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classylady

Has He Had Enough?

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I was wondering what thoughts you as budgie owners have about my latest dilemma and would appreciate your comments and feelings on this matter please.

 

I brought Percy home from the vets last night after 2 days hospitalization ( for those who don't know, he was ill after being given Ceftazidime injection for a recurrent gut infection - he has liver disease and fatty lipoma and is 6yrs old). The vet said that Percy had bucked up no end and he had been eating some seed and was fairly lively and his droppings had increased though not 100% right. He'd given him antibiotics and x-rayed because I'd mentioned how Percy had been limping on his right leg and can't stretch it out or use it to scratch himself. The x-ray didn't show any tumour up that the vet could see so he mentioned that Percy could have gout.

 

We brought Percy home and on the 23 miles journey he wasn't his usual chirping self and was quiet at times which has NEVER happened before when he's been transported. However, he was pleased to be home and had some seed and a drop of water. After that he sat on his swing (his perch), fluffed up and sleeping at times, also in pain at times too as he was lunging out with his beak which another vet told me they do if in pain. He wasn't settled most of the evening, he wanted to come over to me but didn't seem settled enough to do so. I just know that he was showing exactly the same signs as before he was hospitalised except eating a little more. The droppings decreased in the evening and I could tell Percy wasn't at all well. Having travelled with him many times before I know that he bounces back (usually) when brought home from the vets but this time it's different, it wasn't the journey that upset him.

 

I do feel that whilst in the vet's the "fight" system kicked in and he showed he was getting better, but once home, relaxed and with us, he showed how he really was and that he was still unwell. This morning he is eating and drinking a little, still fluffed up on his perch. He had poo stuck to his bottom once again and I had to wash him. Oh my god he felt so thin, I weighed him on my kitchen scales again and he is 30 grms, some days ago he was 40 grms. I am feeding him up with stuff he will eat of our food but he seems at times to have trouble swallowing it. I have to continue with antibiotics, crushing a small portion of tablet and mixing it with something he likes, to see if he will take it. I didn't want to medicate by mouth as the stress for him is just too much.

 

The difficult part is....and this is where I need your thoughts and feelings.....we sat watching him last night and thought he just cannot go on like this. 6 years of vets, medication, manipulation, injections, x-rays, blood tests etc etc etc....it is all too much for him and us too as we are so stressed out with illnesses of our own which don't help. We have thought long and hard that perhaps at this time we need to make a decision about bringing in euthanasia. It's not something either of us want to think about - I can't bear the thought, BUT I know we all have to make the best decision for our birds don't we? IF we took him to another avian vet or back to this one, they would do tests, etc etc and I feel at this point in time, we just cannot subject him to all this again.

 

I don't even like writing this but because I don't know what others would do in the circumstances I really would like to hear some comments. I LOVE my darling baby, probably too much because I don't want to let go but I can't bear to see him like this. It's been over a week since the injection made him unwell and I can't see any signs of him getting better than this but would hope I'm wrong.

 

Please help me with your thoughts and feelings, I need to do the best for him as I don't want him to suffer with the way he is going.

 

Thank you for your help, I will take on board all your comments.

 

hugs to you all

Chrissie

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It is a tough decision. What you need to think about is what is his quality of life like? Is he enjoying himself at all? Then there is always that thought of, well what if they get better. It is so hard, having been in your situation before I know the feeling. You will know when the time is right. You will know when he doesn't feel like living anymore, you will feel it.

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*hugs* honey I would love to be able to say 'I think you should do X" but I can't. I have had to put dogs, cats and horses down before and really it's a timing thing. You have to work out when it's his time and it's hard. i wish I could be more help.

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I agree with SW mate,

 

I know that there are members out there that will do what ever it takes to keep their pets alive.

But I on the other hand will look at it this way - Is his having Quality of life or just Life -

 

It would be hard to make that decision - I can understand that, But i like to put myself in their shoes

if think how would i feel living with pain and discomfort for x amount more months / years -

 

It is a tough choice mate, But one that you and your family need to make, not us......

 

What ever choice you do make i Know i will be with you 100% of the way :)

Remember to that not one of your choices will be wrong giving his history and health problems and the bond that you share ..

 

((((((((( B I G H U G S M A T E ))))))))))

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This is a diffcult time for you and I am glad you are here posting. Now matter what you do I do know that you have my support. I have been there and it is a very difficult decision. I wish I could give you the answer but here is what I would do.

 

If I felt that the tests are not giving me answers, the medicines are not working, and his quality of life is poor I would give my pet a huge kiss or hug (or all the love you can give to a budgie) and say it is okay to go (I have done it so many times now...I give them permission)...and I wait and keep them comfortable if you find he is not comfortable you may have to think about the alternative.

 

There is endless hope but what if I did this but we have to look at the reality are all these tests, medicines going to fix it if the answer is no then you know your answer.

 

((HUGS)) :) I can feel your pain.

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Can I just thank all you lovely people who have written here on this awful and difficult subject. I appreciate your words and comfort and understanding, I know you've had difficult decisions to make too that's why I knew I could say what I was going through because more than anyone else, you guys on here would know what it's like.

 

I gave Percy an eighth of a tablet crushed up and on some favourite food of ours that he likes and he gobbled it up yesterday. Soon after he was more bouncy and was ravenous, eating everything he could and drinking and coming over to me. That continued til we put him to bed last night, tho' even through his activity, he was still fluffed up and we knew he wasn't well. The tablet I have to give once a day is Marbocyl P and having read up on the side effects today, one is "transient increase in activity" and that's what I noticed with Percy yesterday as though he was hyperactive, in fact I had to cover his cage at one point to get him to rest.

