Jump to content
renee

How To Help A Beginner

Recommended Posts

So you've been breeding Show Budgies for a while and you have already made the commitment in time, money and effort (read blood, sweat and tears) to carry on and breed that elusive "perfect" budgie. You have the bug! :P

 

And a newbie crosses your path. They've seen a pretty budgie down at the markets or the local Pet Store and it has a leg ring and naturally they are intrigued to find out more about this stunner which sits head and shoulders above (literally) anything they have seen previously. ;)

 

So they come to visit and naturally you are delighted to show them your budgies and your set up, perhaps this could be a kindred spirit you ask yourself, maybe even tomorrow's next champion breeder?! :lol:

 

What do you do? Do you tell them the truth or do you gloss over the difficult bits? Or maybe a bit of both? B)

 

Do you tell them how much you have spent on this hobby? :ph34r:

 

Do you mention the numerous illnesses you had to deal with in those early years when you brought your new birds in without even understanding the concept of quarantine?

 

How about the challenges you faced in building those aviaries?

 

Or the pit falls inherent in NOT KNOWING what to do when not everything went 100% to plan in your first years of breeding?

 

How through nothing more than blissful ignorance you did EXACTLY the wrong thing (like in my case leaving my best birds in a metal aviary in the middle of the lawn with no shade on the hottest day of the summer ~ needless to say that was not a happy day :( )

 

Maybe you reason that all the above in not your responsibility at all, perhaps it doesn't really matter whether they fall by the wayside disillusioned with the whole show budgie thing after a few years. You cannot know whether they are serious or not or whether they will go on to strive for best practises and do the very best with their available resources.

 

So you could just extol the joys of breeding that first chick, or the thrill of your first shows, or the enduring friendships you have developed with other "budgie nuts" .... :)

 

Or you could mix it up and mention a bit of both ....

 

But then, inevitably with all beginners, they can't drag their eyes off these boofy beautiful budgies and they just have to have one (or two).

 

Do you show them the door and tell them to come back when they've built an aviary, got those breeding cabinets and set up a breeding room?! :rofl:

 

Do you 'gift'/undersell them some of your good birds to give them a head start? :)

 

Or perhaps you would like them to value your hard work so you make them pay the going rate? :(

 

You know sometimes I think you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

Not very long ago I was a beginner too and today I blush as I look back at my expectations and the boldness of my ignorance.

 

You can laugh but I actually had the temerity to ask one of this State's leading breeders to bring out his good birds 'cause I knew what a National winning bird looked like .... and my budget at the time? $100! :blush:

 

And not even very long ago I bemoaned long and hard about a fantastic cock I had been gifted that didn't fill an egg. Only now do I know that I had I had more experience I might have been able to try something different or even give Artificial Insemination a go. :blush:

 

Hard as it is the most valuable lesson you learn in those tricky years is that all your problems are not someone else's fault. Yes, you need to buy other breeder's birds to start off and everything that that entails but the fact of the matter is, as soon as you buy that bird it is your responsibility to care for and nurture. You do not know what you are doing and you can not expect any thing to go smoothly ~ because it doesn't. :)

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=18980

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish someone had told me all the issues that you face. I think i still would have done it but now looking back i might have started slower. I sort of thought "really how hard could it be" so I invested a large amount of time and money into it and then it was just heart breaking, to heart breaking and now I am getting out of it for a while. I think you do need to tell them, I was very much "that will never happen to me" and then when it does you are not prepared for it. I say try and talk them out of it and if they still want to go ahead then help them as much as you can

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an interesting question!

If I were starting out here's what I would appreciate:

Someone who led me by the hand through all the physical equipment, and medicine, and supplements that I would need beforehand, to have for maintenance-plus-emergencies.

Being physically prepared would go a long way toward helping me being mentally prepared.

If I were going into breeding.

Which I'm not! :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was in the newbie shoes for the last 12 months Renee, i have to say i have a greater respect for those breeders who actually help a novice breeder, with either information, secrets of the diet, breeding tips, and decent cheap birds. Of course there are some overly competitive ones out there who guard their every secret and wouldn't help a new breeder, but that just makes them look full of themselves in my mind.

