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robyn

Splayed Legs + Pics

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Hi all, Have a nest of 7 chicks, 2 have splayed legs, found information on how to splint legs. Have done this but don't know if cause was lack of calcium. I have got avi-cal now, birds had cuttlefish, grit etc prior and during breeding. Do I add avi-cal to water or can you give it orally to chicks as well, chicks are 13, /18 days old others so far look okay. I only splinted legs (using make-up sponge method) to-day.

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If you reread the topic on here about fixing splayed legs it should say also to additionally give one drop of calcivet to the beak of affected chicks daily for a week to ten days.

 

 

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....hl=splayed+legs

Edited by KAZ

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If you reread the topic on here about fixing splayed legs it should say also to additionally give one drop of calcivet to the beak of affected chicks daily for a week to ten days.

 

 

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....hl=splayed+legs

Thank's Kaz did read it earlier and then couldn't remember which section it was in.I've been checking chicks,largest seems to be moving easier already.So if I give it the calcium each day until I remove splints would that be enough? I've added it to parents water but didn't think chicks would get enough of it to help them, so I'll give them the drops as well. Thanks again for your help. P.S. would it hurt to give a drop to others in clutch as well? If 2 out 0f 7 have it would they be lacking also?

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5chicksfromno1cage.jpg

 

Looking at this picture from your other thread, every chick here has splayed legs.

Is your nest box lined with a plastic container? If so that would be the cause of the condition. The babies can not get a footing on the smooth surface, causing the hips to develop deformed.

 

Older chicks will not recover from this condition :emoticon112: however the younger ones, especially the two littlest ones can recover with some care.

Pick up the little ones and place their legs in the correct position against their body then hold it with your thumb and forefinger for about 10 minuits 3 times a day. this has worked for me on very small chicks that can not have a splint.

 

Also remove the plastic container and provide a rough base preferably with a concave and nesting material. A mix of rolled oats and pine shavings is quite good as a bedding.

 

I really hope some recover, as unfortunately their quality of life is limited if the condition becomes severe.

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I have noticed that members say that there should be a concave in the box and nesting material not be provided when the eggs are being laid. I have always provided nesting material to avoid splayed legs. By what stage of development do you recommend that the chicks be placed on nesting material?

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I have noticed that members say that there should be a concave in the box and nesting material not be provided when the eggs are being laid. I have always provided nesting material to avoid splayed legs. By what stage of development do you recommend that the chicks be placed on nesting material?

I use nesting material all the time. Some mothers will remove if prior to egglaying, but once you have chicks you should start pputting it back in. At that point the mother is too busy to try removing it. The slippery base of the nest is most of that problem.

5chicksfromno1cage.jpg

Edited by KAZ

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I have alwaysed used nesting material and do not use a concave. The nesting material gives nesting mothers something to "chew up & throw out" otherwise they tend to chew up the box in an attempt to "make it nice" part of the nesting process. I let them throw it out and then after the first egg is laid they stop ditching the nesting material and I replace enough to cushion the eggs. Without this, even on a concave, rough hens can accidentally break eggs. With nesting material they don't.

 

Nesting material is crucial for babies too. Stops mums sitting too hard on them, stops leg issues due to lack of grip, helps insulate the babies from cold, helps dry up poo and helps keep nest box environment right for baby birds. If using the plastic boxes just fill them up more so that the babies don't have to scrabble on the slippery plastic floor.

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5chicksfromno1cage.jpg

 

Looking at this picture from your other thread, every chick here has splayed legs.

Is your nest box lined with a plastic container? If so that would be the cause of the condition. The babies can not get a footing on the smooth surface, causing the hips to develop deformed.

 

Older chicks will not recover from this condition :wacko: however the younger ones, especially the two littlest ones can recover with some care.

Pick up the little ones and place their legs in the correct position against their body then hold it with your thumb and forefinger for about 10 minuits 3 times a day. this has worked for me on very small chicks that can not have a splint.

