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Dean_NZ

Crested Hen

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Finally found some time to get some recent photos of baby #4 from the pair that seem to be throwing some sort of crest. So far it has only shown up in hens, 1 from each round. 'Spiral crest' Hen #1 had 2 very distinctive spirals just above each cere, her sister in the next clutch had a small one on the right and one on the left the same size as her sisters.

 

Here is the first post about Hen #1:

 

Chick 4: The interesting one! There is good news and bad news. 'Good news' is that the directional feather on this one is really odd (good news to me lol). Has anyone seen this before? Does it grow out? Or do you think it may be some sort of crestbred or crest forming? Have a look -

6697130a11462467301l.jpg

 

Click here for larger picture

 

And a different angle:

6697130a11462467360l.jpg

 

Click here for larger picture

 

Heres the other problem - im worried about the lower mandible. To me it appears to have stunted growth? It just doesnt look/feel right to me. Thoughts/comments? If it is stunted, what can i do about it to ensure it grows as best as possible? Any ways to restore it or lengthen it? As long as she can feed herself as an adult, i will be happy, but i would hate for her to have any difficulties. Have a look -

 

6697130a11462467417l.jpg

 

Click here for larger picture

 

And another angle, also showing how the feathers above her cere protrude in an unusual way -

6697130a11462467268l.jpg

 

Click here for larger picture

 

 

Now for some updated pictures - she started her adult moult about 2 weeks ago, it has been a reasonably heavy one and looked especially itchy around her head, I can definately see the new adult spiral feathers coming out in different directions and of ALL my hens, she has the biggest blow by far - she ir probably blowier than almost all my boys bar two!

 

Here she is with a half sister (from the same father). The half-sister is an sf violet opaline sky blue, the spiral hen is a sky blue opaline. This cock seems to produce far better quality hens than cocks:

 

6697130a11879409674l.jpg

 

Here she is again in front of an 8 week old from another pair:

 

6697130a11879409694l.jpg

 

And here she is blowing a bit:

 

6697130a11879409710l.jpg

 

Click here for a large version of the above picture

 

6697130a11879409724l.jpg

 

Click here for a larger version of the above picture

 

A similar picture with flash:

 

6697130a11879409743l.jpg

 

Click here for a larger version of the above picture

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She is a beautiful hen !! :) You would have to happy with that ;)

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She is looking to be a real stunner. Her younger sister from the next clutch is gorgeous too. I' HAVE to show you her! She is also a single factor violet opaline, the one with the 'half' crest i mentioned before. She is about 8 weeks old ;)

 

6697130a11879447328l.jpg

 

6697130a11879447341l.jpg

 

Click here for a larger version of the above picture

 

6697130a11879447358l.jpg

 

Click here for a larger version of the above picture

 

Im in love :)

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you thay look good i will like the last hen thanks

 

Lol thanks shannon. Im very happy with all the girls from this pair so far :)

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Congratulations Dean, they are lovely and I totally understand why you are "in Love" with her! :)

 

Regarding the "crest" you mentioned, I may be wrong but I think those feathers were an indication of the blow she was going to develop as she went into her moult, not a crest per se. ;)

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Wow great looking hens!

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Congratulations Dean, they are lovely and I totally understand why you are "in Love" with her! :)

 

Regarding the "crest" you mentioned, I may be wrong but I think those feathers were an indication of the blow she was going to develop as she went into her moult, not a crest per se. ;)

 

You may be right. I refer to it more as a spiral than a crest, but it is definately 'directional' feathering. Im still in the very early stages of breeding show birds (having started with pet type stock and lesser show quality birds) so I don't have a great amount of experience with directional feathering. All my chicks have had pins either sweeping straight back over the head laying flat, or they have been sweeping back but standing up more like porcupines (those are better birds with better feather). I have had chicks with varying degrees of feather sweeping out over the brow, but never had such an obvious disturbance of feather that clearly was and is growing forward at the front, out to the sides and then finally sweeping back further up the skull.

 

This could be standard in all birds with good blow, but then it makes me wonder why no-body mentioned this as normal when I posted the pics? Many of you have far better birds than I, and no-one had seen or commented on seeing such a disturbance in the feathering before. I watch a lot of breeding journals of GOOD birds here and havent seen it either.