 

My personal opinion is to always help where possible. If a breeder tells you a trade secret and specifically tells you not to pass it around, respect it. Otherwise, help them :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Expectation is the bane of achievement, satisfaction is the knowledge of doing ones best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Questions you need to ask, in no particular order:

 

Do you get on well with your neighbors?

Not everyone enjoys the chatter of happy budgies ...

 

Does your partner share your interest?

You will be spending some of the family budget on this hobby and it helps if you are supported ...

 

Do you like winning?

A competitive spirit will spur you on to improve ...

 

Do you have 'spare' time?

You will need at least 40 mins a day to spend with your budgies ...

 

Do you cope well with adversity?

You will need to be able to learn from bad experiences and move on ...

 

Do you have healthy lungs?

Many a budding champion breeder has to give it away due to an allergy to feather dust ...

 

Do you like researching?

The genetics can be overwhelming to the uninitiated, not to mention budgie well-fare ....

 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to take on,breeding show budgies,

The first year,join a club & go to the meeting & shows,

You take it all in & talk to the members in the club,

now not all of them will be helpful,but you will

find the ones,that will help you,now it all depends

how you come across,if you give the imprssion

that you are willing to learn,you wil will be given

all the help you need.But if you come over as some

one who thinks,you are going to be breeding,show

winners,with your first round,there may not be a lot of

help there,I would say we have had 10 people come to the club

in the last 5 years & 3 are still there,2 have climbed up the ladder,

One of them is a natual & will be into open class next year,he has that

breeders eye,to know what to pair to to what & the outher 1 it his first year of showing & is only a few point,off moving up to the next level & will go up at the end of next year & the 3rd member are a married

couple & they are just happy

to just show in the club shows & be a help around the club & that is a big

part in being excepeded in the club & helped along the way.The other 7 have come & gone,in most cases,you can tell.if they are going to make it to be a breeder,show person,any one can breed a budgie

but it takes alot of work to become a show person.I had 2 very good chicks in anest & yesterday the hen decided to scalp them,I saved one,but the other one,did'nt make it.But you have to put that behind you & move on, will bre3d the pr again & put the egg or chicks under a pr that I know will rear them & the hen will only get to lay eggs again if the young one make it to show standard & if not,will go it the bird dealer.

I know this is a long winded story,bet thats what it takes,to move up thew ladder in this show game. :)

come & gone,it was all to hard to handle or they thought they were going to be

a champion breeder over night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel that true budgie lover/ Breeders would do anything to help a novice learn the ropes in nutrition and health emergencies etc. first and foremost learnig how to care and house the budgies for health and safety should be the number one concern!! Anyone who would take a few hours out of there day to run you through the cabinets, special food, suitable avairies, supplements, show you their birds and babies, costing of food, housing and budgies is truely a remarkable person. Especially if they are willing to bring you into their own home........ ;) I really admire people who can put competition aside and get down to what is really important!!We all have to start somewhere "YES" your very right, we will all encounter problems with all of the above, losses etc BUT if we have knowledge from someone who has been there done that, then there will be alot more gain than loss!! To all those show breeders keep an open heart, being thrown in the deep end is exactly what is needed for all of us novice wannabee's it puts a really good prospective on a lifetime descision.I Have alot of admiration for all of you. If there were alot more people willing to help out the beginners there may be alot more "stayers" alot of wonderful birds and some exciting competetion possibly in the future!!All the very best with your endevours everyone! :D

Questions you need to ask, in no particular order:Do you get on well with your neighbors? Not everyone enjoys the chatter of happy budgies ...Does your partner share your interest? You will be spending some of the family budget on this hobby and it helps if you are supported ...Do you like winning?A competitive spirit will spur you on to improve ...Do you have 'spare' time?You will need at least 40 mins a day to spend with your budgies ...Do you cope well with adversity?You will need to be able to learn from bad experiences and move on ...Do you have healthy lungs?Many a budding champion breeder has to give it away due to an allergy to feather dust ...Do you like researching?The genetics can be overwhelming to the uninitiated, not to mention budgie well-fare .... :)
My Husband and children have allergies and Asthma daily, this may be my hiccup to taking this further we'll see how we go with my pet budgies first???? Hmmm :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you want to take on,breeding show budgies,

