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Naughty Behaviour

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Hi there, first of all I'd like to thank the great advice given on this forum =) I bought a budgie last week and he wasn't eating or drinking anything for two days but as soon as I covered three sides of the cage (as suggested by many budgie enthusiasts on here) he started eating. It was a huge relief for me because I was quite concerned, I've only ever had finches and canaries and they're rather different in behaviour.

 

I just have a few questions to ask concerning Henry's age and behaviour. He grew up in an aviary and the couple who sold him to me said he's around about 2 months old. I'm not entirely sure because he already has an iris. He has bars on his forehead all the way down to his cere though, although they're not extremely black and thick. His cere is also a dark violet to pink to blue colour (in layers) so it's a bit of a mixed message. I am quite sure that he's male because he doesn't bite and the cere although not blue is not pale enough to look like it'd go brown. Does he sound like he could be 2 months old? He has a full plumage although some feathers still look like they're growing. I know he's still a baby but I'm curious to know how young he really is.

 

We've had him for about 6 days and he's been running from side to side on the floor of his cage for almost half the day everyday even though his cage is quite big- big enough for two budgies and has toys (he only plays with the swing at the moment).

 

He's quite a lively nice bird, and looks like he's settled in a lot. He comes out of the cage for a few hours each day and he lets me give him scratches and sometimes gets sleepy on my hand (after he's been running everywhere on the floor). The only problem is that he runs around on the floor endlessly, I know it's normal for aviary birds but I'm curious to know when he'll stop doing it. Because he looks like he has a bundle of energy I generally let him out when he runs around on the floor of his cage like a maniac, I'm not sure if he'll see this as rewarding his behaviour, but he generally gets tired and quiet after I've let him out for some fun. He also calls a lot for other birds, especially when he hears them outside and he has squawked a few times but he's stopping it a bit now. I'd really love to hear him make some other noises! Does anyone know how long budgies take get out of the the screaming for other birds stage? And also, does he sound like he's 2 months old? much thanks!

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I've taken a few photos but can't get them on as it says a URL is required. But my description was quite detailed so hopefully that's enough to determine whether he's 2 months old or not.

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Instructions are in my signature ...click on the link under my signature pictures where it says HOW TO POST PICTURES :rofl:

Photos are better than descriptions :P

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He does sound like he's a young fella.

You sound like you are doing a great job with him.

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I would say he probably around the 3 months mark before his first molt, Merlin had iris rings very earlier on, not biting is not always a sign of a male vs female, we have a topic about Budgie Ceres you may want to view that to see which one matches your bird best.

 

Calling for another budgie may take around a month BUT make sure that he is not calling for you. When you leave the room and he calls he may be calling for you not another budgie which is something you have to ignore or it will turn into a habit.

 

I personally would not let your budgie run around on the floor because he can get stepped on accidently, the reason he is running around is because he can't fly (wings are clipped?) but once he starts to get flight again he won't be running on the floor like that. I would use a couch or a table for exercise that is what I do with Merlin.

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thank you for your help =) Thank you for the link too, I'll try and upload a photo when I have time. How can you tell if they've undergone their first moult? and does this happen around 3 months of age? I read a budgie book that said that their cere changes and first moult happens around 3 months, but I think I read somewhere on here that someone's budgie's cere only changed colour at 8 months. Henry has been preening himself quite a bit and when he does so some downy feathers come off which makes me think that he's about to moult. He also has a few feathers growing near his neck. I read that the plumage is complete around a month so I'm not sure if his growing feathers are an indication that he's already moulted or not.. He still has the bars on his forehead down to his cere but again ,they're not very dark and it's a little difficult trying to get a photo that shows the bars on his head, the lighting always lightens the visibility of them. His cere is getting bluer each day whch makes me quite sure he's male.

 

His wings have been clipped. I thought it was best to do so seeing as he was an aviary bird and would probably not enjoy me handling him when he could fly away, it was also a safety measure but I'm not planning to clip them after new feathers have grown back.

 

also one thing I've been curious about is how big budgies get. I've seen some adult ones at the pet store and they are like the size of a cockatiel fledgling (they're not british varieties). I think some adult budgies at the place I got henry from was also that big so would that mean that Henry would double in size as time goes by? It's just a little confusing because books say they're fully grown at 6 months! But it seems like they an get a lot bigger after that.

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They may have been show budgies, they are a lot bigger than pet budgies, which in turn are bigger than bush budgies. Again a photo will help the experts on here identify which one you have.