 

So is it standard directional feather? Is this disturbance present in all birds with great blow? Or is it just another way to get the same appearance?

 

Edit: You would be surprised at the parents. They are not large birds, nor do EITHER of them have good mask length, blow, or feathering. The cock is mediokre at best, average size, smallish head etc etc, decent spots but poor mask length etc. The hen is even worse lol, but she was a violet and I took any show-bred violets I could, knowing the genes passed on may produce better offspring. The best features of either parent is fertility - the cock will mate with ANY hen I put him to and fills every egg, an EXCELLENT feeder. The hen lays 10-12 a round and successfully raised 12 chicks in 2 rounds (foster parents killed half her first round). This last round has 8 siblings, 6 cocks 2 hens so.

Edited by Dean_NZ

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Congratulations Dean, they are lovely and I totally understand why you are "in Love" with her! ;)

 

Regarding the "crest" you mentioned, I may be wrong but I think those feathers were an indication of the blow she was going to develop as she went into her moult, not a crest per se. :D

 

You may be right. I refer to it more as a spiral than a crest, but it is definately 'directional' feathering. Im still in the very early stages of breeding show birds (having started with pet type stock and lesser show quality birds) so I don't have a great amount of experience with directional feathering. All my chicks have had pins either sweeping straight back over the head laying flat, or they have been sweeping back but standing up more like porcupines (those are better birds with better feather). I have had chicks with varying degrees of feather sweeping out over the brow, but never had such an obvious disturbance of feather that clearly was and is growing forward at the front, out to the sides and then finally sweeping back further up the skull.

 

This could be standard in all birds with good blow, but then it makes me wonder why no-body mentioned this as normal when I posted the pics? Many of you have far better birds than I, and no-one had seen or commented on seeing such a disturbance in the feathering before. I watch a lot of breeding journals of GOOD birds here and havent seen it either.

 

So is it standard directional feather? Is this disturbance present in all birds with great blow? Or is it just another way to get the same appearance?

 

Edit: You would be surprised at the parents. They are not large birds, nor do EITHER of them have good mask length, blow, or feathering. The cock is mediokre at best, average size, smallish head etc etc, decent spots but poor mask length etc. The hen is even worse lol, but she was a violet and I took any show-bred violets I could, knowing the genes passed on may produce better offspring. The best features of either parent is fertility - the cock will mate with ANY hen I put him to and fills every egg, an EXCELLENT feeder. The hen lays 10-12 a round and successfully raised 12 chicks in 2 rounds (foster parents killed half her first round). This last round has 8 siblings, 6 cocks 2 hens so.

 

this is the way to

grab what you can with the genetic make ups your after and add size and mask latter

not many do things this way but i do and its payed off

i have some great birds from lesser cocks with great backgrounds and lesser hens also with good history

i just brought some lovely big hens two o9 and 3 other older birds today and some older cocks of very nice quality these hens are a size up in size from most hen birds i have

and am hoping they will just add that extra something to my birds im not sure about the cresty thing i never seen it either but im only new also to show birds

i started as you did :D

 

good luck with your breeding i for one would like to see more your breed birds

troughs hens are nice i want the one shannon wants :)

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Hi Dean,

 

You mentioned that the father of these hens throws better hens than cocks. It makes me wonder if there might be some sort of sex-linked gene that plays a part in size and blow. Have you bred any of his sons? Maybe you will get more hens like these from them? (If they are split to whatever it is.)

 

Do any of you experienced show breeders ever come across this type of factor when you get good size and good feather? If things like opaline, cinnamon, even hemophilia in humans, can be sex-linked, why couldn't feather quality?