The first year,join a club & go to the meeting & shows,

You take it all in & talk to the members in the club,

now not all of them will be helpful,but you will

find the ones,that will help you,now it all depends

how you come across,if you give the imprssion

that you are willing to learn,you wil will be given

all the help you need.But if you come over as some

one who thinks,you are going to be breeding,show

winners,with your first round,there may not be a lot of

help there,I would say we have had 10 people come to the club

in the last 5 years & 3 are still there,2 have climbed up the ladder,

One of them is a natual & will be into open class next year,he has that

breeders eye,to know what to pair to to what & the outher 1 it his first year of showing & is only a few point,off moving up to the next level & will go up at the end of next year & the 3rd member are a married

couple & they are just happy

to just show in the club shows & be a help around the club & that is a big

part in being excepeded in the club & helped along the way.The other 7 have come & gone,in most cases,you can tell.if they are going to make it to be a breeder,show person,any one can breed a budgie

but it takes alot of work to become a show person.I had 2 very good chicks in anest & yesterday the hen decided to scalp them,I saved one,but the other one,did'nt make it.But you have to put that behind you & move on, will bre3d the pr again & put the egg or chicks under a pr that I know will rear them & the hen will only get to lay eggs again if the young one make it to show standard & if not,will go it the bird dealer.

I know this is a long winded story,bet thats what it takes,to move up thew ladder in this show game. :D

come & gone,it was all to hard to handle or they thought they were going to be

a champion breeder over night.

 

Great advice Macka and very true it is hard to breed good birds as Macka said anyone can breed budgies but not everyone can breed that bird the winner, John Ennis is going up to open he is the one with the eye, am I right Macka :bow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are spot on the money,Splat :bow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Precisely Macka! :)

 

And this is another reason many a beginner Show Budgie breeder falls by the wayside. :D

 

Anyone can have a few show budgies in the back yard and (try) to breed them but you cannot get away from the fact that they are exhibition budgerigars that are bred to a Standard. B)

 

Many a beginner is lured into believing that it is all relatively straightforward because once they get their foundation stock in those early years they breed some pretty good birds which do well when they first show them. More often than not it is because they received gifted birds that another breeder has put years into developing. :)

 

It really takes dedication and a little bit of luck to improve your birds. And unless you put in a lot of hard work this is not going to happen, and it is at this point when many become disillusioned or unprepared to put in the hard yards and give it away. :)

 

You cannot expect to rock up to the Club Shows and take out the awards without putting time and effort back into your club. Unless you are unusually gifted you really need to become a Club Steward and learn what features are desirable so you know at least what your birds do and do not possess so you have a template for improvement. :)

 

All clubs need active members that turn up to the shows and help out. If you can not or will not support your club you cannot expect your fellow members to help you in the long road to becoming a successful breeder. Remember a Show Budgie breeder isn't born overnight, it takes many, many years to progress from a Beginner to a Novice to Intermediate to Open breeder. Some talented folk do it in less than 7 years, most take much longer. And reaching the Open grade is not the end of it all! The pinacle, most would agree, is sending one of your birds to the Nationals. :D

 

Any one who says I just want healthy happy birds is deluding themselves. Having Healthy Happy birds is the basic pre-requiste. :bow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been very fortunate with an older friend from my work. He has kept and bred budgies for around 45 years. He has given me all of my birds for free (15 with a couple of losses!) He has also given his spare cage fronts for my breeding cabinets and loaned me his show boxes for our local agricultural show, which he is the chief steward. He gave a couple of spare ribbons to my daughter for encouragement(which she loved) even though she didn't win them! :P He has given me an endless supply of advice and put up with my silly questions and numerous visits to his house to look at his setup! I have been very lucky to have such a generous and knowledgable friend!

