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jlee

Colony Vs Caged

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I write this topic with a little fear of reprisal but I would just like to have a little say on the matter regardless this is just my opinion nothing more I was sad for Ross after reading his post yesterday regarding his experience with colony breeding I too had a hen like this last year fortunately I only lost one chick and the trouble making hen was promptly taken out of the aviary and returned to where I had got her and explained what happened so the owner would be aware if he was going to sell her on if he had not have been willing to take her back I was going to sell her as a pet with the explanation to why she was only being sold as a pet. Now I am a stay at home mum ( I have a child with some illnesses) so I spend hours in or around the aviary ( it is only three meters from my back verandah) therefore I have a really good knowledge on my birds and their behavior so I am always watchful and quickly cotton on to any trouble makers that need to be removed thankfully I have only had the one incident so far. My husband and I spent all of the weekend a fortnight ago building our new aviary so now I am lucky enough to have the two so yes as most would be aware I am a colony breeder ( for now) I also found the most helpful post the other day on colony breeding with regards to spacing of nest boxes making sure there are no main perches in front of the nest boxes just some ways to make the colony breeding run smoother. when I first joined this wonderful forum I was overjoyed that I had found all you wonderful people with knowledge I could only dream of having and thanks to you all I am starting to learn a whole lot more than I had a month ago but there was a down side I kind of felt like a bad person for colony breeding not from anyone directly but with just the feeling I got from some of your answers to other peoples questions when I was browsing all of the topics even now I will try and take photos in my aviary so the nest boxes are not showing but I kind of feel that if you are under the impression I am caged breeding that you will accept me more somehow, I also have noticed there are a whole lot of members that do not post regularly and I often wonder if they are colony breeders and need to keep their secret for fear of criticism or it maybe just my imagination running away with me. I have come to realize the benefits of caged breeding (thanks to the forums) such as less stress on the parents, being able to pick which varieties you would like to breed etc although I have realized caged breeding is not much more of a guarantee for all chicks and eggs to survive than colony breeding maybe the mother will not feed them or is a feather plucker etc although I am going to honestly get into caged breeding within the next few months I am going to buy a set of cages off ebay (thanks to kaz for the tip where to buy them) but I do feel that for children especially getting into the hobby that caged breeding may be a lot harder for them to do as the cages I am bidding on are $118 ( for 4 cages) at the moment and with $80 postage the price could very well reach $200 if not slightly higher ( I am lucky enough to have a hard working hubby with a great paying job to finance my hobbies which also include Pomeranians and horses) at my local store I was told for me (great budgie customer) the price is $60 a cage and for other people it is $70 now as we all know owning any pet costs ongoing money and I doubt when there is a spare aviary out in the back yard and on top of that the cost of birds, food and extra things for them that a parent is going to hand over more money anywhere between $60 and $200 for a child in the hobby to go and buy from 1 - 4 breeding cages when the breeding boxes that can be placed in the aviary cost around $7-$10 some children are probably very lucky and may get this I don't think the majority would it is not only children though it could also be adults just starting out it may be an easier/ cheaper way to get into our wonderful hobby and you have all converted me to caged breeding and I have a plan on how to get right into it I am sure a lot of other people will see that also and change the way they breed their budgies and if not if they continue to colony breed for the rest of their lives they too will have the joy of owning and breeding budgies . We all have to start somewhere and if that means colony or caged breeding then I wish you all the luck in the world we all want the best for our feathered friends and what an absolute joy it is to get the pleasure on breeding our own baby budgies whichever way they are born, parents/ finances/commitments will dictate how far we can take this awesome hobby so all I am saying in a round a bout way is a little tolerance for the way other people breed budgies will go a very long way we still need you to talk about your caged breeding and why you think it is the better option as you may convince people like myself to give it a go and see if it is the best option for them. Thanks for reading and allowing me to be apart of this wonderful budgie online family :)

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I think you'll find, that those members who are against colony breeding, like myself, are so because of our experiences... You learn from your experiences... and try not to make them again... I personally will never colony breed again. I was fortunate enough not to loose chicks, but had some seriously injured hens, who have since recovered. For me, the risks associated with colony breeding, out weight any costs associated with cabinet breeding. Also, when people ask about colony v's cabinet, I will always state my opinion. I do not want others to go through what I and others have gone through. As to tolerating others breeding choices ???? Everyone has the right to breed how they want, but if you come on here or any other forum asking for advice... you will get it, and both sides too... for and against your choice.

