Assistance/opinions On Culling

[Linda_S 0]

Hi wanting some advice/opinions on doing a cull of some of my birds.

I'm post pics of my entire flock here and will let you know what I think. If you think I'm planning on culling something that could add positive attributes to my flock or think I'm keeping something I don't really need to or could do without please let me know.

 

Greys (I was planning on using these for an Albino line as well as any other areas that they could be of use in)

 

Grey/Albino Brothers from WA. Planned founders of Albino line.

 

Shaggy (on right in above picture, He seems the better of the two to me)

 

Scooby (on left above)

 

 

Grey/Albino Cock (Planning on Culling, I think the bros are better birds)

 

 

HensNormal Grey hen I got with brothers from WA pictured with a bro for comparison. (Will be retireing this girl after I breed her)

 

Close up

 

 

Left WA grey for comparison. Right Opaline Grey from BudgieBuyer of this forum.

 

Close up (Thought she had good blow but she does sit a little to straight on the perch)

 

Wa Grey hen from above picture with Opaline Grey from Local breeder.

 

Local Breeders hen close up

 

 

WA with an 09 bred grey normal I purchased from BudgieBuyer (She's a fairly long and big bird in my opinion and I think she'll improve as she matures)

 

 

Couldn't get a more recent close up of this hen so here's one from when I 1st got her.

 

Old pics, I'll get more recent pics of her and her mate when their chicks have fledged.Albino Hen (mother of my Albino Chicks from my journal)

 

 

Pictured with Sky blue Opaline/Albino (father of Chicks)

 

Edited December 3, 2009 by Linda_S

[renee 0]

okay Well I will come right out and say that you cannot ask anyone to advise you on culling anymore than you can expect anyone to do your pairings for you.

 

For one thing photos can be very misleading.

 

For another you may decide to keep an old hen because you intend to use her as a foster or another small cock bird because he consistently throws much better than himself.

 

Only YOU know your birds and their history with regards to health and breeding habits.

 

Perhaps this is a round-about way of generating interest in your birds ahead of sales, and if that is the case - well good luck to you.

[Linda_S 0]

Not trying to generate interest in sales. I'm new to show breeding and would like advice, I think I may have over purchased. I realise that you cannot tell as much from photos as you can in person but was hoping for a 2nd opinion that I could use for assistance in my 1st ever 'culling' of birds. I did not mean this post to come across as a pre sales pitch. Also if unexperienced show bird breeders didn't get any advice on things like pairing and culling then I'd say we'd probably stray from the mark a lot more then if we had the advice of seasoned veterans

Edited December 3, 2009 by Linda_S

[macka 0]

The easy way to to this Linda,is to

join a club & take your birds to the club.

The experince breeders will help you sort out

your birds,for you.As has been said it is hard to

cull just loooking at pictures.

[shannon bird breeder 0]

if you ask me this this my fist year and i am not culling i have sold sume but not culling you will fine later on why did i sell that bird it was a good bird what if you keep a few good cock birds what if 1 or 2 die that more money will have to go get birds size that you gust sold

[Linda_S 0]

I am a member of a club but as I need to stay away from home during the week for work and my branch meetings are during the week it makes it difficult for me to socialise with my fellow branch members (don't worry I leave my boyfriend strict instuctions as to the birds and he's been very helpful even though he doesn't like show budgies and prefers the pair of bush budgies I brought for him a few weeks ago).

Our Christmas party is this Sunday though and they're putting on a kind of unofficial show so I am planning on taking some of my birds so I can get an idea of where I stand and I'll be able to get to know a few members. I'm only planning on taking the birds I think of as my better birds though not all of them. I don't really like the idea of packing them all up and carting them around.

Given the advice I've gotten from posting this topic I suppose I won't cull anyone just yet until I've at least tried them once to see what they produce. I was just hoping on being able to cut down on a few numbers, guess I'll have to pester my boyfriend to get a move on with building a few more aviaries instead Fine by me.

Guess there's no need to post the rest of the flock in this topic then. Thanks to all for your advice.

Edited December 3, 2009 by KAZ

[GenericBlue 0]

I am a member of a club but as I need to stay away from home during the week for work and my branch meetings are during the week it makes it difficult for me to socialise with my fellow branch members (don't worry I leave my boyfriend strict instuctions as to the birds and he's been very helpful even though he doesn't like show budgies and proffers the pair of bush budgies I brought for him a few weeks ago).

