own actions and do not stoop to their level.

 

In fact I would disappear this topic altogether as you are only lending credence to their actions.

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I wont disappear this topic Renee as, if left alone, it will end up on Google or other searches and maybe we can educate to the actual definition of a bird mill. This forum is about education after all.

 

In my minds eye bird mills are about tiny cramped conditions, filthy, dead birds, mass breeding, pet trade orientated only, birds bred at first sign of a coloured cere whether they are of age or not, commercial gain, lives lived and died in breeding cages with no room to fly.

 

I can sleep at night knowing my birds are absolutely spoilt in so many ways.

 

A lot of birds in the world even those owned by the do gooders who loudly proclaim bird rights, .....a lot live their lives in substandard cages.

 

I know how to turn to other cheek and I have done as well as report an extremely abusive email sent to me with no right to reply as the answer is blocked.

However, its time to speak out so others will read..................that just because you breed birds does not make you someone who runs a bird mill.

Edited by KAZ

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I wont disappear this topic Renee as, if left alone, it will end up on Google or other searches and maybe we can educate to the actual definition of a bird mill. This forum is about education after all.

 

In my minds eye bird mills are about tiny cramped conditions, filthy, dead birds, mass breeding, pet trade orientated only, birds bred at first sign of a coloured cere whether they are of age or not, commercial gain, lives lived and died in breeding cages with no room to fly.

 

I can sleep at night knowing my birds are absolutely spoilt in so many ways.

 

A lot of birds in the world even those owned by the do gooders who loudly proclaim bird rights, .....a lot live their lives in substandard cages.

 

I know how to turn to other cheek and I have done as well as report an extremely abusive email sent to me with no right to reply as the answer is blocked.

However, its time to speak out so others will read..................that just because you breed birds does not make you someone who runs a bird mill.

I did not mention bird mill in my reply, I was addressing your concern that a slander campaign was being waged against you and those are my thoughts. :(

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What is your definition or understanding of what a bird mill is ? :(

 

 

I have been accused of running a bird mill and told I will be in jail for animal abuse. Animal abuse ? based on suggesting pepper is a good bleeding stopper and abuse based on breeding the amount of birds I have.

Mind you I currently have only two pairs in breeder cages :raincloud:

 

Thoughts ??

Turn the other cheek.

 

Some people have nothing better to do than spread rumours, false allegations, and general ill will. Gossip is always more interesting to some than actual truth or facts, it is because the source of the like becomes the center of attention and feels better about themselves when they put someone else down.

 

They never change because this activity is based on the feeling of envy.

 

Not much you can do about them and their behavior so best focus on your own actions and do not stoop to their level.

In fact I would disappear this topic altogether as you are only lending credence to their actions.

ren all you said was so spot on

 

but i do belive kaz may be slightly hurt

being the understatmentr and has turned to us for support

mabe this person has made her wonder what people truely see and is simply looking for reassurance

 

i too would breed more in a larger way for showing if i was able to

its hard to be a successful show breeder and get somewhere if you have to cull most your stock and or chicks

breeding's all about maintaining a certain thing which if you need to move stock on due to lack of space is very very hard indeed not imposable just you need to be very awher what your letting go to replace having more means you can be able to maintain strands longer and better

 

these people are just stirring the pot for reaction i belive

 

 

 

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What is your definition or understanding of what a bird mill is ? :(

I have been accused of running a bird mill and told I will be in jail for animal abuse. Animal abuse ? based on suggesting pepper is a good bleeding stopper and abuse based on breeding the amount of birds I have.

Mind you I currently have only two pairs in breeder cages :raincloud:

 

Thoughts ??

Turn the other cheek.

 

Some people have nothing better to do than spread rumours, false allegations, and general ill will. Gossip is always more interesting to some than actual truth or facts, it is because the source of the like becomes the center of attention and feels better about themselves when they put someone else down.

 

They never change because this activity is based on the feeling of envy.

 

Not much you can do about them and their behavior so best focus on your own actions and do not stoop to their level.