 

Also, we have many, many members here. Some post often, some occasionally and some rarely. I doubt it has anything to do with how they breed their birds. All members are accepted here... regardless of what their circumstances are... we are here to help each others... by advice and guidance... If someone was to ask advice about something and I didn't respond because I thought they wouldn't like my answer/advice, and then something was to happen to their birds... I'd feel horrible. I give advice because I want to help others and their birds...

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thank you maesie for your view :)

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jlee,

 

You write your thread as one of fear and trepidation. No one is attacking others personally, just pointing out the problems that exist with colony breeding.

 

I would like to think that we respect the opinions of others on here, and I know that when we are all starting out, financially, colony breeding is often the way we go.

 

When we advise against colony breeding, we do so as we have seen the results. Do we wish it was another way? Of course.

 

I am not sure that the quiet members are quiet because they are colony breeders who are afraid of getting "attacked", rather I think that people have busy lives, and often people read a thread to learn more, and do not feel the need to comment.

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Yes, I totally endorse what maesie has said. ;)

 

We all start off Colony breeding, I had a patio cage with 2 double nest boxes and a cock bird who was most comfortable with 2 hens but I transitioned almost immediately into Show budgies and for that end it's vital to cage breed so you can keep records and breed what you intend to, not just what pops put of the nest! :P

 

I think you'll find that this wonderful forum provides us with the opportunity to speak our minds and engage in open discussion, you don't have to agree with everyone and you certainly do not have to do what any one suggests. B)

 

However, on the subject of colony breeding you may not find that everyone encourages you to do it because of the "horror" experiences many members have had. But of course it's entirely your choice and as you said you spend a lot more time than many are able to observing your birds and the likelihood of a disaster is greatly reduced. :D

 

Welcome to the forum jlee! :D

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Hi Dave

 

I so agree I too have made a decison to cage breed from all of the members opinions who do cage breed and why it is such a good way to breed that is how I have come to my decision I had no knowledge of cage breeding before joining this group and with all of the members help I now know the benefits and continue to want to read about everyones experience with budgies with regards to the comment I made about members who do not post may be closet colony breeders it was meant to be taken as a joke as I myself was not a member for months and used this fantastic website just for the wealth of knowledge from you all contained in it and that knowledge would come from your own experiences and I don't take that lightly as you all have been in the game so to speak a lot longer than me and I welcome your opinions and I have found the majority of people on this forum do not ever attack people most have been ever so helpful as I said in the post it was just feeling I got sometimes when I read some posted answers and thought I would share it on here thats all no sinister motives but I think I may have put a cat among the budgies with it haha

 

thanks ;)

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I think you'll find, that those members who are against colony breeding, like myself, are so because of our experiences... You learn from your experiences... and try not to make them again... I personally will never colony breed again. I was fortunate enough not to loose chicks, but had some seriously injured hens, who have since recovered. For me, the risks associated with colony breeding, out weight any costs associated with cabinet breeding. Also, when people ask about colony v's cabinet, I will always state my opinion. I do not want others to go through what I and others have gone through. As to tolerating others breeding choices ???? Everyone has the right to breed how they want, but if you come on here or any other forum asking for advice... you will get it, and both sides too... for and against your choice.

 

Also, we have many, many members here. Some post often, some occasionally and some rarely. I doubt it has anything to do with how they breed their birds. All members are accepted here... regardless of what their circumstances are... we are here to help each others... by advice and guidance... If someone was to ask advice about something and I didn't respond because I thought they wouldn't like my answer/advice, and then something was to happen to their birds... I'd feel horrible. I give advice because I want to help others and their birds...

Maesie has voiced my very thoughts exactly as if I had spoken them. I do not voice anti colony breeding just because its the thing to say. I started out colony breeding. I also work from home and can watch the birds at all times of the day. It still did not stop me discovering several nests of developing beautiful babies slaughtered by hens who had decided to take that nest for themselves. Here is me wishing now I had photographed this sight just to show I speak from experience and not speaking from a pompous know it all perspective.

I do not either dislike those that colony breed nor do I wish they werent members as we all start somewhere, and hopefully with experience we move on and learn and make things better for the birds.

