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My Birds Are Unwell

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thanks for that ren

do u treat for cociddia at all

I give Triple C for a few days IF I see pooey bums OR in the winter if rain has got into the aviary. :P

 

Cocci is a primary infection and if you have an outbreak you pretty much know about it sooner than later ... I haven't had a mass outbreak - touch wood! :D

 

Careful here Renee. Cocci is not just a primary infection. Oocysts are around all the time no matter how clean your aviary is. Cocci is also often considered a secondary infection if your birds health levels are down AND if you get a proper outbreak you will "know" about it when a substantial number of birds have already died.

 

Cocci ocycts (eggs) need to sporolate to be infective to the bird and they only do this when temps are over 20 degrees and there is available moisture. At the change of the season here in WA when it is warm and damp it's a good plan to do a preventative treatment. In other areas I guess if you have warm wet weather for a a few days or more, preventative treatments should definitely be considered.

 

Triple C is an antibiotic and will treat secondary infections that often go along with Cocci but will not treat the coccidia itself.

 

And the comments about overmedicating and immune systems. I agree in principal but am torn two ways a little on this - Splat and macka - "the birds natural immune system"??????? And what the *** would THAT be after we jam them into a small aviary environment and breed poor immune systems with poor immune systems just because they might win shows?

 

We have CHANGED these birds and we keep them in an evironment that it TOTALLY unnatural when you compare them to their wild ancestors. I struggle to understand the complete non medication regime in this situation. Not overdone so as to build bugs that are resistant to treatment as well as animals that are not exposed to bugs so have little natural ability to rally their own defenses but at some stage you have to provide some support for the conditions that we maintain our birds in.

 

And don't think I'm having a go at bird keeping itself or the choices we make based on the hobby that we pursue but we also need to acknowledge this as a fact.

Edited by nubbly5

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thanks for that ren

do u treat for cociddia at all

I give Triple C for a few days IF I see pooey bums OR in the winter if rain has got into the aviary. :D

 

Cocci is a primary infection and if you have an outbreak you pretty much know about it sooner than later ... I haven't had a mass outbreak - touch wood! :P

 

Careful here Renee. Cocci is not just a primary infection. Oocysts are around all the time no matter how clean your aviary is. Cocci is also often considered a secondary infection if your birds health levels are down AND if you get a proper outbreak you will "know" about it when a substantial number of birds have already died.

 

Cocci ocycts (eggs) need to sporolate to be infective to the bird and they only do this when temps are over 20 degrees and there is available moisture. At the change of the season here in WA when it is warm and damp it's a good plan to do a preventative treatment. In other areas I guess if you have warm wet weather for a a few days or more, preventative treatments should definitely be considered.

 

Triple C is an antibiotic and will treat secondary infections that often go along with Cocci but will not treat the coccidia itself.

 

And the comments about overmedicating and immune systems. I agree in principal but am torn two ways a little on this - Splat and macka - "the birds natural immune system"??????? And what the *** would THAT be after we jam them into a small aviary environment and breed poor immune systems with poor immune systems just because they might win shows?

 

We have CHANGED these birds and we keep them in an evironment that it TOTALLY unnatural when you compare them to their wild ancestors. I struggle to understand the complete non medication regime in this situation. Not overdone so as to build bugs that are resistant to treatment as well as animals that are not exposed to bugs so have little natural ability to rally their own defenses but at some stage you have to provide some support for the conditions that we maintain our birds in.

 

And don't think I'm having a go at bird keeping itself or the choices we make based on the hobby that we pursue but we also need to acknowledge this as a fact.

Mmmmmmmm. Thanks Nubbly, food for thought. Maybe I will give a preventative course of Carlox in early March. :P

 

Look, as I said - everyone is different. As long as I buy birds (and I love buying 'better' birds) I will always put them through quarantine and then come summer treat the flock. The last thing I want, and have avoided to date, is an outbreak of something during my breeding season. :lol:

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I am not against preventive medication Nubbly, I do it myself but I was just saying we should be careful to how much and how often we do it.