Edited by JQ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been very fortunate with an older friend from my work. He has kept and bred budgies for around 45 years. He has given me all of my birds for free (15 with a couple of losses!) He has also given his spare cage fronts for my breeding cabinets and loaned me his show boxes for our local agricultural show, which he is the chief steward. He gave a couple of spare ribbons to my daughter for encouragement(which she loved) even though she didn't win them! :D He has given me an endless supply of advice and put up with my silly questions and numerous visits to his house to look at his setup! I have been very lucky to have such a generous and knowledgable friend!

JQ,If you want to breed & show budgie,

you have,all te help you will need,all

you need to do is put it into pratice,

if you want to show & breed budgies.

You should be able to put a good breeding

team together,with the help of the experinced breeder.

There is is the insentive,for you to come in on the ground floor & make a go

of it at breeding & showing,at very little cost,if that is what you would like to

do. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's nice to have a good friend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking through what you said renee, its a quiet interesting perspective you put it in.....for a beginner like me. Practice, understanding what it means for the future in a way, what it means to have support and help. I dont want to breed birds and have hundreds..i .dont expect that...just a few there in the avairy... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know looking back what I really would have liked is for a breeder to call me when he/she had a sick bird so I could learn from looking at it what it has and then being shown what to do!

 

Yeah right! :)

 

The reason why that would never happen in most cases is that breeders don't want any one to know that they are having problems. There are a variety of reasons for this and so be it. :)

 

This where this forum is so valuable because most of the participating members value the sharing of information. :wacko:

 

But the truth of the matter, at least it was for me, is that until you have 'seen it with your own eyes' many times you don't know what you are facing. And that is a valuable lesson in itself. :)

 

Talk to any breeder and 9 times out of 10 they have experienced almost all of the ailments and conditions that affect budgies. :angry:

 

Ironically I am relieved and grateful I have that wealth of experience now when I am preparing to take my birds up to the Intermediate Grade. I suppose looking back that this learning curve has been traumatic at times but if were not for that exposure I would not be as confident as I am now in my bird's health and well-fare. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i agree with most being said here but what i dont understand is your adapted attitude renee about people and their birds

if you want to show birds you don't need to have the best stock ever

this is the persons own decision

as for what your birds look like well everyone has a different opinion on a good bird

what you may see as a good bird may not be what someone else thinks is important in a bird

 

sourcing birds of quality is not hard and when you mention people whom get gifted good birds from good breeders and breed a few good babys and think they archiving well this is not all ways the case

and in most instances the breeder gifting the bird can see a real potential in the person of in which their assisting as to their ability to be able to have the knowledge and understanding that it takes to begin breeding show birds (or its out of kindness of their own heart to want to point the beginner in to the right direction )

after all weather birds are gifted with a bit of potential quality or not its up to the new comber to decide what to breed in order to produce the look they want

just because you have a quality bird does not mean it will produce well breed stock

it is up to the breeder to pair a cordingly to and for what they persiphically need

a good cock with a plain hen is very rarely going to give you well breed for show stock birds

as is a good hen to a average cock

but that's the beauty of showing improving your birds that's the challenge

i myself breed for enjoyment over winning a ribbon

i am trying to achieve breeding good show birds but im not making that my manatory gold

i have been gifted some good birds but also i sourced these breeders out and was prepaired to pay the going raite for any birds in their cull

how ever i have been lucky to meet so very good achivers and happen to of impressed them with my plan my vortex of knolage and my keeping rargheem (DIET UP KEEP)

yes i have had issues but i was and have not been detured

i know what a good chick in the nest is like and i keep my birds till they molt at least twice

8 month if not sure

i belive that you should help breeders new to hobby as with out them you would have no compertition as as you said it takes years of work to build up a good line of your own

but all good birds were breed from good breeders so you yourself would have started off with (in a sence )gifted birds as any nice bird you can get your hands on in my eyes is a gift

and i dont belive you can knock pet shop culls either as depending if you know what your look ing for or not you can get some very good birds

you just need to know sighns of a dud and learn the physical sighns of illnesses as you said

myself i taught myself with pet types everything

first

they are after all the same just more hardy

i learnt to upsize

to breed for feather

for lenght of mask

for stance and proportion

the main two things i belive make a good show bird :angry:

followed by lenghth of blow and followed by mask

feather to me is last but at same time first as its the quality of the feather that achive most these things

depth of colour is a magor thing also

to breed depth of colour best it is best to always use hens with strong colour depth as they hold the meleniam pigment difrently in their structor than cock birds and the female chicks inhearet this colour deepth gene so to speack