As a long time member here, I have seen people who colony breed raving about how well bahaved their birds were and how they had no problems at all, to find a time or two later they suffered the same heartaches we all have of slaughtered babies, dead and injured parents etc.

I doubt you actually feel what you are feeling because of us that are now anti colony breeding, you may well be feeling as you are due to trepidation of the possibilities or your perceived apprehension about believing something different to some of us. I try to present both sides of an argument....hence MY ARTICLE you mentioned...the one I wrote to help colony breeders. But forgive me if I ever belittle the risks a colony breeder is taking.

So, Ross posted about his experiences....and the response is........basically that whats to be expected when breeding this way. Until people have experience their first colony breeding massacre they will continue to think alls good and those that are against it are just know it all mouthy types who try and force opinions on others. I will be happy to let people think that of me if giving my advice means I save a few more precious feathered souls.

Edited by KAZ

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Hi Renee

thank you for sharing your experience with me and I totally understand the pros of caged breeding as I myself am wanting to head in that direction also as I have had the pleasure in reading other peoples opinions of this fantastic forum and getting to make my own informed decision from there thanks also for the great welcome

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... as I said in the post it was just feeling I got sometimes when I read some posted answers and thought I would share it on here thats all no sinister motives but I think I may have put a cat among the budgies with it haha

 

thanks ;)

 

Not at all! This forum would die a sudden death if we all agreed on everything! :P

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RIP Babies

 

Baby 1 JULY279x.jpgJULY278x.jpgJULY277x.jpg

Baby 2 JULY276x.jpgJULY275x.jpg

Baby 3JULY273x.jpg

Baby One has mothers colour wings but yellow face and pale blue body. Baby 2 is yellowface cobalt (Type 1 or 2 ?) Baby 3 is same colouring as Misty I think.

 

 

JULY010x.jpg

 

 

I lost all these babies and the cinnamon green hen amongst others.............to attacks in colony breeding.......

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I think you'll find, that those members who are against colony breeding, like myself, are so because of our experiences... You learn from your experiences... and try not to make them again... I personally will never colony breed again. I was fortunate enough not to loose chicks, but had some seriously injured hens, who have since recovered. For me, the risks associated with colony breeding, out weight any costs associated with cabinet breeding. Also, when people ask about colony v's cabinet, I will always state my opinion. I do not want others to go through what I and others have gone through. As to tolerating others breeding choices ???? Everyone has the right to breed how they want, but if you come on here or any other forum asking for advice... you will get it, and both sides too... for and against your choice. Also, we have many, many members here. Some post often, some occasionally and some rarely. I doubt it has anything to do with how they breed their birds. All members are accepted here... regardless of what their circumstances are... we are here to help each others... by advice and guidance... If someone was to ask advice about something and I didn't respond because I thought they wouldn't like my answer/advice, and then something was to happen to their birds... I'd feel horrible. I give advice because I want to help others and their birds...
Maesie has voiced my very thoughts exactly as if I had spoken them. I do not voice anti colony breeding just because its the thing to say. I started out colony breeding. I also work from home and can watch the birds at all times of the day. It still did not stop me discovering several nests of developing beautiful babies slaughtered by hens who had decided to take that nest for themselves. Here is me wishing now I had photographed this sight just to show I speak from experience and not speaking from a pompous know it all perspective. I do not either dislike those that colony breed nor do I wish they werent members as we all start somewhere, and hopefully with experience we move on and learn and make things better for the birds. As a long time member here, I have seen people who colony breed raving about how well bahaved their birds were and how they had no problems at all, to find a time or two later they suffered the same heartaches we all have of slaughtered babies, dead and injured parents etc.I doubt you actually feel what you are feeling because of us that are now anti colony breeding, you may well be feeling as you are due to trepidation of the possibilities or your perceived apprehension about believing something different to some of us. I try to present both sides of an argument....hence MY ARTICLE you mentioned...the one I wrote to help colony breeders. But forgive me if I ever belittle the risks a colony breeder is taking.So, Ross posted about his experiences....and the response is........basically that whats to be expected when breeding this way. Until people have experience their first colony breeding massacre they will continue to think alls good and those that are against it are just know it all mouthy types who try and force opinions on others. I will be happy to let people think that of me if giving my advice means I save a few more precious feathered souls.
Hi Kaz I can tell from alot of your posts that I have read that you will be speaking from a wealth of experience and not a pompous know it all perspective and I agree with you also that things are bound to happen one time or another be it with birds/chicks/eggs as you said that is the risk with colony breeding as I said in my post I too had a little run it with it myself last year and don't ever want it to happen again hence why I am starting to move into the direction of cage breeding which I think will be fantastic when I can actually choose to breed that lovely spangle with a lovely pied girl and not whomever he chooses (which has been nobody ever since I have had him) as I said I have only come to this conclusion for me due to the opinions expressed by all on this forum I am in no way saying that no one should have or voice their opinion we would never learn anything that way but I too just felt like expressing mine as it was just a feeling I got a few times thats all
RIP BabiesBaby 1 JULY279x.jpgJULY278x.jpgJULY277x.jpg Baby 2 JULY276x.jpgJULY275x.jpg Baby 3JULY273x.jpg Baby One has mothers colour wings but yellow face and pale blue body. Baby 2 is yellowface cobalt (Type 1 or 2 ?) Baby 3 is same colouring as Misty I think.JULY010x.jpgI lost all these babies and the cinnamon green hen amongst others.............to attacks in colony breeding.......
WOW! that is a lot to loose thank you so much for sharing

