The Definitive Meat Protein Debate

[Dave_McMinn 0]

Hey Dave I guess if your stuck and starving I reckon one would eat just about anything.

 

I hope I never have to find out, but I hope that my morals would stop me from trying it!!!

[renee 0]

Well I turn my back for a second and the debate degenerates into contemplating Mad Cow disease and the moralistic musings of a potential starvation candidate

 

 

So correct me if I am wrong - but if I were to feed raw meat to my budgies, probably mince meat, and only leave it available for say 10 mins in the cool of the evenings, wouldn't that nullify the risks of salmonella, e coli and the like?

 

:question:

[GenericBlue 0]

no you get thread worm and stuff too

and the dunnie budgies(blow flys) would be around quicker than you could guess

 

ren i say just feed them the bones from all your roasts or t bones even then you need to be whatching as i said flys just think of own barbies :question: who gets more snags the flys or you

[Finnie 0]

Yeah, it's a lot different for a wild animal to eat something it killed (or found) than the domestic meat sources we have available to us.

 

Even aside from potential diseases and parasites, there are antibiotics and hormones added.

 

And the mad cow example just goes to show how important it is not to feed contaminated feed, whether you're feeding livestock or petstock.

 

So in a way, Renee, it's all still on topic. (Except for Dave's morals... )

[GenericBlue 0]

(Except for Dave's morals... )

lol

thats funny as

i can just see dave sitting with car door open on leg in car one out fighting with himself :rofl: :rofl:

(written in thought caption)

morals morals i have morals

food is a secondary morals first lol

 

 

all though where i sit im with you dave toasted road kill bbq or other mmmmmmmmmmmmm i think id starve

 

 

as far as feeding birds raw meat its not even an option that should be getting discussed in my veiw

Edited December 5, 2009 by GenericBlue

[the pie 0]

I can get you some freerange, nothing added, low fat mince Renee :rofl: Just gotta wait til I come down

 

There are 2 stages most 'scavengers' will eat roadkill- most of the time its fresh meat, killed within the day or so. After that it goes through its breaking down stage (the stinky stage) this is bacteria breaking down the muscle fibres and generally being no good for much.

The last stage is the 'jerky' stage, lack of fresh roadkill will have animals eating this.

You see birds (ie crows, maggies and others) hanging around the carcass in all stages but they are mostly eating the huge amount of maggots and bugs the carcass is producing at a HUGE rate.

 

I havent had problems with hens attacking chicks while feeding meatmeat mixed with soft food, the only times Ive had hens attack chicks was when I was away and they were only getting egg or vegies. I was warned by one of those breeders quite a while ago and kept an eye on it

I do know what goes into it, a good friend of mine used to make it at his employment. I got over being squirmy along time ago.

 

Not alot of farmed meat gets the antibiotics and hormones fed to it, in fact in any of the red meat IVe had anything to do with- sheep cattle and goats- apart from the routine lice and worming they are paddock kept.

Renee- most butchers are on a tight ship when it comes to what they add to their meat in the packet, they were banned from using the bad stuff years ago, I'll find out what they use now (mostly)

[the pie 0]

Does the fact that a wild bird will burn off excess protein and energy make a difference to us feeding our cage birds that rarely break a sweat?

 

In horses too much protein early in life while growing causes the bone to grow quicker than the tendons giving hoof problems, lower limb problems, also in older horses swelling in the feet causing restricted blood flow.

Protein is good for bulking up an animal, as long as your burning off the excess sugar it creates

Some horses that didnt burn it off showed it in temperament changes, physical changes and illness.

 

Budgies dont seem to have shown any symptoms with over feeding with proteins yet, different digestion?? Or are those cranky hens being fed meat protein, just not handling the excess they are being fed, taking it out on the nearest thing at hand, chicks?

 

As with anything- all in moderation

Edited December 6, 2009 by the pie

[**KAZ** 0]

Does the fact that a wild bird will burn off excess protein and energy make a difference to us feeding our cage birds that rarely break a sweat?

 

In horses too much protein early in life while growing causes the bone to grow quicker than the tendons giving hoof problems, lower limb problems, also in older horses swelling in the feet causing restricted blood flow.

Protein is good for bulking up an animal, as long as your burning off the excess sugar it creates

Some horses that didnt burn it off showed it in temperament changes, physical changes and illness.

 

Budgies dont seem to have shown any symptoms with over feeding with proteins yet, different digestion?? Or are those cranky hens being fed meat protein, just not handling the excess they are being fed, taking it out on the nearest thing at hand, chicks?

 

As with anything- all in moderation

Dunno about hens taking it out on chicks as I have yet to put meat protein into practice apart from the odd chicken carcass ....and I havent heard any stories from those that do. At this point pure guesswork.

Edited December 6, 2009 by KAZ

[the pie 0]

Have you not used meat meal? I was going on what H said a few years back to me and what was said the same on the other forum?

Just wondering if it was why some hens got cranky on it and some didnt- same as the horses, some it affects temperament, others physically.

I add a bit of meatmeal in my softfood- to the crushed eggs but Ive never seen the problem in my flock.

 

Youve had my brain working tonight- thinking back to the racehorse and even ponyclub days :rofl:

[Dave_McMinn 0]

my morals are fine thank you :rofl:

[**KAZ** 0]

Have you not used meat meal?

No.

[nubbly5 0]

I am concerned that unless you buy Free Range chickens you may unwittingly be feeding your budgies the same steroids that commercial farms use to promote rapid growth in the pursuit of profits. :rofl:

 

Having worked in the agricultural industry for over 15 years much of that time working with broiler chickens I can categorically say there are NO STERIODS used in broiler chicken production. Yes antibiotics are sometimes used when illness strikes BUT WITHOLDING PERIODS are strickly adhered to.