Our Christmas party is this Sunday though and they're putting on a kind of unofficial show so I am planning on taking some of my birds so I can get an idea of where I stand and I'll be able to get to know a few members. I'm only planning on taking the birds I think of as my better birds though not all of them. I don't really like the idea of packing them all up and carting them around.

Given the advice I've gotten from posting this topic I suppose I won't cull anyone just yet until I've at least tried them once to see what they produce. I was just hoping on being able to cut down on a few numbers, guess I'll have to pester my boyfriend to get a move on with building a few more aviaries instead Fine by me.

Guess there's no need to post the rest of the flock in this topic then. Thanks to all for your advice.

 

hay mate

just been where you are its really hard specially when a lot of the time members will not give a accurate account on the birds you have

i say when starting you need to start some where

 

your albino pair the hen and cock have given you some nice bubbys i belive you should keep your grey / albino as he has a nice long tail i find albinos impress more with a long tail

 

i like your two opaline hens i dont understand what you mean by one sits to high on pertch

i like your grey from local breeder and i think the hen your going to retire is mabe the one i would give up but then put with your split albino you have another set of chicks half bro sisters to work with and him being a nice looking bird will sit her up a bit as i think she is to squashed down no stance what so ever

 

if thats your whole flock then you dont need to cull

if you have other birds you need to look at the best bird you have in flock and go from their

but remember all birds need some veriation to put the peacies of puzzle together

you need to know what look your going for

not whats on the bench

but if you want to adhire to the bench standed and not have your own look then cull to that standed

 

i got a member of a diffrent club help me

ive had at least 5 members around and to be honest the 2 members from the other clubs were the only ones whom actually gave honest account and opinion and didnt want to take birds off my hands for me

(watch that line its a good one ) anyway i belive if you look in aviry and you dont tell yourself

oh how beautiful are you to all the birds everytime

then thats the one to go but untill u know what your looking for dont cull

Edited December 3, 2009 by GenericBlue

[Linda_S 0]

Thanks GB.

 

The Opaline I got from Sydney I think perches like straight up and down not much of an angle to her stance.... if that makes sense.

 

I'm not sure which /Albino Cock your talking about to pair with the retiring hen though? Since you mentioned half brothers and sister I'm guessing the Blue one?

 

I was thinking of pairing them like this

 

1st round

 

Shaggy - WA grey (I thought that since these birds are from the same breeder they might produce better birds if paired together)

 

Scooby - Sydney Opaline

 

2nd round

 

Shaggy - Local breeder hen

 

Scooby - Wa Grey (same reasoning as before)

 

I wasn't going to use long tail as I was considering culling him.

 

Also I was going to let the Blue and the Albino have another round as I think their chicks are okay and don't show a blue sheen at this stage plus they'll give me more Albinos to pair with my grey/albino cocks next year. If they have more hens

 

Now maybe I'm thinking I should use long tail as well...

 

Long tail - WA hen

 

Shaggy - Local breeder

 

Scooby - Sydney opaline

 

??????

 

I have been a little worried about people telling me to cull a bird because they want it....

 

This isn't all my flock just my grey (normals & opaline), Albinos and /Albinos. I was planning on posting my flock in stages Greys, Blues, Greens... etc.... I think I have 36 birds all together 39 with the bubs.

 

Thanks again GB

[GenericBlue 0]

okay well i would keep long tail

id put him with your albino hen next year

 

this year i would put him with the straight sitting opaline hen

 

she is nice bird dont get rid of her on stance

a tall of the perch bird is good and you correct it by pouting her with a bird with little or less stance

i would put her with long tail as you will get more greys for your bino breeding maybe double grey if lucky

 

also he has tight sitting wings where hers are tad losser so this will fix this she has nice hight in blow he has a nicer tighter softer looking feather and mask is not long or short just she will improve that area i belive they both nice long birds and she got a bigger head in picture so will fix this i think some good chicks out of them two

also scooby with this hen would be lovley

in the end its all about fun and experimenting

we are but beginners mate so... plenty of years to put a good bird on show bench first get a grasp of how to mix match you birds to fix lesser qualitys then when learnt that

cull then get in good birds to play with

this is what i have done and are doing

[nubbly5 0]

okay Linda

 

I'll plonk in some comments but what Renee said is correct, photo's can be difficult to assess and make our comments based wholey and soley on what we see here but seeing a bird in the flesh is sometimes quite different.