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I know it can be seen that cabinet breeding can be a more expensive option at times, but so many times cabinets can be bought second hand or given to new breeders and those times it all helps ;)

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I know it can be seen that cabinet breeding can be a more expensive option at times, but so many times cabinets can be bought second hand or given to new breeders and those times it all helps ;)

 

the ones on ebay are great value thanks for the tip I wish I knew a lot more breeders in this area that would help with the second hand ones I always see so many cheapie things but they are always so far away. I rang the nearest club the other day to join up but alas no answer and no call back so not sure where to go now I am in Queensland is there a state club?

Edited by jlee

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Hi jlee

 

I started colony breeding but stop before it happened. had a friend that did and he had lots of trouble with it, so I found this forum and went striaght into cabinat breeding and all has been okay. I also brought breeding cabinats on ebay very luck picked up 3 for $110.00.

PS I read alot on this sit but don't comment much. ;)

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I know it can be seen that cabinet breeding can be a more expensive option at times, but so many times cabinets can be bought second hand or given to new breeders and those times it all helps ;)

 

the ones on ebay are great value thanks for the tip I wish I knew a lot more breeders in this area that would help with the second hand ones I always see so many cheapie things but they are always so far away. I rang the nearest club the other day to join up but alas no answer and no call back so not sure where to go now I am in Queensland is there a state club?

Contact Admin Member Daz...........he will help you with clubs :P

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Hi Jlee

welcome to the site

I only started breeding budgies this year and I thought that I would let nature take its course .

I only have the breeding cabinets now thanks to Dave as he was throwing them out ,

all of my birds have been getting on great until the other day, I was at the aviary when 1 of the babies was thrown out of the nest box and that is what made my mind up for me .

Thank you for pointing out the post about setting up nest boxes in a aviary as I will admit that mine do not come anywhere the distance between boxes .

If my reply has come across as that colony breeding is a no no I am sorry as I was only trying to save you from the heart ache that I have gone through

I would still love to breed as a colony and see what colour birds I get but for me I am not going to go through the pain of seeing a baby killed by another bird .

I wish you all the best with the ones that you have in the aviary and lookforward to seeing the results .

If your husband is handy I would say that a cabinet would be fairly cheap to build as you both have just built your new aviary.

 

All the best with your breeding

Ross

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Hi jlee

 

I started colony breeding but stop before it happened. had a friend that did and he had lots of trouble with it, so I found this forum and went striaght into cabinat breeding and all has been okay. I also brought breeding cabinats on ebay very luck picked up 3 for $110.00.

PS I read alot on this sit but don't comment much. ;)

 

 

Hi Jack great to hear from you also a gret buy with the cages on ebay thats where I too am looking :P

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Hi Jlee

 

Sorry you felt that you might get some reprisals from your post. Personally I've been breeding showbirds I cabinets for the last 9 years. Years before that my mother & I bred budgies together in a colony situation for many years (3 different aviaries). We even bred show birds this way but of course could not really be sure of the parentage (which makes it hard when you want to breed better birds). On the whole we had little trouble and good success breeding our birds but a few incidents led me to understand the drawbacks of this breeding system.