 

There's a great photo by Melbournebudgies in post 7 of this thread that shows the difference: DIfferent budgie sizes

Edited by Hills

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Have you seen our FAQ, all your answers are there :D http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/faqs/, including in the Welcome Center how to post pictures.

How can you tell if they've undergone their first moult? - the bar lines disappear

 

and does this happen around 3 months of age? Yes around 3-4 months

 

I read a budgie book that said that their cere changes and first moult happens around 3 months, but I think I read somewhere on here that someone's budgie's cere only changed colour at 8 months. They are saying a guideline, it depends on the bird but most around 3-6 months.

 

Henry has been preening himself quite a bit and when he does so some downy feathers come off which makes me think that he's about to moult. He also has a few feathers growing near his neck. It can be a start, some molts take a couple weeks some takes a couple months just depends on the bird and a lot of it factors in on the climate and nutrition factor.

 

I read that the plumage is complete around a month so I'm not sure if his growing feathers are an indication that he's already moulted or not.. He still has the bars on his forehead down to his cere but again ,they're not very dark and it's a little difficult trying to get a photo that shows the bars on his head, the lighting always lightens the visibility of them. Some bar lines are light some are dark so nothing to worry about.

 

His cere is getting bluer each day whch makes me quite sure he's male. If it is a deep purple blue most likely, hens can have whitish blue ceres when they are out of breeding condition.

 

His wings have been clipped. I thought it was best to do so seeing as he was an aviary bird and would probably not enjoy me handling him when he could fly away, it was also a safety measure but I'm not planning to clip them after new feathers have grown back. That is okay, not a biggy just don't let him on the floor it is not safe.

also one thing I've been curious about is how big budgies get. I've seen some adult ones at the pet store and they are like the size of a cockatiel fledgling (they're not british varieties). All Budgies are from AU, the English and American was brought into play I believe by the Americans? The English were breed in England but still originally came from AU. The correct term is show budgie (bigger ones) and pet type (smaller ones). 35-45g is normal for a pet budgie and larger budgies can be up to 55g. (this is estimations) I know there is an article about budgie weight in the FAQ's

 

I think some adult budgies at the place I got henry from was also that big so would that mean that Henry would double in size as time goes by? It's just a little confusing because books say they're fully grown at 6 months! But it seems like they an get a lot bigger after that. Budgies are considered adults by 12 months and I would say that is probably when they are fully grown. If you look around you will see a lot of different varieties in both pet and show especially in the breeding journals and budgie pics.

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also one thing I've been curious about is how big budgies get. I've seen some adult ones at the pet store and they are like the size of a cockatiel fledgling (they're not british varieties). All Budgies are from AU, the English and American was brought into play I believe by the Americans? The English were breed in England but still originally came from AU. The correct term is show budgie (bigger ones) and pet type (smaller ones). 35-45g is normal for a pet budgie and larger budgies can be up to 55g. (this is estimations) I know there is an article about budgie weight in the FAQ's

 

Just to clarify that a bit better. Not all budgies come from Australia (As in all budgies that people in other countries buy are not born in and shipped in from Aus and some breeds did not originate in Aus, ie some breeds come from Germany, some from England). The SPECIES originated from Australia. The English BREED was bred in England after birds were brought in from where they are originated from (Aus) and the pet types were bred everywhere (it is similar to the situation in dogs, the species originated in Europe, but you get some breeds with American or English in the title because they were bred in those countries).

 

All budgies today are descended from budgies that came from Australia, because that is where the species is endemic to, and evolved there, it does not occur naturally anywhere else in the world. But these birds that are descended from the originals may have been born in England or Germany (or anywhere else for that matter) to those Breed lines.

Edited by Sailorwolf

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exactly, you explained it better then I, thank you :D

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You're welcome Elly. :D

The issue is a sensitive one methinks.

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Yes, I noticed it is lol, on last weeks post, to me I really don't care they are budgies :rolleyes:

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just like the kiwi bird... we have bred some in Australia... made them bigger, shortened the beak... stretched there neck and we call them emu's...

 

 

:D

 

You are right Sailorwolf... I just wonder how the Danish people feel when there show type Danish Pieds are called English Budgies...

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And we take your possums and sell their fur as made in NZ. hehe

 

I would think that anyone who has done the smallest amount of research on the budgerigar know they come from Australia, so that is why I don't worry about it.