 

Also remove the plastic container and provide a rough base preferably with a concave and nesting material. A mix of rolled oats and pine shavings is quite good as a bedding.

 

I really hope some recover, as unfortunately their quality of life is limited if the condition becomes severe.

Hi Liv, I had same thought about insert. It has been replaced now have woodshavings in box, hen threw it all out earlier. Third largest baby is sitting up normally and now the little fellows are looking o.k as well but will check these each day to make sure.

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Good news. Fingers crossed they make a good recovery :P

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:rofl:
Ditto from me 'my six babies' :bye: :wub: Edited by KAZ
removed double post

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Nesting material is only one factor in preventing splayed legs. A good grippy base is your first port of call and your best bet full stop. Nesting material only adds to the absorbancy factor in the nest and provides some additional grip, but nothing will make up for a base with no grip and I agree - these chicks all look to be splayed or developing splayed legs.

 

You need to find some sort of wood, coconut mesh or other grippy material you can insert onto the bottom of the nests and then replace the chicks on their new footing.

 

Live and learn :rofl: Dont beat yourself up over it. Learn a lesson, move along :wub:

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how are they now robyn? better? do you have a new picture? :rofl:

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ive had the same problem, it has happened once before to me, and they were succesfully splinted and fully recoved and in the aviary with me still.

 

at current i have a few splinted chicks, as mum, who is a great mother, sits a little to tight on them, all i have done is what everyone esle said, calcivet in water, and drop on beak (question: how do you get the drop of calcivet on their beak, i just dipped a cotton stick thing in calcivet and just put on the beak, will this work?)

 

also i have had some older chicks recover well myself. using the above method.

 

good luck with this robyn, i hope they make a full recovery.

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it might be abit more difficult, but in the future if you dont have any time, you can use a string that want hurt the babies legs and they the legs together in the correct position.....

 

but i think livs way is much easier :)

 

what are you going to the ones that wont be cured? they wont be able to sit on a perch :)

 

Fingers crossed

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calcivet in water, and drop on beak (question: how do you get the drop of calcivet on their beak, i just dipped a cotton stick thing in calcivet and just put on the beak, will this work?)
Not ON the beak........IN the beak :)
it might be abit more difficult, but in the future if you dont have any time, you can use a string that want hurt the babies legs and they the legs together in the correct position.....
String is a dangerous thing to have on a chick in a nestbox. The makeup sponge stays where it is put and string doesnt.

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Nesting material is only one factor in preventing splayed legs. A good grippy base is your first port of call and your best bet full stop. Nesting material only adds to the absorbancy factor in the nest and provides some additional grip, but nothing will make up for a base with no grip and I agree - these chicks all look to be splayed or developing splayed legs.

 

You need to find some sort of wood, coconut mesh or other grippy material you can insert onto the bottom of the nests and then replace the chicks on their new footing.

 

Live and learn :D Dont beat yourself up over it. Learn a lesson, move along :)

 

 

Dean my birds never come in contact with the base of the nest box as the whole box is filled with about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of nesting material. It wouldn't matter what sort of box I used as they get adequate grip on the nesting material anyway and don't come near the bottom of it. They would have to be 1/2 mole to find themselves slipping on the nest box floor! I'll take a photo of the amount when I've got little chickies to demonstrate.