Like I think to give them treatment for psittacosis ( doxy ), canker, mega and cocci plus worms and lice and mite all together or one after another seems to be over doing it. I am thinking poor birds. I know there is probotic in there to calm the gut etc.

 

I guess I am in trouble for writing this :P

 

This is the 1st year I have treated my birds for doxy, they were given trimadine a couple of years ago on the advice of the vet, My birds get apple cider vinigar with the mother in it put in their water all the time, adviced from the vet and I can say honestly I have never had sick birds, I have lots a couple over the years. Greg has done autopies on them and one had tumors as in cancer but this bird was 6 years old and the other had a blocked bile duct.

And also the whole club treated their birds including mine for canker middle of last year because 2 members had it in their birds. These 2 members lost all their young.

 

I treat for worms lice and mite one a regular basis and I do use a sulphur medication before i head for the antibotics but I am going to keep doing the doxy preventive treatment before breeding season.

Edited by KAZ

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I am not against preventive medication Nubbly, I do it myself but I was just saying we should be careful to how much and how often we do it.

Like I think to give them treatment for doxy, canker, mega and cocci plus worms and lice and mite all together or one after another seems to be over doing it. I am thinking poor birds. I know there is probotic in there to calm the gut etc.

It is over a 6 month period. :D

And also the whole club treated their birds including mine for canker middle of last year because 2 members had it in their birds. These 2 members lost all their young.

:P

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I guess I am in trouble for writing this :P

 

Why on earth would you be in trouble?! :lol: Everyone has a different take on things and if we can't learn and grow from each other then we will go nowhere. I would hate to think that anyone felt like they would be in trouble for sharing what they know or think about the different aspects of budgie-ing.

 

I just like to try and get people to think outside the box a bit. We are all good at parrotting each other but how often do we actually sit and critically think about the different points of view or how what we do actually affects the whole picture. Whether you agree with them or not is completely beside the point but you can pick little gems of information from each and every person.

 

Oh and GB - I recognise this little fellow! Now I wonder where I've seen HIM before......... :D

sherbert.jpg

 

And I breed right through summer and have for the last 4 years or so. They seem to cope really well and breeding results are fabulous this year.

 

I doxy them immediately before they go in. The only other treatments they get are cocci prevention maybe 2x a year when the weather dictates that it's a good idea. I had not run a canker treatment for 3-4 years but have just run one through the aviary birds as I was a touch suspicious. I won't run another unless I need to.

 

I can't run ACV or KD powder as we run bore water and it is reasonably acidic already. When you add too much acid to birds diets they have trouble absorbing certain nutrients and can become very thin. I found THAT out the hard way - but since water testing and removing ACV all is good.

 

This system seems to work well for me but I will occasionally try other things too on the whole though - if it ain't broke I don't try to fix it.

Edited by nubbly5

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I guess I am in trouble for writing this :P

 

Why on earth would you be in trouble?! :D Everyone has a different take on things and if we can't learn and grow from each other then we will go nowhere. I would hate to think that anyone felt like they would be in trouble for sharing what they know or think about the different aspects of budgie-ing.

 

I just like to try and get people to think outside the box a bit. We are all good at parrotting each other but how often do we actually sit and critically think about the different points of view or how what we do actually affects the whole picture. Whether you agree with them or not is completely beside the point but you can pick little gems of information from each and every person.

Hear, Hear! :P

I can't run ACV or KD powder as we run bore water and it is reasonably acidic already. When you add too much acid to birds diets they have trouble absorbing certain nutrients and can become very thin. I found THAT out the hard way - but since water testing and removing ACV all is good.

Interesting! :lol:

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Thanks Nubbly, i was just sort doing my sick sense of humor joke there.

Renee when the 2 members birds got the canker we all treated because I club is vey small not many members and those members were bringing their birds along to meetings along with everybody else, plus some of us had visited these aviaries before they worked out what was wrong so to be on the safe side we all treated our birds.

