Best In Show...df Spangle And Ubc

[nubbly5 0]

Renee I am line breeding from one cock and this bird has not let me down but he is a great bird but I do have 2 lines going as I am breeding my own outcrosses.

 

this too is also what im doing

i have just staeted though

 

you are right renee in the fact that you need a bird thats through n out good chicks better than self

but what i dont understand is if your keeping family's for what reason

the practice of putting a bird most like its mother

or most like its father (but better ) is to bring out faults so you can see what you will be dealing with if anything

sometimes no faults suffice and your get superior chick

 

its also so you can biuld one a certain birds potency for features

 

i am with splat i breed my own out crosses

this way i know exactly whats going on in my flock and exactly whats going into each bird genetically and look wize

 

i will be bringing birds in now and again but from original breeders and from same genetic line when poss

i know this may not always be poss but will get their when that happens

 

Using families to outcross to each other is fine (for a while) but at some point you will need specific outcrosses that bear specic features not currently there in your stud. Also at some point when you use different families for outcrosses, they become one big family anyway and it happens reasonably quickly. I had 2 distinct lines going initially - 398 lacewing and Supabudgie, now looking at the pedigrees of many of my birds they are a strong combination of both families, where I have used one family to improve the other and visa versa depending on the pairing. I really now have to consider it one big family line.

 

My clearwings on the other hand are very distinctly different as I am limited to what outcrosses I can use AND I've only been breeding them for a couple of years.

 

I think looking for that missing feature in a bird you can buy as an outcross is very important but once you have it there, you need to try and put it into your stud. Sometimes they just don't gell in all that well and then you might need to find another that does. I also think working on a bit at a time is really helpful unless you have unlimited funds and can buy in super budgies to start you off.

[splat 0]

I know what you mean Nubbly I had my lines separted till this year and just by using one hen they are mostly all related now some close some distant but I am after an across now one with power $$$ which I don't think I can afford.

But any way on the look out for one

[GenericBlue 0]

well im pretty much got 5 main cocks and putting all hens over time to them all

i have heaps others i am breeding out crosses with

i cant explain what im doing but it makes sence to me so lol

i know what im on about

 

and not really inter breeding

its very complex but im getting their and good rezults are being achived the main thing

[renee 0]

well im pretty much got 5 main cocks and putting all hens over time to them all

i have heaps others i am breeding out crosses with

i cant explain what im doing but it makes sence to me so lol

i know what im on about

 

and not really inter breeding

its very complex but im getting their and good rezults are being achived the main thing

 

Don't worry if you are the only one that makes sense of it! You know your birds best and that "feel" for what will work is priceless!

[GenericBlue 0]

well im pretty much got 5 main cocks and putting all hens over time to them all

i have heaps others i am breeding out crosses with

i cant explain what im doing but it makes sence to me so lol

i know what im on about

 

and not really inter breeding

its very complex but im getting their and good rezults are being achived the main thing

 

Don't worry if you are the only one that makes sense of it! You know your birds best and that "feel" for what will work is priceless!

 

thanks ren im not worryed thoughs who know me understand me lol

thats all that really counts

as you said everyone knows their birds and their thing

[**KAZ** 0]

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

 

You must have missed this question ?

[renee 0]

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

 

You must have missed this question ?

 

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.

 

When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

 

:raincloud:

[**KAZ** 0]

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

 

You must have missed this question ?

 

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.

 

When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

 

:raincloud:

 

A mystery bird then eh :raincloud:

[nubbly5 0]

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

 

You must have missed this question ?

 

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.

 

When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

 

:raincloud:

 

Rubbish! As a UBC, Aussie YF's (even mutant 2) look to be yellow faced blue and it's not until they moult out that they show that strong yellow suffusion in their body colour. Your girl had not even come anywhere near breaking cap yet!!!! She is definitely a dark green NOT a YF blue. Just because a dark green shows some blue on rump and vent area DOES NOT meant it's a freaking YF. THIS is what happens when stupid judges put in stupid rules about a variety such as the Aussie yf having to be put into the NSV/NSC class. It goes completely pear shaped and people see Aussie YF lurking in every bloody variety!!!!!!! It's a damn YF why not just penalise it for heavy suffusion like every other state in Australia (Gina finishes her little rant!!!!!).