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Nesting material is only one factor in preventing splayed legs. A good grippy base is your first port of call and your best bet full stop. Nesting material only adds to the absorbancy factor in the nest and provides some additional grip, but nothing will make up for a base with no grip and I agree - these chicks all look to be splayed or developing splayed legs.You need to find some sort of wood, coconut mesh or other grippy material you can insert onto the bottom of the nests and then replace the chicks on their new footing.Live and learn :) Dont beat yourself up over it. Learn a lesson, move along :)
Hi Dean, They are all now on kitty litter and wood shavings on top. The larger chick has its legs up under it pretty well with the splint, haven't checked them yet Sunday will be about a week. Smaller chick is still having a bit of problem staying upright, but we're perserving. Little fellows seem okay at this stage. :D
how are they now robyn? better? do you have a new picture? :)
Hi, mysix babies, I think the larger one is sitting up pretty well, smaller one a bit wobbly on it I'll take the splints off for a check Sunday. Little fellows doing okay. now I've added firmer stuff they are scrambling around all over each other etc. Luckily Mum & Dad are still on the job. I really surprised how well they tolerate me pulling chicks in and out doing splints etc. Mum just sits and keeps an eye out but no nips or anything. Hope we have a bit of progress Sunday. Thank's for your interest. P.s Haven't got to pics yet .
ive had the same problem, it has happened once before to me, and they were succesfully splinted and fully recoved and in the aviary with me still.at current i have a few splinted chicks, as mum, who is a great mother, sits a little to tight on them, all i have done is what everyone esle said, calcivet in water, and drop on beak (question: how do you get the drop of calcivet on their beak, i just dipped a cotton stick thing in calcivet and just put on the beak, will this work?)also i have had some older chicks recover well myself. using the above method.good luck with this robyn, i hope they make a full recovery.
Thanks, that gives me some hope for them, I've been giving them a drop of calcium each, I just put it in a syringe and let it form a drop and touch side of their beak with end of syringe and they seem to suck it in. I let them take it in in case they inhale it if I forced it. When I have picked up splinted chicks they are grabbing on with their toes so I hope that means they will be able to perch okay further on. Touch wood.
it might be abit more difficult, but in the future if you dont have any time, you can use a string that want hurt the babies legs and they the legs together in the correct position.....but i think livs way is much easier :) what are you going to the ones that wont be cured? they wont be able to sit on a perch :( Fingers crossed
I'm hoping I don't have to think about that yet 'CUTE.SPANGLED.BUB' . I'm just going to cross one bridge at a time. As for the string, I think it would rub the skin off their little legs. I did wonder if you could loop those soft hair elastic (material type covering) bands around to hold them in position but will see how the sponge system works.
calcivet in water, and drop on beak (question: how do you get the drop of calcivet on their beak, i just dipped a cotton stick thing in calcivet and just put on the beak, will this work?)
Not ON the beak........IN the beak :)
it might be abit more difficult, but in the future if you dont have any time, you can use a string that want hurt the babies legs and they the legs together in the correct position.....
String is a dangerous thing to have on a chick in a nestbox. The makeup sponge stays where it is put and string doesnt.
Thank's again Kaz, it does stay in place well. I have checked to see if it's rubbing them as it's been pretty warm but they seem to be okay.

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I have one that has splayed legs at the moment. This one is caused by a weak embryo as its from a stray egg from a 3rd round of tired parents that i fostered out. No amount of splinting has helped. One leg is fine, where the other pops in and out of the joint and sticks backwards. This is a chick from my feather duster line so will wait and see how it turns out. If its healthy, i may consider having the bad leg removed by the vet so it can move around better. Budgies are fine on one leg. We will see.

 

Budgies with splayed legs are able to live okay on the bottom of the cage/aviary provided their needs are accounted for. they need ramps or ladders to get off the ground and the have to be able to reach the food and water.

 

Some people put them to sleep, some rehome them to people who care for disabled budgies, and some breeders just let them live with the flock. They adapt well to disability.

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I have one that has splayed legs at the moment. This one is caused by a weak embryo as its from a stray egg from a 3rd round of tired parents that i fostered out. No amount of splinting has helped. One leg is fine, where the other pops in and out of the joint and sticks backwards. This is a chick from my feather duster line so will wait and see how it turns out. If its healthy, i may consider having the bad leg removed by the vet so it can move around better. Budgies are fine on one leg. We will see.

 

Budgies with splayed legs are able to live okay on the bottom of the cage/aviary provided their needs are accounted for. they need ramps or ladders to get off the ground and the have to be able to reach the food and water.