 

books are good but hands on is always best

this sight is good but you do need to be careful who u listen to

i always make sure that if im not sure i will ask on the well established breeders on here

just remembering though everyone is difrent so vering opinions will all ways be given doesnt mean one person or the others wrong just means at these times ask nother opinion

before procedng with the advise given

 

as for breeding show birds it not a hobby for the faint harded

its time comsuming its heart breacking and you almost need to be your own vet as theirs never one around when you need it most

find your own little way about things and when you are comphy follow it and stick to it

you will soon relize if its notworrking

healthy birds will always do good by you

so put your time into the up keep

and keeping breeding as a side you will have more sucsess in my experiance and better abillity to raise healthy young

remember quality over quantaty :)

hope i made some sence

if your putting all your effet into breeding them your others are kind of missing out

oh most importantly

find one mentor not ten

and stick with them

also get everything first birds last

and have saved at least a few hundred for the worse case expence thats unexpected

Edited by GenericBlue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've said elsewhere, Everyone breeds Show Budgies for their own reasons - and that is just fine. :angry:

 

I enjoy helping others which is why so many of my posts are 'educational' in nature.

 

And I like winning! But let me be clear about this, every and any award I take out is a affirmation that we are on the right track and if you like a reward for all the time and dedication Tony and I put into this hobby. And I do like those trophies, not for myself as I have won many a trophy in previous endeavors, but for Tony as prior to this he has never won anything much. It brings me great pleasure to see how delighted he is and how he takes them over to his brother's places to show them off. That is priceless. :)

 

Now realistically the only way I can gauge our improvement is if our birds are compared to other people's birds who are at the same stage as we are, that is why we show our birds at the Club level.

 

I suppose we could just breed Show budgies for the pleasure of doing so, but I really enjoy the Challenge of trying to improve year after year. :wacko:

Edited by renee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I've said elsewhere, Everyone breeds Show Budgies for their own reasons - and that is just fine. :angry:

 

I enjoy helping others which is why so many of my posts are 'educational' in nature.

 

And I like winning! But let me be clear about this, every and any award I take out is a affirmation that we are on the right track and if you like a reward for all the time and dedication Tony and I put into this hobby. And I do like those trophies, not for myself as I have won many a trophy in previous endeavors, but for Tony as prior to this he has never won anything much. It brings me great pleasure to see how delighted he is and how he takes them over to his brother's places to show them off. That is priceless. :)

 

Now realistically the only way I can gauge our improvement is if our birds are compared to other people's birds who are at the same stage as we are, that is why we show our birds at the Club level.

 

I suppose we could just breed Show budgies for the pleasure of doing so, but I really enjoy the Challenge of trying to improve year after year. :wacko:

 

 

Renee I must disagree with some of what you have written. Keep in mind I am not having a go at you but drawing on my experience in the show budgie game over twenty years in Western Australia.

 

Here in the West there has always been a lack of competition especially for the rarer varieties. Novice breeders here are able to show bought birds and as a result what can be seen on the show bench at this level will vary a great deal in quality. After the first breeding season Novices can then bench their own breeding results and it is hoped that they can judge them against others in their grade and see improvements if any. Some Novices are just not good at breeding and never will be and some just show bought birds cause they can use their ever full cheque book to short cut their success. Once you leave Novice and enter Intermediate grade you can no longer show a bought bird. This is when some leave the hobby. It now becomes harder to prove you know your stuff and for those who like to win and suddenly find themselves out of the money, well off they go. The hobby is better off without these types of people in it.

 

Renee your statement about being on the right track is not always correct. At small club shows it is possible for you to be the only person with birds entered in a particular class on a particular day. So this then does not give you any idea at all that you are on the right track. As a rare breeder I consistently benched birds in the Black Eye Self, Greywing and Clearwing classes with no competition, no other birds to guage where I was headed. When the Texas Clearbodies came to WA I was the first to bench them here and for awhile I had no competition. I regularly benched birds such as Brownwings, Darkwings, Saddlebacks with no competition. My aim however was never to win at all costs, this is a bonus. My aim was and still is to enjoy the hobby of keeping and showing budgies. For now however due to reason outside my control I can only breed them, the showing is limited to ag shows with budgie sections.