 

Of particular note was in one aviary where all seemed very well for a few different rounds - all the birds got on well, we had more than enough boxes to go around (always had at least 2 per hen) thought all was sweet. Then one morning doing the regular bird check we found one hen with her beak completely ripped off. We never knew who did it, there was no evidence on other hens and we didn't have mice THAT big!!! Our aviaries were set up so that hawks, owls etc could not get access to the outside of the cage so we could only assume it was a hen demarkation dispute!!! She went on to recover and learned to eat without the majority of her to beak but the attack was violent and definitely unexpected. Never the less we had great results over many years with only handful of incidents which we wre prepared to accept as part of the deal.

 

Really it just depends on what you want to do, what you are prepared to put the birds through in regards to risk and what outcomes you are after. It's not illegal to breed birds in either way so people can make the decision on the system that best suits them.

 

Hope you find a nice club and have some good budgie breeding successes.

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Hi Jleewelcome to the siteI only started breeding budgies this year and I thought that I would let nature take its course .I only have the breeding cabinets now thanks to Dave as he was throwing them out , all of my birds have been getting on great until the other day, I was at the aviary when 1 of the babies was thrown out of the nest box and that is what made my mind up for me . Thank you for pointing out the post about setting up nest boxes in a aviary as I will admit that mine do not come anywhere the distance between boxes .If my reply has come across as that colony breeding is a no no I am sorry as I was only trying to save you from the heart ache that I have gone throughI would still love to breed as a colony and see what colour birds I get but for me I am not going to go through the pain of seeing a baby killed by another bird .I wish you all the best with the ones that you have in the aviary and lookforward to seeing the results .If your husband is handy I would say that a cabinet would be fairly cheap to build as you both have just built your new aviary.All the best with your breeding Ross
Hi Ross thank you so much for your story and so sorry to hear of the deaths of your babies and I totally understand the switch to breeding cages now (as I too am in the process of doing ;) )and in no way at all did your story say it was bad to colony breed that was your experience with colony breeding and it seems pretty true to form with regards to colony breeding I was just trying to get across my feelings with regards mainly about comments to the younger kids who do not have the access to finances us adults do and not to feel bad if they can't take this hobby to a whole new level with cage breeding and KAZ's article with some helpful tips for colony breeding was very good as I had no idea with regards to the perch/nest box placement at all either could cause some major problems, I do believe cage breeding is the way to go also and will be getting my cages svery soon as I do not want to loose babies or adults either they are too lovely and I will have the hubby building cabinet little does he know yet ( see how handy he is without the welder :P ) thank you so much for taking the time to reply
Hi JleeSorry you felt that you might get some reprisals from your post. Personally I've been breeding showbirds I cabinets for the last 9 years. Years before that my mother & I bred budgies together in a colony situation for many years (3 different aviaries). We even bred show birds this way but of course could not really be sure of the parentage (which makes it hard when you want to breed better birds). On the whole we had little trouble and good success breeding our birds but a few incidents led me to understand the drawbacks of this breeding system.Of particular note was in one aviary where all seemed very well for a few different rounds - all the birds got on well, we had more than enough boxes to go around (always had at least 2 per hen) thought all was sweet. Then one morning doing the regular bird check we found one hen with her beak completely ripped off. We never knew who did it, there was no evidence on other hens and we didn't have mice THAT big!!! Our aviaries were set up so that hawks, owls etc could not get access to the outside of the cage so we could only assume it was a hen demarkation dispute!!! She went on to recover and learned to eat without the majority of her to beak but the attack was violent and definitely unexpected. Never the less we had great results over many years with only handful of incidents which we wre prepared to accept as part of the deal.Really it just depends on what you want to do, what you are prepared to put the birds through in regards to risk and what outcomes you are after. It's not illegal to breed birds in either way so people can make the decision on the system that best suits them.Hope you find a nice club and have some good budgie breeding successes.
Hi nubbly5 thanks for that wonderful reply and your poor hen thankfully she survived!

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im another guy that doesn't like colony breeding either :P i have lost so many babies from this, it put too much stress on me ;) i have only recently taken out the nests from the avairy. it is sad to see a cute baby one day, dead the next.It is sad to see a hen laying on some llittle eggs one day, the hen attacked and cracked eggs on the floor with half chicks and blood the next. it is horrible for me, like torture.. it is nice to know that we are all realising this and are slowly changing to seperate cages because less babies die.