Edited November 17, 2009 by nubbly5

[renee 0]

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

 

You must have missed this question ?

 

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.

 

When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

 

:raincloud:

 

A mystery bird then eh :raincloud:

Not really. She has to grow up and go through a moult first, then everything should become clearer. :raincloud:

 

As for the YF Aussie Mutant II thing, well I do know I have a few but I haven't taken too much notice of them. That will now change with this little one, I will pay more attention as she matures.

 

One tip I picked up is that if you breed these birds back to Blue series they chuck Golden Faces .... hahahaha, I KNEW there was a reason I kept these birds (apart from the fact that I like their shape), I just hadn't figured out how to use them! :raincloud:

[GenericBlue 0]

it defenently isnt a ayf ren

dont know who feed you that **** and i dont care if they were the best breeder in town their obviously not that good as she is only if anything violet green as her colour is quiet dark for a dark green more a moss colour as violet greens are but i didnt want to sugest that erlier as the picture could have been colour destorted

however knowing her mothers violet then im saying she is defenently violet green

but i have not seen her in person so

but not yf blue no way on this planet

[**KAZ** 0]

Well, the UBC looks dark green to me and I have several babies like her right now in darkgreen.

[renee 0]

it defenently isnt a ayf ren dont know who feed you that **** and i dont care if they were the best breeder in town their obviously not that good as she is only if anything violet green as her colour is quiet dark for a dark green more a moss colour as violet greens are but i didnt want to sugest that erlier as the picture could have been colour destorted however knowing her mothers violet then im saying she is defenently violet green but i have not seen her in person so but not yf blue no way on this planet

 

No, I didn't explain it properly GB.What I was told is that if I were to breed her to a Blue some of the chicks would be Golden Faces Blue :raincloud:

 

okay, here are some siblings. If you look carefully you can see a slight yellow suffusion, I believe that is key. :raincloud:

This one nipped me, so purely on that basis I say it is a SHE :raincloud:

 

This one has a better mask but not much on top

Edited November 17, 2009 by renee

[GenericBlue 0]

it defenently isnt a ayf ren

dont know who feed you that **** and i dont care if they were the best breeder in town their obviously not that good as she is only if anything violet green as her colour is quiet dark for a dark green more a moss colour as violet greens are but i didnt want to sugest that erlier as the picture could have been colour destorted

however knowing her mothers violet then im saying she is defenently violet green

but i have not seen her in person so

but not yf blue no way on this planet

 

No, I didn't explain it properly GB.

 

What I was told is that if I were to breed her to a Blue some of the chicks would be Golden Faces Blue :raincloud:

 

well you were told wrong mate

her chicks will not be golden face

if you want ayf chicks breed a ayf bird in cobalt or sky to either a cobalt or mauve to get more this depending on weather you have single or df plays a big part what were the clutch buddys to this little hen ren as im guessing that the father isnt agf either

next time rips around get her to take a look she will also beable to tell you exactly what to breed to achive the df gf im asuming you are wanting to breed :raincloud:

[renee 0]

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

 

You must have missed this question ?

 

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.

 

When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

 

:raincloud:

 

Rubbish! As a UBC, Aussie YF's (even mutant 2) look to be yellow faced blue and it's not until they moult out that they show that strong yellow suffusion in their body colour. Your girl had not even come anywhere near breaking cap yet!!!! She is definitely a dark green NOT a YF blue. Just because a dark green shows some blue on rump and vent area DOES NOT meant it's a freaking YF. THIS is what happens when stupid judges put in stupid rules about a variety such as the Aussie yf having to be put into the NSV/NSC class. It goes completely pear shaped and people see Aussie YF lurking in every bloody variety!!!!!!! It's a damn YF why not just penalise it for heavy suffusion like every other state in Australia (Gina finishes her little rant!!!!!).

Oh, just seen your rant Gina! :raincloud:

 

I DO like it when you say it like you see it :raincloud:

 

Well you are right about this variety being even more confusing because of the Rules at Show.

 

I will repeat myself, I DON'T know, completely stumps me, have no idea, etc. I will have to wait and see!