 

I have always attempted to help those new to the hobby. Many times going out of my way to go to the beginner's house and evalutate their setup, their birds and these little trips would involve at least half a day at my expense. I would give them birds to start and/or sell good birds at rediculous prices. I regularly encouraged juniors and in fact when I was running the Budgerigar Society of WA we had more juniors than any other club in WA. Juniors will usually only be around for a small amount of time. They are limited by their parents and they will usually leave the hobby once boys/girls, cars/horses etc are discovered. Rest assured though the bug has bitten and they quite often return later in life when they have settled down and have a family. My son is a case in point. He gave them up in his teens. He is now 30 and has lately been considering taking up budgies again. He bred Normals and Cinnamon but he also liked the Crested variety. So WA could have another Crested breeder returning to the ranks.

 

I tell you what one of the biggest mistakes a beginner makes is the buying of birds from all over the place and lacking the knowledge to put it all together. I have seen so many good birds purchased from top breeders wasted by pairing to imcompatible partners. Also just because somebody is winning all the time does not mean they are breeding top birds. Some of these people are cheque book champs. They have unlimited financial resources and keep buying top quality birds. Pair them together and produce some outstanding birds (F1 gen) and show the same birds all the time and win. These winners when paired usually produce substandard birds and so the breeders keeps buying in birds. However the astute breeder will perservere with these F1 gen birds and solidify the traits and a few generations down the track will begin to pull out the traits that lay hidden. Breeders who have reached the champion status should not need to be buying birds at every auction going, they should only need to purchase occasionl outcrosses when the need arises.

 

Breeding show budgies is not an easy road, but if you are lucky enough to find a mentor to guide you it will be an easier than going alone. Remember though a mentor may not be in the Champion grade or be winning best in show or even show up at meetings/shows. I know plently of folks still breeding out there who know there stuff but don't participate at club level any more.

Edited by RIPbudgies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is really interesting to read. I'm enjoying the different perspectives. I've got no club experience so can't put my two bobs in but am enjoying reading everyone elses opinions... Thanks for starting it Renee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's not too many novices I know who are chequebook breeders........i.e. just buying birds in to show. Most novices never anticipate what birds will actually cost them and struggle with the right price for the right bird. Some helpful breeders will sell you great breeding stock for as little as $15-$30 and then theres the $500 plus birds. Very few novices will take a chance on a $500 bird as that bird can fall off the perch just as quickly as a $30 bird.

The thing is when you start out you have a certain idea of what you think you want and the direction you are heading in. A mentor to me once said you will change your birds three times over before you gain your actual direction and move forward. Also many novices new to show breeding who may have started out pet type breeding, always have an idea in their head about pretty coloured birds and show breeding is more about size and type than colour. It takes a little while to figure this out and move in that new direction,.....that new way of thinking.

I know I got talked into certain mutations that werent my cup of tea to start with and now I am clearing them out and buying in some of the ones I wish to move forward with. Greywings and dominant pieds are my direction.

Re buying of bulk birds, I now only buy in certain ones I think I need to be compatible with what I am doing. These singular birds are generally now costing me much more money than I ever thought I would be paying. Then there is the odd bargain bird still to be had.

We make mistakes along the way, and sometimes we pay an arm and a leg for a bird that may not be seen as being worth it.

Noone can really criticise ones purchasing or direction as everyone has a plan in their mind and a direction they are taking. It may not make sense to some but it does to the breeder.

I agree with RIP saying that more often than not a good mentor may be hiding in the wings and not necessarily one winning on the top bench.......some of the better mentors to me have been this way.