Edited by CUTE.SPANGLED.BUB

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Hi All, great read from everyone, I have some caged, + couple box's on a shelf. I've decided to only breed with cages also. I am glad I haven't had some of the awful experiences some of you guys had. I only had one hen cause any problems, that was when I had loose birds as well as my cages within the aviary. She picked the cere of one breeding hen through the wire, she has gone on to raise her chicks and we divided the aviary and separated the non breeders, to save any more hassles, only one loose pair in breeding section now with 3 chicks. But when she is finished will only have cages. I think colony breeding would be okay if you knew your birds well and could nip any problems in the bud. Although I'm not willing to take the risk. Good luck either way.

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Wow, very interesting read. Lots of very different opinions. I have only been into budgie breeding for the past few months, although my mum bred budgies for about 20 years when I was younger and has just started up herself also. I started off with one aviary with a division down the centre, I had finches in one side and I had a few budgies in the other side (no nests at this stage). Whilst looking for budgies I got onto a friend who was going out of budgies he had about 30 budgies and also about 30 breeding cages and a few show carry cages (although he was a colony breeder had all his budgies together). My mum and I went halves and bought the lot for $300, but then a month or so later another friend approached me and offered me her 15 budgies and a big 3 bay bird cage, so now I also have that and another cage I got of my aunty. So I have got 5 cages with only 2-3 pairs in each exept one which has young birds and some older ones for sale in it, some hens are sitting on eggs some are not. I have also got 9 breeding boxes with pairs in them, so I am using both methods currently. But as I havnt had any eggs hatch out in the aviaries yet I am unsure of what will happen, originally when I got all of the breeding cages I was going to breed just in them, but after trialing a few pairs for weeks, some of them just wouldnt lay or go near the nest, so I just swapped them with other pairs in the aviary, and after about 2.5 weeks most of them were laying, and it also worked the other way, I had some that wouldnt even pair up in the aviary so I had to pair them up in breeding cages, now they are all laying. So for the moment I will be using both methods, but after reading some of the above posts as soon as I see a problem in the aviaries some birds will be getting moved. :(

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Hi Jlee and welcome... :emoticon112:

 

I think the others have covered your questions and concerns, but I would like to add my own personal thoughts....

 

I too started out colony breeding before I found this forum, but we won't go into that :(

 

From what I've read over the last 12 months is that people just don't seem to listen, some people post a question, they then get a educated answer, but don't do as advised.....how frustrating would that be???? :angry: ... time and time again these guys help us newbies, out of thier own personal time, give good advice for free.. that is ignored, the forum has heaps of information, the FAQ's, and just reading other post's...There are heaps of post's about colony breeding issues, and the same answers are given each time...

 

I'm so glad you have taken on board all the advice given, I belive it's never a matter of if.....just a matter of when?? :(

 

At the end of the day it's about the health and wellbeing of our birds, for them to be happy and healthy..

 

Good luck with your breeding...

Edited by anne101

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Hi Jlee and welcome... :emoticon112:

 

I think the others have covered your questions and concerns, but I would like to add my own personal thoughts....

 

I too started out colony breeding before I found this forum, but we won't go into that :(

 

From what I've read over the last 12 months is that people just don't seem to listen, some people post a question, they then get a educated answer, but don't do as advised.....how frustrating would that be???? :angry: ... time and time again these guys help us newbies, out of thier own personal time, give good advice for free.. that is ignored, the forum has heaps of information, the FAQ's, and just reading other post's...There are heaps of post's about colony breeding issues, and the same answers are given each time...

 

I'm so glad you have taken on board all the advice given, I belive it's never a matter of if.....just a matter of when?? :(

 

At the end of the day it's about the health and wellbeing of our birds, for them to be happy and healthy..

 

Good luck with your breeding...

 

Well said Anne, well said!!

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i have been cabinette breeding for many yrs and only laterly decided to insert some nesting boxes into my aviary with the aim of having the birds in there, acting natually as posiblie if you had seen my post on the work my better half did on decorating the boxes you would know that i satrted this about 2 weeks ago and thats the time it lasted i lost 1 hen that was my daughters favorite so nesting boxes ended up on tip very quickly

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