 

And as other have stated do you NEED to cull down. If not then breed a few and then do a cull based on having new birds to replace the culls with.

 

So okay, some comments to be found by the pictures.....

 

Having just done the comments I wanted to mention a couple of things.

 

Most of the birds shown here are good enough quality to go along with apart from a couple of the cocks. Personally I would never write off hens that even MIGHT be useful and most of the girls you have shown here I would personally keep.

 

It LOOKS to me (and this is just from photo's mind so might not be a true assessment) that you need some length in your stud. The birds you have here are nice but many of them sit heavily and do not stand off the perch to any degree (this is not a terrible thing but you will need more length to go on with).

 

I would suggest you try to get to at least a few shows with your birds to see where you are at and what you need and that will help drive what you cull too.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hi wanting some advice/opinions on doing a cull of some of my birds.

I'm post pics of my entire flock here and will let you know what I think. If you think I'm planning on culling something that could add positive attributes to my flock or think I'm keeping something I don't really need to or could do without please let me know.

 

Greys (I was planning on using these for an Albino line as well as any other areas that they could be of use in)

 

Grey/Albino Brothers from WA. Planned founders of Albino line.

 

Shaggy (on right in above picture, He seems the better of the two to me) He seems better to me too. You need size in your flock as well as feather.

 

Scooby (on left above) For me Scooby is VERY narrow above the cere, that with him also being smaller - BUT it really depends on where he has come from. If he has been bred from C&B Gearings grey stock (if he has a C&B ring on) then what's behind him genetically is bound to be better than him anyway and these birds are then GOLD as they tend to breed way better than themselves.

 

 

Grey/Albino Cock (Planning on Culling, I think the bros are better birds) It would be a close run thing between this bird and Scooby but thats without comparing the 2 together.

 

 

HensNormal Grey hen I got with brothers from WA pictured with a bro for comparison. (Will be retireing this girl after I breed her) If there is any advise I can give - HANG ONTO HENS. You will need more hens than cocks in your stud. If this girl is even average compared to your stud, hang onto her until you have more than enough hens (I TRY and keep 1/2 then number of hens again compared to cocks but that doesn't always work out).

 

Close up

 

 

Left WA grey for comparison. Right Opaline Grey from BudgieBuyer of this forum.

 

Close up (Thought she had good blow but she does sit a little to straight on the perch) NO this is a NICE hen and birds that stand up well off the perch like her are what you want to improve deportment and give the impression of length. What you don't want is the tall straight TUBULAR birds, whereas she has a nice carrot shape with a really nice blow and good shoulder - a keeper for me but I would watch the dropped wings (unless that's just the photo) and make sure I pair her with a nice tight winged cock.

 

Wa Grey hen from above picture with Opaline Grey from Local breeder.

 

Local Breeders hen close up Only an average hen but as I said before you need to think of your first string hens and then backups that you can use if you need to.

 

 

WA with an 09 bred grey normal I purchased from BudgieBuyer (She's a fairly long and big bird in my opinion and I think she'll improve as she matures) Nice and yes she may well improve.

 

 

Couldn't get a more recent close up of this hen so here's one from when I 1st got her.

 

Old pics, I'll get more recent pics of her and her mate when their chicks have fledged.Albino Hen (mother of my Albino Chicks from my journal) Nice.

 

 

Pictured with Sky blue Opaline/Albino (father of Chicks)

 

[Linda_S 0]

These comments are all very helpful thank you all so much, it really helps me to assess my birds and birds in general.

 

I might end up posting the rest of my flock after all, although I know there is only so much you can see from a picture your comments have helped me heaps with things that I didn't even know what they looked like ie shoulder, I've heard about birds having shoulders but didn't really know the difference between good/bad or so so....

 

Scooby is Shaggys brother from the same nest, I got them from Carl Adler.

 

and the blowy opaline grey does drop her wings it's not just the picture.

Thanks all

[Linda_S 0]

Other Greys (aquired from local branch)

 

Grey Spangle Cock

 

 

 

Yellow Face Grey Cinnamon Hen

 

 

 

Other Blue Series Birds

 

Cobalt Dominant Pied Hen 09

 

Edited December 4, 2009 by Linda_S

[renee 0]

These comments are all very helpful thank you all so much, it really helps me to assess my birds and birds in general.