In fact I would disappear this topic altogether as you are only lending credence to their actions.

ren all you said was so spot on

 

but i do belive kaz may be slightly hurt

being the understatmentr and has turned to us for support

mabe this person has made her wonder what people truely see and is simply looking for reassurance

 

i too would breed more in a larger way for showing if i was able to

its hard to be a successful show breeder and get somewhere if you have to cull most your stock and or chicks

breeding's all about maintaining a certain thing which if you need to move stock on due to lack of space is very very hard indeed not imposable just you need to be very awher what your letting go to replace having more means you can be able to maintain strands longer and better

 

these people are just stirring the pot for reaction i belive

Yeah, my thoughts too. **** off the pot stirers! :rolleyes:

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Geeze, all us show breeders are bird mills then. I have more birds than a lot of breeders on here and less than some. I use antibiotics to treat sickness, I ensure my birds don't suffer the heat with special shutters, water coolers and the like. I scrape poo, sweep and vacuum my aviary regularly - just like you Kaz. But I guess if someone has it out for you they can say whatever they want......... it might be totally ridiculous and vindictive but I suppose there are people out there JUST like that.

 

I wonder what the RSPCA would have to say - probably that they wish there were more bird keepers around like you.

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I did not mention bird mill in my reply, I was addressing your concern that a slander campaign was being waged against you and those are my thoughts. :(

I know. I was not addressing the bird mill phrase in relation to anything you said :raincloud:

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Geeze, all us show breeders are bird mills then. I have more birds than a lot of breeders on here and less than some. I use antibiotics to treat sickness, I ensure my birds don't suffer the heat with special shutters, water coolers and the like. I scrape poo, sweep and vacuum my aviary regularly - just like you Kaz. But I guess if someone has it out for you they can say whatever they want......... it might be totally ridiculous and vindictive but I suppose there are people out there JUST like that.

 

I wonder what the RSPCA would have to say - probably that they wish there were more bird keepers around like you.

Well said Nubbly :(

 

On a more practical level Kaz, why don't you do what I did last week and have your vet pay a home visit?

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but i do belive kaz may be slightly hurt

being the understatmentr and has turned to us for support

mabe this person has made her wonder what people truely see and is simply looking for reassurance

 

i too would breed more in a larger way for showing if i was able to

its hard to be a successful show breeder and get somewhere if you have to cull most your stock and or chicks

breeding's all about maintaining a certain thing which if you need to move stock on due to lack of space is very very hard indeed not imposable just you need to be very awher what your letting go to replace having more means you can be able to maintain strands longer and better

 

these people are just stirring the pot for reaction i belive

 

 

 

[/color][/color]

The person has an agenda.....they slander me as a top contributor with solid good answers and they then go up the ladder and take my position. In doing this they also have been gathering support from others.

Upset...maybe. But cannot believe that people believe this cr*p without real knowledge and act upon one persons say so.

 

 

By The Way.......our forum has been described as

a ****-poor forum loaded with more misinformation

 

My intentions here are..........lets debate the real meaning of bird mills with correct info, so those that google bird mills will know what one is and what one isnt.

Edited by KAZ

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Geeze, all us show breeders are bird mills then. I have more birds than a lot of breeders on here and less than some. I use antibiotics to treat sickness, I ensure my birds don't suffer the heat with special shutters, water coolers and the like. I scrape poo, sweep and vacuum my aviary regularly - just like you Kaz. But I guess if someone has it out for you they can say whatever they want......... it might be totally ridiculous and vindictive but I suppose there are people out there JUST like that.

 

I wonder what the RSPCA would have to say - probably that they wish there were more bird keepers around like you.

 

tOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU NUBBLY AND I AM TOO PROBABLY A BIRD MILL AS i SELL MORE BIRDS THAT I BREED THAN I KEEP. BECAUSE i AM AFTER THAT PERFECTION THING YOU KNOW THAT SHOW BIRD :( THE ULTIMITE BIRD THE ILLUDES ME :raincloud:

 

NONE OF US THINK THAT ABOUT YOU.....