Re showing bought birds....it works for awhile for novices so we gain some knowledge as to whats acceptable on the bench and what judges deem the right kinds of birds........buying in birds and showing them teaches us a few tricks. Further along there is no real sense of acchievement at all if a bought in bird wins for you...............hollow victory and a victory that belongs to the original breeder and not yourself. So as soon as you have bred some of your own, those are the times when you win that you can feel proud. There is also no real sense of acchievement winning or looking at trophies on your shelf if those trophies were obtained merely by having numbers of birds and no real competition. Personally I do not hold a lot of store in trophies...they mean little to me. My satisfaction comes from nestboxes and seeing them bloom into reasonable showable adult birds.

You also have to get past the odd one or two nice chicks coming out of nests and more a case of consistently seeing nice chicks come out of your nests.

A well known breeder recently told me he can now recognise birds of mine as having been bred by me..in other words they have a "look "now that he sees as mine. I didnt see this myself, but he swears he would recognise a bird of mine and he is a judge....so :)

:angry:

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Renee I must disagree with some of what you have written. Keep in mind I am not having a go at you but drawing on my experience in the show budgie game over twenty years in Western Australia. Here in the West there has always been a lack of competition especially for the rarer varieties.
Yes you are right, when you bench your birds you are competing against one or maybe two other determined and hardworking members at your level. This is why I rarely publish my wins B)
Renee your statement about being on the right track is not always correct. At small club shows it is possible for you to be the only person with birds entered in a particular class on a particular day. So this then does not give you any idea at all that you are on the right track.
Yes and no RIP. I do not celebrate a Novice win, only when one of my birds makes it up to the top bench in the Best in Colour Class because it means my bird has beaten Intermediate and Open birds to get there. :) Also it depends on what your chosen varieties are. I am focusing on Double Factor Spangles, Dominant Pieds, Rec Pieds, Inos, and Clearwings. Most would say that is too many varieties but more to the point these are well represented varieties in WA so to do well I have to win against the top breeders in this State. That's okay for me, I like a challenge. :)
So WA could have another Crested breeder returning to the ranks.
There is an opening for Crested breeders, not many like breeding them and so there aren't many breeders. :wacko:
I tell you what one of the biggest mistakes a beginner makes is the buying of birds from all over the place and lacking the knowledge to put it all together. I have seen so many good birds purchased from top breeders wasted by pairing to incompatible partners. Also just because somebody is winning all the time does not mean they are breeding top birds. Some of these people are cheque book champs. They have unlimited financial resources and keep buying top quality birds.
Well if you know of a Novice cheque book breeder let me know! Personally I don't think twice about spending $100-$200 on a particular bird that will further a variety that I am breeding .... does that make me a cheque book breeder, I hardly think so at those prices. Besides as I've mentioned my specialised varieties are well established here in WA so my foundation stock comes from the top breeders and naturally their generosity is somewhat limited by the fact that I will be using their birds to better them in a few years time. :D
Breeding show budgies is not an easy road, but if you are lucky enough to find a mentor to guide you it will be an easier than going alone. Remember though a mentor may not be in the Champion grade or be winning best in show or even show up at meetings/shows. I know plenty of folks still breeding out there who know there stuff but don't participate at club level any more.
Very true! :)
Re showing bought birds....it works for awhile for novices so we gain some knowledge as to whats acceptable on the bench and what judges deem the right kinds of birds........buying in birds and showing them teaches us a few tricks. Further along there is no real sense of acchievement at all if a bought in bird wins for you...............hollow victory and a victory that belongs to the original breeder and not yourself. So as soon as you have bred some of your own, those are the times when you win that you can feel proud. There is also no real sense of acchievement winning or looking at trophies on your shelf if those trophies were obtained merely by having numbers of birds and no real competition.
Yes Kaz, that is what I experienced last year. There came a time down at SWBC when I was the only Novice showing birds, almost the only person showing birds .... which is why in many regards this year I have just been going through the motions :angry: Now there are many reasons why this happened but at the end of the day you need to remember that by showing your birds you are also supporting your club and I think that gets left by the wayside ....The way things are in WA you need to take your birds to the best competition so next year I am looking forward to putting my birds up against Trish Van Dyk as in my book she is a fantastic and talented Intermediate breeder. :)
Personally I do not hold a lot of store in trophies...they mean little to me. My satisfaction comes from nestboxes and seeing them bloom into reasonable showable adult birds.
I do not think you can breed budgies if you do not enjoy the satisfaction of breeding in itself :) Edited by renee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think my statement about cheque book champs (CBC) has been taken in a different light to what I actually meant. Maybe I just didn't make it clear enough and I certainly idn't mean that you, Renee are one. I don't mean people who spend a lot of money, regardless of grade, are cheque book champs. Let me see if I can make it a little clearer.