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Renee when the 2 members birds got the canker we all treated because I club is vey small not many members and those members were bringing their birds along to meetings along with everybody else, plus some of us had visited these aviaries before they worked out what was wrong so to be on the safe side we all treated our birds.

:P

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I can't run ACV or KD powder as we run bore water and it is reasonably acidic already. When you add too much acid to birds diets they have trouble absorbing certain nutrients and can become very thin. I found THAT out the hard way - but since water testing and removing ACV all is good.

 

whats acv nubbly ???

or kd powder

 

yes i didnt really want to let that beautiful boy go but he has a great loving home

as i knew and as you culled he was everything but very small

if i had of had hens with size and or enough about them he would be with me still but i do not :P i have 3 better cocks from u two of which are half brothers by the mother and split blue so im working with them i will get a lacewing cock when i find a nice wide long one ...lol i will be looking for years im sure

 

 

i got a lacewing chick from your Opaline light green split lacewing cock though the other day to a white lacewing hen

i believe he is not split to blue but his chicks will be and all will be opaline as mum is also :D hope i get a few cocks

 

 

 

still no news from vet im getting quiet impatient :( now

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still no news from vet im getting quiet impatient :( now

 

 

Do you call them every day and bug them? Might give them incentive to, in turn, bug the lab. :P

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I can't run ACV or KD powder as we run bore water and it is reasonably acidic already. When you add too much acid to birds diets they have trouble absorbing certain nutrients and can become very thin. I found THAT out the hard way - but since water testing and removing ACV all is good.

 

whats acv nubbly ???

or kd powder

 

 

Sorry GB my bad for shortening them.

 

Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV)

KD Powder is a water acidifyer sold by Dr Rob Marshall

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I can't run ACV or KD powder as we run bore water and it is reasonably acidic already. When you add too much acid to birds diets they have trouble absorbing certain nutrients and can become very thin. I found THAT out the hard way - but since water testing and removing ACV all is good.

 

whats acv nubbly ???

or kd powder

 

 

Sorry GB my bad for shortening them.

 

Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV)

KD Powder is a water acidifyer sold by Dr Rob Marshall

 

well nub you may just helped me their

i been using lemon juce in water and aple cider vin alot as i got told to do to keep cocci at bay

and risk of kanker

mabe they lost weight from that as all birds lost it

oviously it has stopped since treat ment started

as for ringing vet yes but they wont take me seriously if i hound them the results were sent off its not in their hands

:(

 

i put all birds back in aviary today though so they can be on last treatment all together in same place :P i figure its better to have them become amune to each other before treatment ends rather than treat then place all back together

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well im very sad B) so i have come to you guys and your expert advice

not being rude to the pet type breeders on here

but im really wanting answers from all you show breeders as this regards my show stock not my pet stock

i was told by a few club members that my birds would die if i medicate them in these hot days

now i don't really believe it but then they have been breeding for years show birds and me ...well

i just started this year show birds

i thought i knew what i was doing i thought i was ready for show stock but maybe i was wrong :)

 

the reason given to me was that the birds drink more and their for can od on medication :huh::( (my thoughts) but really can they :huh:

i emailed vet and expressed my disapointment with the service and my concern for what the few members had said

my reply was not much

here it is

 

Hello Leeia,

 

 

 

Unfortunately the laboratory seems to be held up with the Christmas break, although I would have expected results by now. I have emailed them today to find out when the results will be back. Unfortunately this is beyond our control. If you don’t think the Doxy is helping, then I would stop this medication until we have the results back.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

now....i would have thought she could have just said something reashuring but she did not this makes me wonder if these few members were right ????

 

here is what i wrote to her

 

 

 

Hello I was wondering if you heard back any news

 

Im getting quiet disheartened that I haven’t heard back

 

 

 

How long do results normally take as its been long wait I was told you guys were the best why I traveled so far.