:raincloud:

[GenericBlue 0]

No, I didn't explain it properly GB.What I was told is that if I were to breed her to a Blue some of the chicks would be Golden Faces Blue :raincloud:

 

okay, here are some siblings. If you look carefully you can see a slight yellow suffusion, I believe that is key. :raincloud:

This one nipped me, so purely on that basis I say it is a SHE :raincloud:

 

This one has a better mask but not much on top

 

 

these chicks are not agf mate they are just green but im still saying violet green id say thats me though :raincloud: i say this as the blue hue on wing and dark violet cheek patches

breeding to a skyblue will tell you for sure

or a cobalt as you should get at least one violet with in two clutches if they are

 

 

both lovley birds by way

no gf though

Edited November 17, 2009 by KAZ

[nubbly5 0]

I don't blame you for being confused. When I asked Peter Glassenbury about where SA benches Aussie YF's he said in the YF class. I told him we put them in the NSV/NSC class and he said "As what variety or combination of varieties?" - exactly!!!!!!!!!!!! So we have a yellow face variety stuck in the NSV/NSC class.... soooooooo confusing...........!!!!!!

 

To try and clarify for you though an Aussie YF in single factor look beautiful (blue with a strong golden face) until they moult out at which point they develop that strong aqua suffusion through the body colour. This is why they were removed from YF class as the thought was that they were not close enough to the YF class standard. HOWEVER in double factor the Aussie YF is magnificent with very little suffusion of the yellow into the blue body colour but still retaining the strong golden face. THESE you can show in the YF class. So single factor Aussie YF into the NSV/NSC class, Double factor Aussie YF okay in the YF class.

 

Your green might be SPLIT for YF if one of her parents was potentially split YF. Her father is green so he might be split for Aussie YF having been bred from one. So he may or may not have passed on a YF gene to his daughter. She may or may not be split for YF.

 

Remember that green, YF and blue occur on the same allele, in that order (you remember greywing, clearwing & dilute on the same allele? - well this is just the same as that). Green is domiant to YF, YF is dominant to blue. So if you breed a single factor Aussie YF (one YF gene, one blue gene) to a normal green (2 green genes) you get the chance of 50% green split YF (one green gene, one YF gene) and 50% chance of green split blue (one green gene, one blue gene). If you breed a green split for YF to a normal blue you have 50% chance of breeding greens split for blue (one green gene, one blue gene) and 50% chance of breeding single factor YF's (one YF gene, one blue gene).

 

Does that help any?

Edited November 17, 2009 by nubbly5

[renee 0]

I don't blame you for being confused. When I asked Peter Glassenbury about where SA benches Aussie YF's he said in the YF class. I told him we put them in the NSV/NSC class and he said "As what variety or combination of varieties?" - exactly!!!!!!!!!!!! So we have a yellow face variety stuck in the NSV/NSC class.... soooooooo confusing...........!!!!!!

 

To try and clarify for you though an Aussie YF in single factor look beautiful (blue with a strong golden face) until they moult out at which point they develop that strong aqua suffusion through the body colour. This is why they were removed from YF class as the thought was that they were not close enough to the YF class standard. HOWEVER in double factor the Aussie YF is magnificent with very little suffusion of the yellow into the blue body colour but still retaining the strong golden face. THESE you can show in the YF class. So single factor Aussie YF into the NSV/NSC class, Double factor Aussie YF okay in the YF class.

 

Your green might be SPLIT for YF if one of her parents was potentially split YF. Her father is green so he might be split for Aussie YF having been bred from one. So he may or may not have passed on a YF gene to his daughter. She may or may not be split for YF.

 

Remember that green, YF and blue occur on the same allele, in that order (you remember greywing, clearwing & dilute on the same allele? - well this is just the same as that). Green is domiant to YF, YF is dominant to blue. So if you breed a single factor Aussie YF (one YF gene, one blue gene) to a normal green (2 green genes) you get the chance of 50% green split YF (one green gene, one YF gene) and 50% chance of green split blue (one green gene, one blue gene). If you breed a green split for YF to a normal blue you have 50% chance of breeding greens split for blue (one green gene, one blue gene) and 50% chance of breeding single factor YF's (one YF gene, one blue gene).

 

Does that help any?

Well you are a legend for taking the time to explain it- Thank You!

