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**KAZ**

Greywings

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wow kaz you are doing well with your grey wing i wish my clearwings wear that big
Don't despair Shannon! Greywings and Clearwing varieties are completely different, a good Greywing can compete with a Normal dominant variety but Clearwings don't. :laughter:
These two out in the aviary....018-21.jpg
As much as I like the Blue series Greywings, this one is a ripper! :D

and being split blue is an additional bonus too :D

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018-21.jpg

and being split blue is an additional bonus too :laughter:

Cool! :D

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035-10.jpg

 

036-11.jpg

 

037-7.jpg

 

 

 

021-6.jpg

 

010.jpg

 

023-4.jpg

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Yes, developing Very Nicely! :)

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:o oh gosh WOW!!! :D Fantastic!!

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They are coming along beautifully Kaz :D

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Hi KAZ,

:wub:

I love your greywings...very pretty!

:)

As you are a greywing expert and I also saw that you've got some green greywing spangles I have a question for you:

Have your green greywing spangles a yellowish tail with a white quill or a yellowish tail with a grey quill? I've got a new little green baby here and I think it might be a greywing spangle. It's so hard to tell.

All the "normal" spangles I've got here have a white tail quill so I am a bit confused.

I will try to take some photos soon.

Thanks,

Lea

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Hi KAZ,

:wub:

I love your greywings...very pretty!

:)

As you are a greywing expert and I also saw that you've got some green greywing spangles I have a question for you:

Have your green greywing spangles a yellowish tail with a white quill or a yellowish tail with a grey quill? I've got a new little green baby here and I think it might be a greywing spangle. It's so hard to tell.

All the "normal" spangles I've got here have a white tail quill so I am a bit confused.

I will try to take some photos soon.

Thanks,

Lea

I will go and check for you later :D I do know, that now that they are moulted, the difference between the greywing spangles and my greywings is more obvious in their cheek ;atches. The ones that are greywing have blue cheek patches and the ones that are spangle greywings have two colours in their cheek atches.....the blue of the greywing cheek patch with the silvery colour of a spangle running through it. Anyway...........I will catch up the greywing spangles and take a closer look at their tails later today for you :)

3rdJan01020.jpg

 

Greywing spangle on the left ( hen ) and greywing on the right ( cock )

note the cheek patches ?

Edited by KAZ

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before 021-8.jpg

 

and now 097-4.jpg

 

 

Looking at this bue cock and how pale he was before and how dark now, maybe there is hope for some of the pale ones :)

 

That is an amazing transformation of colour, you wouldn't even know it was the same bird! Goes to show that where we're concerned with fixing variety specifics you have to wait for at least one moult before assessing. I've also found this with Lacewings in that they leave the nest looking almost like Lutinos/Albinos and moult into nice brown wing markings.

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Hi KAZ,

:wub:

I love your greywings...very pretty!

:)

As you are a greywing expert and I also saw that you've got some green greywing spangles I have a question for you:

Have your green greywing spangles a yellowish tail with a white quill or a yellowish tail with a grey quill? I've got a new little green baby here and I think it might be a greywing spangle. It's so hard to tell.

All the "normal" spangles I've got here have a white tail quill so I am a bit confused.

I will try to take some photos soon.

Thanks,

Lea

I will go and check for you later:D I do know, that now that they are moulted, the difference between the greywing spangles and my greywings is more obvious in their cheek ;atches. The ones that are greywing have blue cheek patches and the ones that are spangle greywings have two colours in their cheek atches.....the blue of the greywing cheek patch with the silvery colour of a spangle running through it. Anyway...........I will catch up the greywing spangles and take a closer look at their tails later today for you :)

 

 

Greywing spangle on the left ( hen ) and greywing on the right ( cock )

note the cheek patches ?

 

Thank you KAZ. I took some photos of the baby...hope it is okay to post them in your topic.

I had another look and discovered that his main tail feather quill is white...but the smaller tail feather quills are grey....do you think this is a greywing spangle or something else? Not too sure coz the markings are not good.

Basil_tail.jpg

Basil_back.jpg

Basil_front-1.jpg

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As it was really hot today, I didnt chase the budgies around to catch the greywing spangles up for photos.

BUT I found a photo of one of them that shows the tail quill

 

009-24-3.jpg

 

009-24-1.jpg

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Here's the difference in the cheek patches of the greywing spangles and the greywings

 

greywing spangles

11thJanuary01011.jpg

 

027-24-1.jpg

 

11thJanuary01017.jpg

 

greywings

11thJanuary01018.jpg

 

8thJan0102.jpg

 

019-26-1.jpg

 

024-21-1.jpg

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Thank you for the photos KAZ. It's very interesting to see the differences.

So do you think my little budgie is a greywing spangle or something else?

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Thank you for the photos KAZ. It's very interesting to see the differences.

So do you think my little budgie is a greywing spangle or something else?

I am not sure. There are more experts on here on mutations than me. I dont consider myself an expert yet ;)

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080-7.jpg

 

My best greywing I bred...the sky violet hen was found dead in the aviary today. No illness, no stress, not thin, no poopy bottom. Where she was found it was obvious she had flown into the feeder tray in the night. We had some lightning last night so it looks like she got a fright and flew into the feeder tray and broke her neck. :)

Edited by KAZ

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Sorry to hear that KAZ, she was a pretty bird.