 

could you please let me know if I can stop treatment of doxy or not as birds looking run down and drab they need a boost of some sort im scared im going to kill them I was told I shouldn’t be medicating birds in this heat as they drink a lot and can overdose if this is true I do not know but was some club members who said this to me

 

Thank you

 

Leeia fox

 

 

 

so please please please

 

what would you show breeders do in my situation i have lost no more birds and they have been being treated for since the 21 of december

 

imput from you guys is really needed and would be very apreshiated please dont hesate to reply to me with your oppinions and thoughts i am happy to answer any thing you may need to know to help you help me what to decide to do :) thanks n advance.... gb :P

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well im very sad B) so i have come to you guys and your expert advice

not being rude to the pet type breeders on here

but im really wanting answers from all you show breeders as this regards my show stock not my pet stock

i was told by a few club members that my birds would die if i medicate them in these hot days

now i don't really believe it but then they have been breeding for years show birds and me ...well

i just started this year show birds

i thought i knew what i was doing i thought i was ready for show stock but maybe i was wrong :)

 

the reason given to me was that the birds drink more and their for can od on medication :huh::( (my thoughts) but really can they :huh:

i emailed vet and expressed my disapointment with the service and my concern for what the few members had said

my reply was not much

here it is

 

Hello Leeia,

 

 

 

Unfortunately the laboratory seems to be held up with the Christmas break, although I would have expected results by now. I have emailed them today to find out when the results will be back. Unfortunately this is beyond our control. If you don't think the Doxy is helping, then I would stop this medication until we have the results back.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

now....i would have thought she could have just said something reashuring but she did not this makes me wonder if these few members were right ????

 

here is what i wrote to her

 

 

 

Hello I was wondering if you heard back any news

 

Im getting quiet disheartened that I haven't heard back

 

 

 

How long do results normally take as its been long wait I was told you guys were the best why I traveled so far.

 

could you please let me know if I can stop treatment of doxy or not as birds looking run down and drab they need a boost of some sort im scared im going to kill them I was told I shouldn't be medicating birds in this heat as they drink a lot and can overdose if this is true I do not know but was some club members who said this to me

 

Thank you

 

Leeia fox

 

 

 

so please please please

 

what would you show breeders do in my situation i have lost no more birds and they have been being treated for since the 21 of december

 

imput from you guys is really needed and would be very apreshiated please dont hesate to reply to me with your oppinions and thoughts i am happy to answer any thing you may need to know to help you help me what to decide to do :) thanks n advance.... gb :)

It is true and we have been reminded, and only recently at that, that birds do drink more in the heat and we should be careful when administering medication.

 

Also it is worth remembering that when administering Doxy we are reminded that IF our birds are looking down after a few days of treatment we SHOULD stop the doxy treatment.

 

Hope that helps. :P

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well im very sad :( so i have come to you guys and your expert advice

not being rude to the pet type breeders on here

but im really wanting answers from all you show breeders as this regards my show stock not my pet stock

i was told by a few club members that my birds would die if i medicate them in these hot days

now i don't really believe it but then they have been breeding for years show birds and me ...well

i just started this year show birds

i thought i knew what i was doing i thought i was ready for show stock but maybe i was wrong :(

 

the reason given to me was that the birds drink more and their for can od on medication :rolleyes:;) (my thoughts) but really can they :question:

i emailed vet and expressed my disapointment with the service and my concern for what the few members had said

my reply was not much

here it is

 

Hello Leeia,

 

 

 

Unfortunately the laboratory seems to be held up with the Christmas break, although I would have expected results by now. I have emailed them today to find out when the results will be back. Unfortunately this is beyond our control. If you don't think the Doxy is helping, then I would stop this medication until we have the results back.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

now....i would have thought she could have just said something reashuring but she did not this makes me wonder if these few members were right ????

 

here is what i wrote to her

 

 

 

Hello I was wondering if you heard back any news

 

Im getting quiet disheartened that I haven't heard back

 

 

 

How long do results normally take as its been long wait I was told you guys were the best why I traveled so far.