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okay this is going to sound probbly not how its ment but here i will give it a go

just remember i know what i mean :D

 

in hens lets take a cinnamon hen as an example

if you breed a cinnamon hen with light cinnamon in her wing melinom to a dark winged cinnamon cock

then you will most probbly get darker winged cocks in nest than hens as hens although not sexlinked do have this thing where the strength of colour is passed on more so from them then the cock

im not talking body colour as in blue green grey what not im talking strength of feather deepth of colour

so all her hens may just be lighter marked than the sons from this pairing

 

but put a deeply coloured cinn her to a lightly coloured cinn cock well rezults normally 100 percent darkly marked cinn chicks

 

i dont exactllyu know what this is called but it is inhereted better from hens than cocks

 

mabe someone else knows exactly what im trying to say and can go farther with a more understandable explanation of what im trying to say :hug:

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okay this is going to sound probbly not how its ment but here i will give it a go

just remember i know what i mean :D

 

in hens lets take a cinnamon hen as an example

if you breed a cinnamon hen with light cinnamon in her wing melinom to a dark winged cinnamon cock

then you will most probbly get darker winged cocks in nest than hens as hens although not sexlinked do have this thing where the strength of colour is passed on more so from them then the cock

im not talking body colour as in blue green grey what not im talking strength of feather deepth of colour

so all her hens may just be lighter marked than the sons from this pairing

 

but put a deeply coloured cinn her to a lightly coloured cinn cock well rezults normally 100 percent darkly marked cinn chicks

 

i dont exactllyu know what this is called but it is inhereted better from hens than cocks

 

mabe someone else knows exactly what im trying to say and can go farther with a more understandable explanation of what im trying to say :hug:

Wow that's fascinating! How do you know this, from breeding experience or from something you've read?

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okay this is going to sound probbly not how its ment but here i will give it a go

just remember i know what i mean :D

 

in hens lets take a cinnamon hen as an example

if you breed a cinnamon hen with light cinnamon in her wing melinom to a dark winged cinnamon cock

then you will most probbly get darker winged cocks in nest than hens as hens although not sexlinked do have this thing where the strength of colour is passed on more so from them then the cock

im not talking body colour as in blue green grey what not im talking strength of feather deepth of colour

so all her hens may just be lighter marked than the sons from this pairing

 

but put a deeply coloured cinn her to a lightly coloured cinn cock well rezults normally 100 percent darkly marked cinn chicks

 

i dont exactllyu know what this is called but it is inhereted better from hens than cocks

 

mabe someone else knows exactly what im trying to say and can go farther with a more understandable explanation of what im trying to say :hug:

Wow that's fascinating! How do you know this, from breeding experience or from something you've read?

 

 

first i read it i have it here some where i will look for it

 

but then over years i put the information i read to trial

and its true

to a point when i say a point 90 percent out of 100 the article was correct

mind you since i read it i have only brought hens with deep colour in wings and body

as wings meliniom and body maliom is held in diffront positionsone the one bird this goes for all birds

so ... it just makes sence to buy stock with deep colour depth in wings and body

i will try find it to share as it was very interesting and true in my experience

now a few gens of bubs all my cinnamons are of deep body and wing colour

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Hi Dean I have had a good look and I would say they are very likely to be crest bred they show a disturbance in the nest and after first moult or before normally it goes away and they look normal I would mark them in your breed records as crest bred tgey are nice hens ask the breeder you got them from cock or hen could be carring that gene

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Hi Dean I have had a good look and I would say they are very likely to be crest bred they show a disturbance in the nest and after first moult or before normally it goes away and they look normal I would mark them in your breed records as crest bred tgey are nice hens ask the breeder you got them from cock or hen could be carring that gene

 

It is unfortunate that it only showed up in the hens as I suspect it came from their mother. I spoke with the breeder and she said it could be either parent (as they are both purchased from her stud) although she is not aware of anything like it in her babies or adults. She suggested pairing both hens back to the cock for one round just to see what happens, and to pair the cock back to the same hen to try and produce a male with the same disturbance to later put back to the hen. They are both 07 birds so they may only have 1-2 more good seasons in them - better get my breeding game face on and hope they play along lol.

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Hi Dean. I know post is a while ago, but now that the breeding season has come around, how have things turned out?

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The hen has gone on to produce one more round with the same cock, and another round with a different cock. None of those 17 chicks had any sort of feather disturbance that was present in the previous round. In all this hen produced 44 fertile eggs over 4 rounds (2 rounds starting august last year and 2 rounds starting feb or march this year) of which 38 were fertile, 30 survived and the rest were either dead in shell (4) or died in the first 2 days of life during a freakish cold snap (4).