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Sorry to hear that KAZ, she was a pretty bird.

Yes..........she was turning out well.

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That's really sad news Kaz,she was very lovely :)

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Oh no Kaz, I'm so sorry you lost her... :rofl: She would have been a great hen to breed with and brought in some great features into the young aswell... Hugs...

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this is very sad news. To lose a hen is bad enough, a geywing blue hen of such good quality is even sadder.

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Interresting discussion with a worldwide judge and greywing and dilute breeder

 

.........member of the board of governors of the Budgerigar Association of America and serve that organization as a member of their Judges Association. I am also a member of the World Budgerigar Organization's judging panel. It has been my great honor to have been asked to judge budgerigar shows across the United States and in England, Australia and Canada

 

 

There is little that I can add to the volumes of information on Greywing and Dilute breeding. I can confirm from personal experience that the old theory of dominance of greywing over dilute, etc. does not hold true. I have bred perfectly marked greywings from dilutes, along with heavily suffused and lightly suffused dilutes.
Edited by KAZ

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Interresting discussion with a worldwide judge and greywing and dilute breeder

 

.........member of the board of governors of the Budgerigar Association of America and serve that organization as a member of their Judges Association. I am also a member of the World Budgerigar Organization's judging panel. It has been my great honor to have been asked to judge budgerigar shows across the United States and in England, Australia and Canada

 

 

There is little that I can add to the volumes of information on Greywing and Dilute breeding. I can confirm from personal experience that the old theory of dominance of greywing over dilute, etc. does not hold true. I have bred perfectly marked greywings from dilutes, along with heavily suffused and lightly suffused dilutes.

 

All I have to say about that is that most of the so called Dilutes that bred these so called Greywings always turned out to be badly marked Greywings and the Dilutes often turn out to be extremely suffused, lightly marked Greywings. There is failure brought on by the pigeon hole mentality of the show world to see any deviation from what is an acceptable version of the variety.

 

Interpretation of the results of these pairings will always lie in the ability of the person who bred them to be able to distingish the difference between the different 'dilute' alleles in all there good and bad points. It is usually this variety recognition where these people tend to fail badly.

 

It must be remembered that when these alleles are bred together there will be influences from each that will found in the other. Clearwing modified Dilutes is a prime example. Dilutes from pairings to Clearwings often show reduced wing marking yet still retain the same level of body colour. These birds are NOT 'clearwing dilutes' or 'dilute clearwings' as they have and still are labelled. It is the failure of the breeders lack of knowledge on the subject to ascertain a correct visual diagnosis.

 

Coming back to Dilutes and Greywings, it is the same problem. Pairings producing both Dilutes and Greywings from the same nest. Often the breeder is unaware the Greywings are split for Dilute. Birds produced from pairings of both alleles will be influenced from one another. Clearwings also play a part here as this is employed by some to produce the Full-bodied Greywing which is a composite of the Greywing and Clearwing. Things can get quite complicated when this is done as over time any Clearwings that are produced WILL be heavily marked and many have been sold (and shown) as bad Greywings. If a pairing such as a Full-bodied Greywing is paired to a Dilute thinking that the Dilute is a Greywing the results will be Greywings and Clearwings only of which all will be split for Dilute. The Clearwings produced will be very heavy in the wing markings but will have that stronger body colour. The breeder cannot descern the difference keeps the bird and puts it back into the Greywings without records will just keep perpetuating the existance of these birds and at some point down the track another Clearwing will surface and again not be recognised for what it is.

 

Many a new breeder has bought in Greywings that are split for Dilute and paired them together to produce Greywings and Dilutes in the same nest and then just considered the Dilutes are a lighter version and then sell them on or breed with them as light Greywings. Full-bodied Greywings, same problem, the beginner buys and then breeds a host of birds looking similar but different if you get my meaning. But being a beginner they can't tell the difference, get bad advice and subsequently breed or sell these birds on. Another factor which complicates this is that a great deal of the Greywings these days are grey factored birds and this makes it more difficult to ascertain depth of colour.

 

 

I would bet my entire stud that this person you quote from Kaz has not bred Greywings from his/her Dilutes at all. What this 'top' judge is seeing is the modified versions I speak of above. Many times over the twenty years I was breeding I have had these birds presented before me with the same scenario only to find they were dirty Clearwings or heavily suffused Dilutes with dark wing markings.

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Thankyou very much RIP for this great explanation :fear

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A couple of new greywing chicks 024-18.jpg

 

015-18.jpg

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080-7.jpg

 

My best greywing I bred...the sky violet hen was found dead in the aviary today. No illness, no stress, not thin, no poopy bottom. Where she was found it was obvious she had flown into the feeder tray in the night. We had some lightning last night so it looks like she got a fright and flew into the feeder tray and broke her neck. :D

 

My Greywing that ran 2nd at the Nationals had a nest mate brother who was superior to himself. I was in a hurry one morning and left a bucket of water in the birdroom. We all know what happens next.... the young bird got out of the breeding cage, actually rarely happens to me, and drowned in the bucket. Its always the best one...... :D

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