 

I THINK YOU ARE A VERY CARING BREEDER AND LOVE YOUR BIRDS SO MUCH " WELL YOU DO NAME THEM ..... I DON'T"

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Geeze, all us show breeders are bird mills then. I have more birds than a lot of breeders on here and less than some. I use antibiotics to treat sickness, I ensure my birds don't suffer the heat with special shutters, water coolers and the like. I scrape poo, sweep and vacuum my aviary regularly - just like you Kaz. But I guess if someone has it out for you they can say whatever they want......... it might be totally ridiculous and vindictive but I suppose there are people out there JUST like that.I wonder what the RSPCA would have to say - probably that they wish there were more bird keepers around like you.
:raincloud: Yep and since a lot here breed more than I do....that makes the others more bird millers than me :rolleyes:
WELL YOU DO NAME THEM ..... I DON'T"
:(

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The person has an agenda.....they slander me as a top contributor with solid good answers and they then go up the ladder and take my position. In doing this they also have been gathering support from others.

Upset...maybe. But cannot believe that people believe this cr*p without real knowledge and act upon one persons say so.

Fine, then fight fire with fire and out them : Name and Shame!

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The person has an agenda.....they slander me as a top contributor with solid good answers and they then go up the ladder and take my position. In doing this they also have been gathering support from others.

Upset...maybe. But cannot believe that people believe this cr*p without real knowledge and act upon one persons say so.

Fine, then fight fire with fire and out them : Name and Shame!

Such brave people as this send nasty emails but block a reply. Anything written "online" in public by me will make me wear the punishment not the sneaky person who has accused me.

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The person has an agenda.....they slander me as a top contributor with solid good answers and they then go up the ladder and take my position. In doing this they also have been gathering support from others.

Upset...maybe. But cannot believe that people believe this cr*p without real knowledge and act upon one persons say so.

Fine, then fight fire with fire and out them : Name and Shame!

Such brave people as this send nasty emails but block a reply. Anything written "online" in public by me will make me wear the punishment not the sneaky person who has accused me.

So put up and shut up then .... don't mean to be nasty but I can't see what your alternatives are other than the ones I have suggested. :)

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Look people all have different ideas and different agendas. People with agendas that benefit only themselves will step on everyone and everything around them to get to the position/belief/following that they think is right. Take PETA for example - now no disrespct here it anyone is a member or anything BUT the core PETA founders believed that NO-ONE has the right to exploit animals in ANY WAY. That is even to the point of having pets, eating meat, nothing. We should all be vegans and never step on an ant sort of stuff and they believe that this is how everyone should be. The animal rights debate is always an interesting one and drawing the line between what is acceptable and what is not isn't all that easy sometimes AND not everyone will agree where it is.

 

Now where exactly IS that line in the sand that distinguishes a bird mill from not a bird mill. I don't think it's really been identified in a legal way. Is breeding 24 cabinets for 6 months animal abuse or cruelty and how does ANYONE rationally make that assessment?

 

Having said that though, most of our birds want for nothing and generally live reasonably long healthy lives. They get fruit and vege, soft food, fresh branches etc etc etc. Does that make up for keeping them in semi confinded areas?

 

I personally don't really know where that line in the sand is but I just can't believe that 200 birds kept in a clean, fresh and health environment with room to fly and a good healthy diet can be considered a bird mill (and not just because this is how I keep birds). I do consider pairs of birds in the same too small and dirty enclosure their whole lives, always breeding or expected to breed, always fed the minimum to keep them alive, with little or no other respect and care shown, seems much more of a bird mill than the way most show breeders care for their birds.

 

But Kaz if this person has a personal agenda then bird mill or no bird mill is just a smoke screen. They are not worth the bother and who cares what they say about this forum, people who read that will come and have a look and will be able to decide for themselves if it's **** poor or not. Best option is to ignore the bullshit and get on with it.

 

Ooooh look **** is auto consored but bullshit isn't - how nice!

Edited by nubbly5

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The person has an agenda.....they slander me as a top contributor with solid good answers and they then go up the ladder and take my position. In doing this they also have been gathering support from others.