 

Still even though so many people still believe this rubbish, chicken remains the highest consumed protein for people - amazingly hypocritical aren't we!

 

My little rant.

[renee 0]

I am concerned that unless you buy Free Range chickens you may unwittingly be feeding your budgies the same steroids that commercial farms use to promote rapid growth in the pursuit of profits. :rofl:

 

Having worked in the agricultural industry for over 15 years much of that time working with broiler chickens I can categorically say there are NO STERIODS used in broiler chicken production. Yes antibiotics are sometimes used when illness strikes BUT WITHOLDING PERIODS are strickly adhered to.

 

Still even though so many people still believe this rubbish, chicken remains the highest consumed protein for people - amazingly hypocritical aren't we!

 

My little rant.

Fair enough, thanks for putting the record straight.

 

So do your budgies get meat protein Nubbly and if so in what form ? (interesting how you avoided the obvious here - he,he,he)

[nubbly5 0]

No but then my budgies rarely get soft food, sometimes they do but only when I'm home. I'm away so much and rely on Grant's good will to keep my birds alive so I have had to keep it a simple as possible.

 

They tend to get treats when I am home and this varies from fruit & veges, to soaked seeds to parrot mix. Whatever I have around or have time to do.

 

I did try meat meal but found that the birds did not readily accept the soft food with it in, but then it may have been a "new" thing and if I started now with my babies it might be better.

 

I think there is some good arguement for it but we really are only guessing at the amino acid profile of the diets we feed our birds. Also I would hazzard a guess that there really has been little to no work done on the nutrient requirements of our modern birds to see exactly how they might differ to the original birds - so it's all a big guess in my opinion.

[renee 0]

No but then my budgies rarely get soft food, sometimes they do but only when I'm home. I'm away so much and rely on Grant's good will to keep my birds alive so I have had to keep it a simple as possible.

 

They tend to get treats when I am home and this varies from fruit & veges, to soaked seeds to parrot mix. Whatever I have around or have time to do.

 

I did try meat meal but found that the birds did not readily accept the soft food with it in, but then it may have been a "new" thing and if I started now with my babies it might be better.

 

I think there is some good arguement for it but we really are only guessing at the amino acid profile of the diets we feed our birds. Also I would hazzard a guess that there really has been little to no work done on the nutrient requirements of our modern birds to see exactly how they might differ to the original birds - so it's all a big guess in my opinion.

Thank You Nubbly for your input!

[nubbly5 0]

Recently tried chicken carcass in the flights. Birds didn't really choose to eat it but the ANTS did. Not sure that it's worth the effort for me if I can barley leave it out for a couple of hours, have the birds not really like it much and then just attract a whole neighbourhood of ants. The eggs ALA Gary Armstrong remain the favourite! Boil, pick a little hole in the egg, put egg whole into flight and watch budgies have fun! I know that's not strickly meat protien but then that's the best I'm going to do.

[**KAZ** 0]

Recently tried chicken carcass in the flights. Birds didn't really choose to eat it but the ANTS did. Not sure that it's worth the effort for me if I can barley leave it out for a couple of hours, have the birds not really like it much and then just attract a whole neighbourhood of ants. The eggs ALA Gary Armstrong remain the favourite! Boil, pick a little hole in the egg, put egg whole into flight and watch budgies have fun! I know that's not strickly meat protien but then that's the best I'm going to do.

Cec was doing the same thing as you do with the egg but he was putting lemons in the aviary with just a bit taken out. He said it took a day to have it all eaten and gone

[splat 0]

I put chicken, turkey and duck carcesses in sometimes and the babies go nuts over it but I also get nubblys problem rotten ants so that puts me off too. AS for lemon and orange they all go for that and there is never any left the next day.

[nubbly5 0]

Lemons! I use oranges but who would have thought that budgies like lemons!!! I guess they can't screw up their beaks

[**KAZ** 0]

Lemons! I use oranges but who would have thought that budgies like lemons!!! I guess they can't screw up their beaks

Well. birds can eat chillies too without feeling the heat so I guess lemons works too

[nubbly5 0]

Cool!!! I just snuck off with Grant's Carona Lemons to try....... snh snh snh!

[splat 0]

I actually didn't think they would even try them but yep they go for it they probably taste a lot better than some of the additives we give them

[Richo 0]

Hi all, bird watching last weekend at my pal's farm, he told me the budgies were loving it when the puddles were largest, he seemed to think the budgies are there for the bugs and small flying insects.[thats meat huh?] Got me thinking maybe budgies would go for those insects that hover around a piece of fruit left out? Not sure about the decaying fruit in their diet but that would be easily solved using a flat dish containing fruit covered with bird wire. Waddaya reckon?

[renee 0]

Hi all, bird watching last weekend at my pal's farm, he told me the budgies were loving it when the puddles were largest, he seemed to think the budgies are there for the bugs and small flying insects.[thats meat huh?] Got me thinking maybe budgies would go for those insects that hover around a piece of fruit left out? Not sure about the decaying fruit in their diet but that would be easily solved using a flat dish containing fruit covered with bird wire. Waddaya reckon?

 

Go for it and tell us how it goes!

[**KAZ** 0]

Hi all, bird watching last weekend at my pal's farm, he told me the budgies were loving it when the puddles were largest, he seemed to think the budgies are there for the bugs and small flying insects.[thats meat huh?] Got me thinking maybe budgies would go for those insects that hover around a piece of fruit left out? Not sure about the decaying fruit in their diet but that would be easily solved using a flat dish containing fruit covered with bird wire. Waddaya reckon?

 

Go for it and tell us how it goes!

One way to tease a budgie