 

I might end up posting the rest of my flock after all, although I know there is only so much you can see from a picture your comments have helped me heaps with things that I didn't even know what they looked like ie shoulder, I've heard about birds having shoulders but didn't really know the difference between good/bad or so so....

Your club members would help you even more if you found the time to take your birds along to show them.

 

Many people seem to think that showing birds is all about winning prizes, they are mistaken.

 

In the early years I took my birds along to be assessed (good points/bad points) and when I was unsure about a bird's variety. It is at shows that you build valuable relationships with other "budgie nuts" and hear about their experiences.

 

I will give you an example: Just last week I took what was in my eyes a beautiful Dark Green UBC (unbroken cap: 2 month old chick) to the MBC Show. He is a sibling to the one that took out Best UBC at the SWBC Show and featured in the photos I took in the Best In Show thread. He was judged to be indeed a beautiful chick BUT it was pointed out that it had "shark fins", ie his flights were bunched below its shoulder. THIS is an undesirable fault. Now no one would have picked it the photos I took and I myself was unaware of it. THAT is why we SHOW birds! Now I know this I will keep an eye on it as it develops and see whether this fault corrects itself or not.

 

So if you are indeed a beginner Show Budgie Breeder eager to learn and progress in this endeavor then you need to go to shows.

Edited December 4, 2009 by renee

[Linda_S 0]

I thought you were only meant to show birds you bred yourself? I don't have any birds I've bred apart from the Albinos in my breeding journal that haven't fledged yet. I am taking a few birds to the for fun/unofficial show that my club is having at their Christmas Party.

[renee 0]

I thought you were only meant to show birds you bred yourself? I don't have any birds I've bred apart from the Albinos in my breeding journal that haven't fledged yet. I am taking a few birds to the for fun/unofficial show that my club is having at their Christmas Party.

 

You are correct, everywhere else but WA you can only enter your own bred birds into a show. BUT that doesn't need to stop you from gathering up some birds and getting other members to appraise them in an unofficial way. Who knows you may hit it off with a more experienced member who will offer to come to your place and help you out.

 

You need a mentor, someone on the ground that is more experienced than you who will guide you.

 

Here is the West a few of us Novices sing the praises of Gary Armstrong precisely because in those early stages he has gone out of his way to help us out - not to mention he is a top bloke. Cec Gearing is another who has always been very supportive.

 

Who do you have?

[Linda_S 0]

I have you guys

 

Also I am getting to know the secretary of my local branch (I have only been a member for 2 weeks) he's given me a bit of advice and I'm hoping to meet more people at the Christmas party. I also met Joe Elias today as he lives close to where I stay when I'm working so although I can't really get him to come over and have a look at my birds I can pop in for a chat and ask him questions as well as look at his beautiful birds

 

 

Greywing Cock (pet shop buy)

 

 

 

Mauve Opaline Hen 09

 

 

Yellow Face Sky Blue Hen

 

 

 

Sky Blue Normal Hen

 

 

[Dave_McMinn 0]

I agree with what was said before, and I would not be cullng any hens.

[**KAZ** 0]

Mauve Opaline Hen 09

 

 

Yellow Face Sky Blue Hen

 

 

 

Sky Blue Normal Hen

 

 

 

Hang onto those hens........its Murphys Law that if anything is going to go wrong or any birds get sick and die it will be with the hens............you need spare hens and those hens are worth keeping.

[nubbly5 0]

Other Greys (aquired from local branch)

 

Grey Spangle Cock - I'm not much into this cock bird BUT BUT BUT if he is better than your average keep him and ditch other ones. For me he sits way too short on the perch (again bearing in mind photos are all I can determine that on) and he doesn;t have the feather above the cere that i would look for on a cock bird.

 

 

 

Yellow Face Grey Cinnamon Hen - A very nice balanced usable hen regardless of her variety. The sort of hen i would keep myself.

 

 

 

Other Blue Series Birds

 

Cobalt Dominant Pied Hen 09 Yep okay, she's a hen but lacks mask, spots, feather and is a bit dumpy to boot. I would keep this sort of hen as a second stringer.