Upset...maybe. But cannot believe that people believe this cr*p without real knowledge and act upon one persons say so.

Fine, then fight fire with fire and out them : Name and Shame!

Such brave people as this send nasty emails but block a reply. Anything written "online" in public by me will make me wear the punishment not the sneaky person who has accused me.

So put up and shut up then .... don't mean to be nasty but I can't see what your alternatives are other than the ones I have suggested. :)

Renee, you may have a different way to me and I respect that. However, my way is.....

1. They person has been reported for the abusive email as is my right

2. I cannot do anything in public as it is against rules

 

How I am dealing with this cr*p is.

I debate it here. Google will pick it up.

She will read it too as she is watching.

Others by reading who may have wondered at what point a breeder becomes a "bird mill" will have their silent questions answered,

Her followers will read it also.

 

Not everything is about smacking horns together in a do or die battle.

 

For the silly moo who has accused me of animal cruelty worth jailing.........read my aviary topic here http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=14142 and then tell me I am a bird mill.

 

Read my profile here http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showuser=1976 and all my topics here http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....ult_type=topics

 

 

and when you are done "eating crow" you can apologise.........................bird mommy

Edited by KAZ

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The person has an agenda.....they slander me as a top contributor with solid good answers and they then go up the ladder and take my position. In doing this they also have been gathering support from others.

Upset...maybe. But cannot believe that people believe this cr*p without real knowledge and act upon one persons say so.

Fine, then fight fire with fire and out them : Name and Shame!

Such brave people as this send nasty emails but block a reply. Anything written "online" in public by me will make me wear the punishment not the sneaky person who has accused me.

So put up and shut up then .... don't mean to be nasty but I can't see what your alternatives are other than the ones I have suggested. :)

 

ren u mioss the point kaz wants the true defenition of a bird mill up not to wine abiout whats happened

 

so...

okay bird mill

a place where birds are kept in confinment in breeding cages for through out their life time till death subcomes them from some way or another

 

birds breed for sale for money perpuses only ..not for the enjoyment or love of the animal but for solatory income

 

just because someone cares for their birds by feeding and watering them does not mean they breed birds and look after them

 

to breed and look after birds takes a great deal of time and effort not to mention money

theirs the all over health and care that needs to be revised each day not just when the bird is sitting on cage floor pumping its tail or worse

bird mills do not deal with health issues their awnser to ill health is to simply knock the bird on the head

or just replace it when it dies

no cleaning of the cage it died in or anything

 

chicks are not allowed to be raised by their peronts in some bird mills

a bird mill can consist of two pairs in my belif if thoughs birds are being breed clutch after clutch with no reast and chicks taken at two weeks to be raised by hand in my opinion that is also a bird mill if the intention is to sell the birds for profit

 

bird mills come in many forms shapes and sizes

basiclly anyone who breeds birds for constant sale with out resting their birds is a bird mill no mater how good they feed or klean cages