 

In order to breed budgies first you buy some. Now in order to progress you stay in the hobby some years and keep breeding. In this state you do not need to win big shows in fact you do not need to win at all. Just stay in long enough and you will make it to Champion grade. Now what a CBC does is win at consistenly high level not by using their brains in pairing birds together and creating families in which that breeder creates their own unique style of budgie. What they do is consistently buy in stock at high prices from top breeders to keep and maintain the level of wins.

 

I am not going to mention names as it serves no purpose. Years ago I knew such a CBC breeder. If you went to his place you would find no consistency in the overall type. By that I mean if you looked at his normals they were different, no consistent features. By that I mean that each breeder although breeding towards the standard of the day still has in his/her own mind what they are looking for and what they are working on. This consistency will show through after many generations to the point you can see a bird on the bench and say I bet such and such bred that. This breeder bred a real smashing budgie which went to ANBC level and won so many shows and in my opinion was over shown but he had to keep showing this bird to win cause he had noting else. Being a Novice and moving into Intermediate I bought birds from this person but these birds never formed the corner stone of my stud and never would. This I realised some years down the track. Why? Because those birds hitting the show birds could not go on to produce winners or even breeders. They were a shot in the dark. A click of just the right pairing. This breeder every year spent thousands of dollars and bought from the best in the country....Henry George, Nigel Tonkin, Kelwin Kakoshke, John Scoble and list goes on. I learnt in the end not to buy his birds but the birds he had bought and was finished with. It was these birds that when used correctly formed the corner stone of my stud.

 

I remember my first days into this hobby and I know who helped me. some of those people are no longer with us. I, like the Novices of today spent money and bought birds from every where. Then as I got better at breeding and decided to concentrate more on improving and sorting the wheat from the chaff I began to reduce the spending. Got smarter about where and what to buy. Realised also that sometimes you got to pay more than $20-$30 for a bird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not going to mention names as it serves no purpose. Years ago I knew such a CBC breeder. If you went to his place you would find no consistency in the overall type. By that I mean if you looked at his normals they were different, no consistent features. By that I mean that each breeder although breeding towards the standard of the day still has in his/her own mind what they are looking for and what they are working on. This consistency will show through after many generations to the point you can see a bird on the bench and say I bet such and such bred that. This breeder bred a real smashing budgie which went to ANBC level and won so many shows and in my opinion was over shown but he had to keep showing this bird to win cause he had noting else. Being a Novice and moving into Intermediate I bought birds from this person but these birds never formed the corner stone of my stud and never would. This I realised some years down the track. Why? Because those birds hitting the show birds could not go on to produce winners or even breeders. They were a shot in the dark. A click of just the right pairing. This breeder every year spent thousands of dollars and bought from the best in the country....Henry George, Nigel Tonkin, Kelwin Kakoshke, John Scoble and list goes on. I learnt in the end not to buy his birds but the birds he had bought and was finished with. It was these birds that when used correctly formed the corner stone of my stud.

Yes I hear you on the consistency of stud. I don't know whether I will achieve that, maybe if I had fewer varieties. What I do hope is that in the not too distant future someone will be able to identify my Dommie Pied, or DF Spangle, or Rec Pied, or Clearwing, etc.

 

In starting these varieties I have sourced the best birds I can locally to set up my foundation stock and I will be keeping them all separated so to speak. But complementary varieties that I also breed such as Cinnamons and Opalines will be used as my own 'out-crosses'. So eventually there will be a homogenousness so to speak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you you first start out in my opinon you should start will the normal varieties and get to no them and only after a few years and proof to youself that you are on the right track then bring in the lesser varieties. I believe this is the only way to learn and that is what I was told my many top breeders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...