In all honesty I got lost 1/2 way through the 3rd paragraph when you are explaining the outcomes.. but no matter, just a case of reading and re-reading it till the penny drops. :raincloud:

But I really like that you explained the dominance sequence of that allele - I WILL remember that!

 

But my big question is, What happens when you pair up the Aussie Mutant II with a Single Factor or even Double Factor YF????

[GenericBlue 0]

I don't blame you for being confused. When I asked Peter Glassenbury about where SA benches Aussie YF's he said in the YF class. I told him we put them in the NSV/NSC class and he said "As what variety or combination of varieties?" - exactly!!!!!!!!!!!! So we have a yellow face variety stuck in the NSV/NSC class.... soooooooo confusing...........!!!!!!

 

To try and clarify for you though an Aussie YF in single factor look beautiful (blue with a strong golden face) until they moult out at which point they develop that strong aqua suffusion through the body colour. This is why they were removed from YF class as the thought was that they were not close enough to the YF class standard. HOWEVER in double factor the Aussie YF is magnificent with very little suffusion of the yellow into the blue body colour but still retaining the strong golden face. THESE you can show in the YF class. So single factor Aussie YF into the NSV/NSC class, Double factor Aussie YF okay in the YF class.

Your green might be SPLIT for YF if one of her parents was potentially split YF. Her father is green so he might be split for Aussie YF having been bred from one. So he may or may not have passed on a YF gene to his daughter. She may or may not be split for YF.

Remember that green, YF and blue occur on the same allele, in that order (you remember greywing, clearwing & dilute on the same allele? - well this is just the same as that). Green is domiant to YF, YF is dominant to blue. So if you breed a single factor Aussie YF (one YF gene, one blue gene) to a normal green (2 green genes) you get the chance of 50% green split YF (one green gene, one YF gene) and 50% chance of green split blue (one green gene, one blue gene). If you breed a green split for YF to a normal blue you have 50% chance of breeding greens split for blue (one green gene, one blue gene) and 50% chance of breeding single factor YF's (one YF gene, one blue gene).

 

Does that help any?

 

 

i didnt think a bird could be split yf it is or it isnt

its simple as that

the only way to tell if a green bird is yellow face it to breed to a blue based bird

 

which ren says she did

this rezulting in two green (violet in my opinion birds )

 

these birds can be yf but only if the mother was green which she is not from what ren says

you would need to breed to blue to find out but if the father ayf green thats the only way they could be

 

however if the father is ayf then he would be more than likely a blue based bird for it to be notacable their for imposable to produce green chicks

 

thats my imput and well what more can i say

not yf in my opinion

can we see mum and dad ren please im very curious now

[splat 0]

If a green bird is masking yellow face look under the wing there should be some blue feathers a tell tail sign.

I have a light green cock with the deepest yellow colour face and I really thought yellow face but I was told to look under the wing and no he is not yellowface and he has not fathered a yellowface.

[RIPbudgies 0]

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

You must have missed this question ?

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

Your UBC is a Normal Dark Green no more no less. The two people who approached you and said she (?) was a YF Aussie Mutant II. Well I don't know who there are nor do I care cause quite frankly they don't know what they are talking about.

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

You must have missed this question ?

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

Rubbish! As a UBC, Aussie YF's (even mutant 2) look to be yellow faced blue and it's not until they moult out that they show that strong yellow suffusion in their body colour. Your girl had not even come anywhere near breaking cap yet!!!! She is definitely a dark green NOT a YF blue. Just because a dark green shows some blue on rump and vent area DOES NOT meant it's a freaking YF. THIS is what happens when stupid judges put in stupid rules about a variety such as the Aussie yf having to be put into the NSV/NSC class. It goes completely pear shaped and people see Aussie YF lurking in every bloody variety!!!!!!! It's a damn YF why not just penalise it for heavy suffusion like every other state in Australia (Gina finishes her little rant!!!!!).

Move over nubbs I am gonna join you in your rant. I agree will all you have said here.

[**KAZ** 0]

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

You must have missed this question ?

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

Your UBC is a Normal Dark Green no more no less. The two people who approached you and said she (?) was a YF Aussie Mutant II. Well I don't know who there are nor do I care cause quite frankly they don't know what they are talking about.

So what was the UBCs parents then Renee ?

You must have missed this question ?