 

Some people put them to sleep, some rehome them to people who care for disabled budgies, and some breeders just let them live with the flock. They adapt well to disability.

Hi Liv , Thank's for info. wondered if they could survive if splinting doesn't work. Here's hoping these ones do o.k. If not could they ever breed etc? (If the cause was the plastic insert and not genetic I mean). I presume they could still fly it would be the landing and perching that will be a problem.

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wondered if they could survive if splinting doesn't work. Here's hoping these ones do o.k. If not could they ever breed etc? (If the cause was the plastic insert and not genetic I mean). I presume they could still fly it would be the landing and perching that will be a problem.

Not all of them fly or fly well ..............the splayed legs can also affect the hip and alignment of the spine. What they acchieve depends on the severity.

Be very sure you keep the splint on long enough for the correction to set in place and dont be tempted to remove too early.

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Nesting material is only one factor in preventing splayed legs. A good grippy base is your first port of call and your best bet full stop. Nesting material only adds to the absorbancy factor in the nest and provides some additional grip, but nothing will make up for a base with no grip and I agree - these chicks all look to be splayed or developing splayed legs.

 

You need to find some sort of wood, coconut mesh or other grippy material you can insert onto the bottom of the nests and then replace the chicks on their new footing.

 

Live and learn :) Dont beat yourself up over it. Learn a lesson, move along :D

 

 

Dean my birds never come in contact with the base of the nest box as the whole box is filled with about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of nesting material. It wouldn't matter what sort of box I used as they get adequate grip on the nesting material anyway and don't come near the bottom of it. They would have to be 1/2 mole to find themselves slipping on the nest box floor! I'll take a photo of the amount when I've got little chickies to demonstrate.

 

I see you have discovered the flaw in my logic *sneaky face*

 

Lol. But seriously, you make a good point. But that is the only exception - if you have a slippery base the only way to get around it without putting in some sort of insert, is to ensure the box is deep enough to allow a GOOD 1-2 inches of GOOD material that packs down enough to give grip.

 

At the end of the day grip is grip, and even then you may still get splayed legs from calcium deficient chicks or heavy sitting hens. Vigilance wins the day!

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Yes i believe they can fly okay. But they do not have the same control as the legs create drag and throw off the balance of the bird in flight.

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wondered if they could survive if splinting doesn't work. Here's hoping these ones do o.k. If not could they ever breed etc? (If the cause was the plastic insert and not genetic I mean). I presume they could still fly it would be the landing and perching that will be a problem.
Not all of them fly or fly well ..............the splayed legs can also affect the hip and alignment of the spine. What they acchieve depends on the severity. Be very sure you keep the splint on long enough for the correction to set in place and dont be tempted to remove too early.
Thanks Kaz, have checked on Sunday, some improvement in one the other still splayed so resplintered them both. Have just cleaned aviary etc the chicks are getting around reasonably well still being fed etc. caught the oldest one out of nest box sun. splints and all as well as one younger one. :rolleyes: All other cage's doing well box no 5 who had none, now has 3. other eggs half formed dry chicks.
Yes i believe they can fly okay. But they do not have the same control as the legs create drag and throw off the balance of the bird in flight.
Thank's Liv, I suppose they would only have length of aviary to fly but at least it would be excercise for them. Still got fingers crossed for good outcome. :)

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Hi All, I am still trying to fix my little splay legged chicks. I was trying make-up sponge method. Look's to be working on bigger chick. Small one kept falling over on it's side even though I trimmed sponge back etc. It seemed to be causing damage to it's new flight feather tips from being on it's side. SO I took a gamble and tried pipe cleaners. Within a very short time it was sitting up much better and getting around box easily. I placed a loop around the ANKLE area then the other leg about the 1/2 inch apart. It's looking much more agile now so I'm keeping everything crossed still, one leg had improved a bit with sponge, maybe because it kept lying on that side?

I'll check again in few days. Here's hoping. :)

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