 

could you please let me know if I can stop treatment of doxy or not as birds looking run down and drab they need a boost of some sort im scared im going to kill them I was told I shouldn't be medicating birds in this heat as they drink a lot and can overdose if this is true I do not know but was some club members who said this to me

 

Thank you

 

Leeia fox

 

 

 

so please please please

 

what would you show breeders do in my situation i have lost no more birds and they have been being treated for since the 21 of december

 

imput from you guys is really needed and would be very apreshiated please dont hesate to reply to me with your oppinions and thoughts i am happy to answer any thing you may need to know to help you help me what to decide to do :raincloud: thanks n advance.... gb B)

It is true and we have been reminded, and only recently at that, that birds do drink more in the heat and we should be careful when administering medication.

 

Also it is worth remembering that when administering Doxy we are reminded that IF our birds are looking down after a few days of treatment we SHOULD stop the doxy treatment.

 

Hope that helps. :)

 

 

okay so you think stop it i will post some pics of birds taken today and mabe that will help you guys to gide me

 

i was never told to stop treatment if birds look **** i was told it must mean that they have parra whatever it is (sory kaz )

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It is true and we have been reminded, and only recently at that, that birds do drink more in the heat and we should be careful when administering medication.

 

Also it is worth remembering that when administering Doxy we are reminded that IF our birds are looking down after a few days of treatment we SHOULD stop the doxy treatment.

 

Hope that helps. :raincloud:

okay so you think stop it i will post some pics of birds taken today and mabe that will help you guys to gide me

 

i was never told to stop treatment if birds look **** i was told it must mean that they have parra whatever it is (sory kaz )

Well I am sure I'll be corrected if anyone disagrees :question: But NO, I am quite sure about this. :rolleyes:

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GB this piece is from Rob Marshall maybe this will help

Pre-Breeding Cleansing Programme

 

Doxycycline hydrochloride treatment in flocks with Psittacosis is very effective in improving breeding performance. “Self diagnosis” of a Psittacosis problem is possible by treating with doxycycline hydrochloride and then monitoring the response of the flock to the medicine. If the birds brighten up noticeably within two days, then a Psittacosis problem exists. When there is no Psittacosis problem, the medicine will depress your birds within two days and the droppings will become large, watery and turn green.

 

Pre-Breeding Treatment for Aviaries with Psittacosis

 

Continue with a doxycycline hydrochloride treatment until the droppings enlarge, become watery and turn green. In aviaries with a severe infection, this may be as long as 45 days. To maintain a high fitness level during the treatment, give high energy food, enriched with vitamins and minerals (Turbobooster, an energy supplement and Fvite) daily. Minerals can only be added when Megamix is mixed with the doxycycline hydrochloride. Scrape and disinfect the aviary once a week during the treatment. Check the dropping health visually and look at the vitality, feather colour and sheen, vent cleanliness, cere colour and eyes of the aviary birds. Following the doxycycline hydrochloride, use a water cleanser in the water for two days.

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okay so now what

some of my birds had egg bumb like poos

some pissed out water some did not some got caked **** some were just fluffed and crappy

this has been the whole way through treatment

their is alot of sneezing going on from alot of my birds the last few days especially

so ....

to stop or not to stop

i just returned all birds to aviry two days ago as they were all in holding cages a few birds per cage 8 birds per unit around give or take

the floors were wire so the poo went through so as they could not get to it

some birds look okay others look like crud

i guess i think im going to take some pics tomorrow as i tryed just then but dust has fallen so they very bad

i guess one more day cant harm them to much

my poor babys

if its anything to go on all the chicks that hatched are fine and all bar a few hatched TWO to be exact

this was heat related i belive and being last eggs from large clutches

 

anymore opinions ????

 

splat thank you for that

the vet said they should pick up after few days but they have stayed reasonably the same only some are quiet unhappy looking :raincloud: and alot are sneezing and that little chep chip chip noise you get when they unwell u know the three little chep x sneezes

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okay so now what

some of my birds had egg bumb like poos

some pissed out water some did not some got caked **** some were just fluffed and crappy

this has been the whole way through treatment

their is alot of sneezing going on from alot of my birds the last few days especially

so ....

to stop or not to stop

i just returned all birds to aviry two days ago as they were all in holding cages a few birds per cage 8 birds per unit around give or take

the floors were wire so the poo went through so as they could not get to it

some birds look okay others look like crud

i guess i think im going to take some pics tomorrow as i tryed just then but dust has fallen so they very bad

i guess one more day cant harm them to much

my poor babys

if its anything to go on all the chicks that hatched are fine and all bar a few hatched TWO to be exact

this was heat related i belive and being last eggs from large clutches

 

anymore opinions ????