 

[**KAZ** 0]

Greywing Cock (pet shop buy)

 

 

 

Cull the greywing cock to my place

[nubbly5 0]

I have you guys

 

Also I am getting to know the secretary of my local branch (I have only been a member for 2 weeks) he's given me a bit of advice and I'm hoping to meet more people at the Christmas party. I also met Joe Elias today as he lives close to where I stay when I'm working so although I can't really get him to come over and have a look at my birds I can pop in for a chat and ask him questions as well as look at his beautiful birds

 

 

Greywing Cock (pet shop buy) NICE but I wonder why he was in a pet shop? To nice for a pet shop bird is what I mean. He's tall, has reasonable feather and mask - have you bred from him before? And if he breeds for you and you want to breed greywings I would definitely hand onto him.

 

 

 

Mauve Opaline Hen 09 Another dumpy hen but a hen none the less and a double dark factor, for that she is quite respectable.

 

 

Yellow Face Sky Blue Hen I'm not into this hen much. Narrow in the face, sits low on the perch and her backline is spoilt by the popped out flights. But yes a hen.

 

 

 

Sky Blue Normal Hen Birds like this frustrate me a bit and maybe it's just what she does in the pics but the raised rump does nothing for me. In the second picture she looks like she really can put on a good show if you get up close and make her uncomfortable but if the top photo is typical of her relaxed then personally I would not use her in preference to some of your other hens. Although keeping her on standby is a good plan however she has a really nice head and MAYBE to a cock with great tidy deportment she will have something to offer.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2009 by nubbly5

[GenericBlue 0]

Greywing Cock (pet shop buy)

 

 

 

Cull the greywing cock to my place :rofl:

 

 

he is lovely on top kaz but very short in the bum :rofl:

 

my moment on the Opaline spangle is similar to nubblys

 

also

i just wasted loads of money buying birds i thought were good

untill i got a few rip snorters

 

personally i would wait now to perchus hens from good source rather than pet shops

wait till u met some members your club

look at the unifitiale birds show christmas breack up thing at what birds you like look of then find out who breed them

then go talk to them about being on their next cull list and express your wanting to start a stock line with some their birds could they help u

most are willing only rare few wont

really

i would not get birds that are like the hens you have they do sit short and are very unappealing as far as show quality is conserned

i dont mind the mauve actually i think she could produce very nice given the right boy

the dom id get rid of as she has a hooked tail if it is always held like this not just in picture

its hard to breed out i wouldnt enter into the efot of trying to breed it out of flock once its breed in

id get her gone no w but thats me

i just got ride all my hens almost

and am going to wait till i can gain decent ones worth the cocks i have

sounds silly but belive me i will be better off for it

the chicks will show this

 

 

the grey wing cock he has nice directional feather a keeper

Edited December 4, 2009 by GenericBlue

[splat 0]

The easy way to to this Linda,is to

join a club & take your birds to the club.

The experince breeders will help you sort out

your birds,for you.As has been said it is hard to

cull just loooking at pictures.

 

GREAT ADVICE Macka :rofl:

[Dave_McMinn 0]

Linda,

 

I think you have been given some fantastic advice, and you have obviously received it very well.

 

Well done Macka, Nubbly, Kaz, GB and everyone who offered great advice.

[Linda_S 0]

Thanks again to everyone that has taken the time to offer their opinions/advice. Once again very helpful :flowers:

 

The hens aren't pet shop buys, most of them are what I purchased when I first decided to get into breeding show birds and didn't know a lot about what to look for. I just purchased what I thought was the best of what was available from what was getting sold at my local branches show. There wasn't a lot of hens available and I went off the advice of the people there at the time. A lot of the birds I have now are from this initial purchase, if I could go back I probably wouldn't have got a lot of the birds I did but I had nowhere else to source birds at the time so.......

 

The reason I was thinking about a cull was because I'd like to make room for some better birds now that there are more places for me to source them from.

 

I haven't tried to breed with the Greywing yet and I know that there's a chance he may have been at the pet shop because he no longer fills eggs but he was such a nice bird that I figured I'd give him a shot. The pet shop I got him from does recieve breeders culls fairly frequently and there were other greywings cocks of similar quality at the shop when I got him so fingers xsd the breeder just had to many cocks and maybe a few younger replacements for him. If he doesn't breed though I'm probably not going to worry about greywings.

 

Thanks again