 

Only 2 chicks showed the feather disturbance and both were hens. The hen that showed the most disturbance is now the best hen in my aviary (albeit the quality in my aviary was mediokre to begin with). Her sister who had less disturbance is my second best hen. Interesting that?

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Very nice Dean, that hen is lovely :what:

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i got a baby out like this i ask a crest breeder and he sead to me that the mum or dad is crestbreed so pair them to a crest and you will get crest baby's hope it help's you out

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Interesting update. I sold the father of both crested hens and kept the violet mother - thinking that the 'partial crest' (or feather disturbance or whatever you want to call it) was from her. Turns out it was from the father!

 

Heres a brief (but incomplete) history of his chicks:

 

Father x grey opaline hen = had around 20 chicks together, NONE showed any feather disturbances that I was aware of. Mind you this was VERY early in my breeding history.

 

Father x YF violet hen = 2 partial crested hens, both of whom were (coincidentally?) superior to their siblings visually (size, feather, spots etc).

 

Well of the 20 odd chicks with the grey opaline, I kept one son who was the same visual mutation as dad (yf2 opaline sky blue). I use him in my hand tame / pet type breeding as he is gorgeous.

 

He was paired with an older hen who laid 7 eggs, 6 of which were porous and dried out at varying ages. The seventh somehow survived and hatched - and is now showing the same spiral feather disturbance as one of his aunties. The first hen had a double spiral as you can see in the beginning of this thread, the second had a single one just on the left side - exact same spot as this boy (her nephew) has. Unfortunately this pairing (and this chick) were pre-ordered hand tame babies so i've already made a commitment to sell him!!!!!!!!!!! I really want to back out and keep him to breed back to the aunty with a double spiral as I want to try double up on this. I've talked to the potential owner about 'borrowing' him for breeding once he's older and she's agreed thus far... I don't know... I really want to keep him but its already been arranged... T_T

 

Here are some pics, I added arrows to one to show the direction the feathers are obviously growing as it doesnt show as clearly in pictures.

 

A few days ago:

6697130a12762067319l.jpg

 

Today:

 

6697130a12762067597l.jpg

 

More from today:

 

6697130a12762067662l.jpg

 

Directional arrows to show growth direction a bit clearer:

 

6697130a12762067961l.jpg

 

Normal chicks feather growth:

 

6697130a12762076735l.jpg

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If you are thinking this might be due to a sex-linked gene, then for it to pop up like this, the chick must be a hen.

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Here she is with a half sister (from the same father). The half-sister is an sf violet opaline sky blue, the spiral hen is a sky blue opaline. This cock seems to produce far better quality hens than cocks:/

 

Interesting update. I sold the father of both crested hens and kept the violet mother - thinking that the 'partial crest' (or feather disturbance or whatever you want to call it) was from her. Turns out it was from the father!

 

 

You had your answer that it was the father way back then (in red) Wish i had seen this thread before, they look cute with the pin feathers.

 

Lucky for you the son carries the gene. If this chick is already set for sale why not breed the father again? you might get another one (or more)

Edited by *Nerwen*

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Here she is with a half sister (from the same father). The half-sister is an sf violet opaline sky blue, the spiral hen is a sky blue opaline. This cock seems to produce far better quality hens than cocks:/

 

Interesting update. I sold the father of both crested hens and kept the violet mother - thinking that the 'partial crest' (or feather disturbance or whatever you want to call it) was from her. Turns out it was from the father!

 

 

You had your answer that it was the father way back then (in red) Wish i had seen this thread before, they look cute with the pin feathers.

 

Lucky for you the son carries the gene. If this chick is already set for sale why not breed the father again? you might get another one (or more)

 

In response to your first quote - read my last message. The father sired some 20-30 chicks prior to that with NO crest-like disturbance. Then with the violet hen, two chicks appeared with it, BOTH from the same cock AND same hen. These were the hens first chicks and the cock had already produced many chicks with NO disturbance so I thought it was the hen and sold the cock bird.

 

I got another 5 chicks from that cock and the violet hen, none of whom had the disturbance, so i paired her up with another cock to see if it WAS her, and none of those 6 chicks had it either. Sold the cock bird thinking the violet hen was the carrier. I do have some of his offspring still.

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