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Look people all have different ideas and different agendas. People with agendas that benefit only themselves will step on everyone and everything around them to get to the position/belief/following that they think is right. Take PETA for example - now no disrespct here it anyone is a member or anything BUT the core PETA founders believed that NO-ONE has the right to exploit animals in ANY WAY. That is even to the point of having pets, eating meat, nothing. We should all be vegans and never step on an ant sort of stuff and they believe that this is how everyone should be. The animal rights debate is always an interesting one and drawing the line between what is acceptable and what is not isn't all that easy sometimes AND not everyone will agree where it is.Now where exactly IS that line in the sand that distinguishes a bird mill from not a bird mill. I don't think it's really been identified in a legal way. Is breeding 24 cabinets for 6 months animal abuse or cruelty and how does ANYONE rationally make that assessment?Having said that though, most of our birds want for nothing and generally live reasonably long healthy lives. They get fruit and vege, soft food, fresh branches etc etc etc. Does that make up for keeping them in semi confinded areas?I personally don't really know where that line in the sand is but I just can't believe that 200 birds kept in a clean, fresh and health environment with room to fly and a good healthy diet can be considered a bird mill (and not just because this is how I keep birds). I do consider pairs of birds in the same too small and dirty enclosure their whole lives, always breeding or expected to breed, always fed the minimum to keep them alive, with little or no other respect and care shown, seems much more of a bird mill than the way most show breeders care for their birds. But Kaz if this person has a personal agenda then bird mill or no bird mill is just a smoke screen. They are not worth the bother and who cares what they say about this forum, people who read that will come and have a look and will be able to decide for themselves if it's **** poor or not. Best option is to ignore the bullshit and get on with it. Ooooh look **** is auto censored but bullshit isn't - how nice!
Well said :)
Ooooh look **** is auto consored but bullshit isn't - how nice!
:rofl: :rofl:
ren u mioss the point kaz wants the true defenition of a bird mill up not to wine abiout whats happened
Thankyou so much for getting the point GB :D
ren u mioss the point kaz wants the true defenition of a bird mill up not to wine abiout whats happened so...okay bird milla place where birds are kept in confinment in breeding cages for through out their life time till death subcomes them from some way or another birds breed for sale for money perpuses only ..not for the enjoyment or love of the animal but for solatory incomejust because someone cares for their birds by feeding and watering them does not mean they breed birds and look after themto breed and look after birds takes a great deal of time and effort not to mention money theirs the all over health and care that needs to be revised each day not just when the bird is sitting on cage floor pumping its tail or worse bird mills do not deal with health issues their awnser to ill health is to simply knock the bird on the head or just replace it when it dies no cleaning of the cage it died in or anything chicks are not allowed to be raised by their peronts in some bird mills a bird mill can consist of two pairs in my belif if thoughs birds are being breed clutch after clutch with no reast and chicks taken at two weeks to be raised by hand in my opinion that is also a bird mill if the intention is to sell the birds for profitbird mills come in many forms shapes and sizes basiclly anyone who breeds birds for constant sale with out resting their birds is a bird mill no mater how good they feed or klean cages
Excellent post and great definition of bird mill or not :)

Thanks for taking the time to get the point and write this up mate .....:D

Edited by KAZ

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well i may be dimer than i sim some times but im not as dim as i sim :rofl:

 

and i only did as asked

this forum is good in aspects and at times bad but all up its great

yes somethings on here are iffy but you take aboard what you want

its the same anywhere

people gosip or slander for their own need to achive a static which be it a good one or a bad one gives them their 3 seconds of fame

 

when i joined my club i was slandered and i was labled before i even breed a bird

i almost left my club due to it

i was acussed of saying my club is **** and does not help i apparently were saying this to other club members

personally i dont even understand club polissy and i didnt even relize we showed birds as a team untill i went to a show :)

all because i made contacts with other breeders from other clubs and got support from and advise from anywhere i could

i belive my club to have some great breeders of birds and some really helpful people

istill get **** said about me but i decided i dont care as the ones who know me truley would no im not that kind of person i say wghat i have to say up frount

but to be honest i breed birds now so i decided to reprozent gippsland with my birds in our team and if that person or persons does not like it is as they are worryed my birds are for a beginner quiet resonable and mabe i feel they dont want the competishion to improve their own birds due to new comer who knows but i do know that i have been snubbed by a few due to slandder it does take a unwanted place in most club inviroments and its not easy to just be when no one knows you so takes the words of long time breeders whom are plainly just unhappy with their own achivements

to make it anywhere you must strive yourself and birds dont just come to u u need to find the birds right for you this is where the problems start as we all want diffrent i went beond the club and state to aquire birds and it has put me in a ugly spot with others through untrue words spoken by others who can not do as i have done their for slandered me to try and make me look dishonest and a gosip

i just smile and achive quietly

kaz you will get the last lagugh

you know the true values of bird keeping people will belive and listen to what they want if they havent got it in them to ask your side of something then their not worth explaining yourself to them and better just left to be narrow minded and let them gosip as its all going to wash out one day all lies surfuss sooner or later

Edited by GenericBlue

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