Alder x Kobilanski mix, The Violet Pied hen is a Kobilanski bird and the cock is the son of my original Alder Aus Mutant II bird, he looks Green Normal but maybe he isn't really.When I grabbed the UBC on Sunday I thought it was a Normal Dark Green but then 2 separate people approached me and said SHE was a YF Aussie Mutant II.

Rubbish! As a UBC, Aussie YF's (even mutant 2) look to be yellow faced blue and it's not until they moult out that they show that strong yellow suffusion in their body colour. Your girl had not even come anywhere near breaking cap yet!!!! She is definitely a dark green NOT a YF blue. Just because a dark green shows some blue on rump and vent area DOES NOT meant it's a freaking YF. THIS is what happens when stupid judges put in stupid rules about a variety such as the Aussie yf having to be put into the NSV/NSC class. It goes completely pear shaped and people see Aussie YF lurking in every bloody variety!!!!!!! It's a damn YF why not just penalise it for heavy suffusion like every other state in Australia (Gina finishes her little rant!!!!!).

Move over nubbs I am gonna join you in your rant. I agree will all you have said here.

I agree with Nubbly too, and I dont understand why Renee is STILL SAYING she will wait and see after its first moult

[RIPbudgies 0]

I don't blame you for being confused. When I asked Peter Glassenbury about where SA benches Aussie YF's he said in the YF class. I told him we put them in the NSV/NSC class and he said "As what variety or combination of varieties?" - exactly!!!!!!!!!!!! So we have a yellow face variety stuck in the NSV/NSC class.... soooooooo confusing...........!!!!!!

 

To try and clarify for you though an Aussie YF in single factor look beautiful (blue with a strong golden face) until they moult out at which point they develop that strong aqua suffusion through the body colour. This is why they were removed from YF class as the thought was that they were not close enough to the YF class standard. HOWEVER in double factor the Aussie YF is magnificent with very little suffusion of the yellow into the blue body colour but still retaining the strong golden face. THESE you can show in the YF class. So single factor Aussie YF into the NSV/NSC class, Double factor Aussie YF okay in the YF class.

 

Your green might be SPLIT for YF if one of her parents was potentially split YF. Her father is green so he might be split for Aussie YF having been bred from one. So he may or may not have passed on a YF gene to his daughter. She may or may not be split for YF.

 

Remember that green, YF and blue occur on the same allele, in that order (you remember greywing, clearwing & dilute on the same allele? - well this is just the same as that). Green is domiant to YF, YF is dominant to blue. So if you breed a single factor Aussie YF (one YF gene, one blue gene) to a normal green (2 green genes) you get the chance of 50% green split YF (one green gene, one YF gene) and 50% chance of green split blue (one green gene, one blue gene). If you breed a green split for YF to a normal blue you have 50% chance of breeding greens split for blue (one green gene, one blue gene) and 50% chance of breeding single factor YF's (one YF gene, one blue gene).

 

 

Does that help any?

 

Well you are a legend for taking the time to explain it- Thank You!

In all honesty I got lost 1/2 way through the 3rd paragraph when you are explaining the outcomes.. but no matter, just a case of reading and re-reading it till the penny drops.

But I really like that you explained the dominance sequence of that allele - I WILL remember that!

 

But my big question is, What happens when you pair up the Aussie Mutant II with a Single Factor or even Double Factor YF????

 

Excuse the frustion here but.....how many times must it be written on this forum and others exactly what nubbs as written above. I for one have written it some many times I am now just fed up with repeating myself. I'll give you a tip right now. The majority of judges in the country are damn useless when it comes to variety recognition. Yellowfaces have and no doubt will go on to confuse people because the old ideas and misconceptions are still out there.

 

 

Aussie Mutant II please explain Renee by what you mean here. There is no such thing. The term "Mutant" is used with the other two Yellowface varieties. The aussie one is just referred to as Goldenface in either single or double factor form.

Edited November 18, 2009 by RIPbudgies

[**KAZ** 0]

Time for Nubbly and RIP to write a best seller book..............

 

Yellowface for Dummies

 

 

I reckon it would really sell well.

 

[Daryl 0]

The article linked in 2 parts below goes a fair way to clearing things up. But you may need to read it over a few times:

 

http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolour/peter/yface01.html

 

http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolour/peter/yface02.html