 

splat thank you for that

the vet said they should pick up after few days but they have stayed reasonably the same only some are quiet unhappy looking :question: and alot are sneezing and that little chep chip chip noise you get when they unwell u know the three little chep x sneezes

Look, it is really hard to advise you well when we cannot see them and there is no vet diagnosis :rolleyes:

 

But, yes I would stop the Doxy treatment. ;)

 

"Chep x sneezes" ? Doesn't sound too good. It could be a number of things I'm afraid .... and let us not forget that you have recently had a big swing in temperature from extremely hot to quite cool ... :raincloud:

 

If I were you I would not beat around the bush any more and take a couple into your vet asap for a check up. :(

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Have consulted the very best on your behalf................he says STOP RIGHT NOW

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thanks kaz i will i will take water out tonight so they can all have some nice freash water tomorrow

and then mabe the next day some pro bos -_-what ya recon sound good

Edited by GenericBlue

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So GB are their droppings like Rob said If the birds brighten up noticeably within two days, then a Psittacosis problem exists. When there is no Psittacosis problem, the medicine will depress your birds within two days and the droppings will become large, watery and turn green..

 

I would ring the vet and tell them that the birds look worse and yes they do drink heaps more on really hot days.

 

Good luck GB it doesn't sound good. I hope all goes well for you.

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thanks kaz i will i will take water out tonight so they can all have some nice freash water tomorrow

and then mabe the next day some pro bos -_-what ya recon sound good

Yes..........advice I have been given as sent by PM to you is...........they are being treated for the wrong thing. Stop now or you will overdose them. They need some sulpha meds for the ones who are having poop issues.

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thanks kaz i will i will take water out tonight so they can all have some nice freash water tomorrow

and then mabe the next day some pro bos -_-what ya recon sound good

Yes..........advice I have been given as sent by PM to you is...........they are being treated for the wrong thing. Stop now or you will overdose them. They need some sulpha meds for the ones who are having poop issues.

 

okay i will stop and take advice

after all if i lose more then i will just have to wait awhile and then start again when i feel more set up and ready

i did jump into it all with my head screwed on but i must admit i got things **** about

birds first set up getting compleated around them '

m i guess its really my own fault

 

im just going to let fate take its place but i felt from start it was not parra what ever it fn is ,,,

i just been chassing my tail really for months now

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GB I find your post a little confuseing,

up until today.you was saying your birds were okay.

now you are saying, they are not(some)well.

I will say it again,not only you GB,but others,

you are over medicating.If you have to use all

these,treatments,there is something wrong.

In my club,they stoped all these treatment thing,

years ago & only treat on a need be but watch

there birds,very closely & if some thing is looking

a bit off colour,they may treat it or to the bin.

I myself have not treated my birds,for 6 years for anything,

other then worm them twice a year & I could count on one hand

any birds that have died.I do put Apple Cider Vinagar in there water

for 3 days a week, they get no soaked food * only soft food in the breeding season.

Silver beet once a week,breeders & molting aid in there seed,in the season.

I moved 20 of last seasons birds from one flight to another today & I culled one bird

for a wing feather problem & the rest were in good condition.

Its the same with Quantine,if I buy a bird it goes sraight in to a breeding box & wormed & nothing else,execpt

one of my own birds in the cage with it for 3 to 6 months & they usely breed me a round or 2 of young ones.

There is 4 of us breeders,we meet at one of our places,each Thursday & we decuss,the bird world & seeing *** Iam the only one with a computer, I tell them of the laughs of the week I have seen on the forum,with all this meds the birds,do not build up any amunitys, end of story.+

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