Edited by Sailorwolf

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Of course budgies are australian birds, that's why I said british varieties because those larger types were bred in Britain and not bred/ developed in australia.

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So again why are Danish pieds, Fallows (originated in America and died out then occurred in Germany(I know there are also English Fallows) and Australian Dom Pied show types sometimes called English budgies???

 

If we use the same argument that you use to say they shouldn't all be called Australian then we shouldn't call them all English either...

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Because a Danish pied is a pattern or colour combination that can exist in both pet and English breeds.

 

Like Palomino horses exist in Arabian, Thoroughbred and Standardbred horses. It is a colour rather than a breed. Palomino is the name of the colour, along with Chestnut, Bay etc etc.

 

This goes for Australian Dom pieds and Fallows. The mutation is just named after where it occurred.

 

Breed really describes the shape and conformation of the animal type. (Some dog breeds can only be a certain colour according to breed standards, but they still fit the breed conformation. Like brown and white Newfoundland dogs are not considered showable and Weimeraners can only be grey, but Budgie breeds do not have specific colours, just like a poodle can be any colour).

 

There is no point calling budgies Australian. That would be like calling all guinea pigs South American, all chinchillas Chilean, all cats Egyptian, all dogs European and all horses Spanish.

Edited by Sailorwolf

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wouldn't the colour be blue, green, white, yellow, etc. etc.

 

I get that the "markings" are simply black, grey, cinnamon colouration but arn't they ruled by genetics? For example if I breed ino to ino I will get ino... not spangle or pied or fallow... much like if I breed a rotweiler with rotweiler. But if I breed Rotty to Pitbull I get a mixture (ame with ino X normal)

 

I see what your saying, and I'm not sure I agree, but I don't have the knowledge to pull off the debate :) (Don't let my wife see this thread she will die from shock, she knows I love a debate)

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Haha, but if you breed blue to blues you will only get blues. Everything in a budgie's appearance is ruled by genetics pretty much.

Pied markings are caused by an absence of pigment in the white areas.

Blue birds are caused by an absence of yellow pigment.

Cinnamon birds are caused by an abscence of black eumelanin pigment and have more phaeomelanin and brown eumelanin.

Dilute birds are caused by a lack of the eumelanin to extend properly

Albinos and Lutinos are cause by complete lack of pigment.

 

These mutations are all controlled by minimal numbers of genes, usually just 1.

Shape and conformation, feather quality and length is controlled by a large number of genes all together. A breed has all of these genes a certain way.

 

Using your rottie cross pittie example, crossing an English and a pet together will also get you a funny mixture too. Although rotties only come in one colour (so aren't a good example), pitties come in many colors and you could argue breeding a black pittie with a piebald pittie will get you a funny mixture too. But a black pittie is not a different breed to a piebald pittie.

The confusion is caused because strange names have been given to the colours. That's why horses are a good example as they have strange names for their colours.

A chestnut horse is essentially a reddish brown horse with same colour mane and tail. A palomino horse is a dilute form of a chestnut horse. You can get palominos and chestnut horses in most of the different breeds. You can get chestnut thoroughbreds, Standardbreds, Arabians, etc etc and the same occurs with palominos, bays, browns, greys, blacks, duns, roans etc etc. Palomino in itself is not a breed. Just like Danish pieds are not a breed.

 

So to summarise. Colouring is nothing to do with breed (unless stated so in breed guidelines (and no budgie breed has a specific colour adhered to it) but I will use this following as an example: A grey dog is not always a weimeranar, but a weimaranar is always grey).

 

Also if you breed spangle to spangle you will not always end up with spangles, because of the gene dominance. Spangle is a co-dominant gene. Inos are recessive genes so you will never get any other type if you breed inos to inos.

Palomino horses are like sf spangles. Two palominos together will produce 50% palominos, 25% cremellos and 25% chestnuts.

Chestnut itself is recessive, so if you breed two chestnuts together you will always get chestnut (remembering that palomino is the dilute form of chestnut, so you could get palominos out of it if one of the parents was carrying, but that would be like breeding 2 blue budgies together. All babies will be blue, but you could possibly get dilutes. And breeding 2 dilutes together you will always get dilute babies).

I hope that helps. It is quite a complicated matter.

Edited by Sailorwolf

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The last 2 posts, I split off of here and put in Budgie Talk, since this has gone OFF TOPIC so much, if you want to continue about the above make a new topic thank you :hap:

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