 

This morning, Friday he hasn't yet had his tablet and although he's eating, he is still fluffed and unwell....things are just not right. I will give him the tablet at lunchtime and no doubt he will be hyper and ravenous again but he's still not as he should be.

 

I still don't know my decision yet or how to face it, though I have a sense as to know what it WILL be...tough and very sad as you all say. I will have a word with the vet again to see what he says, but we have two days where things come to a standstill here - the weekend....so it may be Monday before we can see how things are really going.

 

One thing is for sure, if the local vet hadn't injected him with the Ceftazidime, Percy would not be like he is today, it's made him ill and as far as I'm concerned has brought about the thoughts that I am going to have to face. I knew I wasn't happy with him giving the injection but didn't know why....I even asked if it was safe....and so I "knew" something was wrong....why don't I ever listen to myself!

 

Thank you again, I'm indebted to you all for your care and support.

 

hugs

Chrissie xx

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Biggest Hugs.

I also fully suport which ever decision you make - either one you make will be just as tough as the other.

Biggest hugs again and I am thinking of you

 

Liv

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DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF!!!!!

 

You put your trust into a professional Vet - RE: the injection, so do not blame yourself

 

What was the injection given to him for, was it beause of his gut problem???

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I agree with Neat, if I was in your shoes I would have accepted the injection too not knowing. Biggest Hugs.

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DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF!!!!!

 

You put your trust into a professional Vet - RE: the injection, so do not blame yourself

 

What was the injection given to him for, was it beause of his gut problem???

 

Yes the injection was given for his gut problem, that's all I took him for as his poo was sticking to his bottom and as usual, it had got worse over the week before I took him to the vet. Percy was okay in himself, was eating normally and was out and about flying in the room when he wanted. Every so often his gut flares up and they will give him antibiotics, this time he gave him the injection (antibiotic) and that's what has caused him to be ill. As it affects the liver in humans, then I can only guess it's done so in him with the way he's gone since the injection.

 

He bucked up a little last night when we came home but that was the first time yesterday as he slept most of the day even after his tablet at lunchtime.

 

Chrissie

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Was it a different vet that seen him, as the others weren't and injections - make me think that 1 a different vet seen him 2. why give and injection when the other doses were working?

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Was it a different vet that seen him, as the others weren't and injections - make me think that 1 a different vet seen him 2. why give and injection when the other doses were working?

 

Sunday afternoon -

 

The vet who gave Percy the Ceftazidime injection is my local vet who deals with birds (and other animals). He's dealt with Percy before over the 6 yrs but when I found other avian vets some miles away I prefer to go there. With the latest bout of gut infection (or liver problems) I had no one but my local vet to go to as the others were on holiday or moved away.

 

The one who had moved away I saw about 2 yrs ago and he left without me knowing where he'd gone, then after Percy became ill from the injection, I tracked him down again and he has been treating him since with Marbocyl P which is a tablet. I have to give him one eighth of it which I'm crushing up and mixing with a tiny bit of crushed up cornflakes mixed with some water. That's how Percy is taking his tablets at the moment.

 

HOWEVER.....yesterday Percy had bucked up no end, he was eating lots of his own food and was talking and just almost back to normal, I was over the moon but realised he still had a long way to go.

 

TODAY.....he is back to square one, not eating unless I help him which I do of course, and the worst part is he is in pain with his right leg/foot. He is holding it up, can't really get comfortable and is having a job to move. I did wonder if the Marbocyl P might have had side effects such as joint paint but I can't find anything like that. I am holding his food and water up for him to have and he is taking it, but his leg is really making him feel unwell. The vet said he couldn't find anything on the xray to indicate a tumour (though I didn't think the xrays were that clear myself but I'm no expert), so he suggested he might have gout. I don't know what sort of symptoms they have with gout or if they can do anything.... has anyone experienced this with their bird at all? I will speak with the vet again tomorrow and see what he comes up with, but at this moment in time, yet again I fear the worst case scenario because I hate to see Percy like he is today.

 

I am still stressed out of course, though yesterday seemed to be a break through, but I guess I was hoping for miracles and now today, it's all changed. I am keeping him going and giving him lots of love so we are both hanging in there....

 

Chrissie

Edited by classylady

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gout is a type of arthritis which is usually flared by high protein diets.

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Hi again,

 

Just thought I'd update you on this. I took Percy back to the vet on Monday after phoning him to tell him that Percy couldn't get about much with his leg problem. He said that he still felt it was gout and that he'd start him on some painkillers. He's had 2 days of them now (Vetacam I think it's called, 1 mil mixed with some food and fed off a spoon) but he's not a lot better with his leg at the moment. I don't know if the meds have to build up to help the pain or what, I just hope he does get some relief as things aren't good for him hobbling about. At least he is eating virtually normally now again - that's a relief for sure. I'm still giving him the antibiotics on some mashed up cornflakes, he loves that.

 

Apart from the leg he is much better than he was after the injection....the gut problem/infection still persists but that is normal for him... hopefully the antibiotics will help.

 

Hope you all have a good day.

 

Chrissie

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Hi not much on the vet knowledge here but i can give you a little info on gout.

 

I have it in my hands things that flare it up are, alcohol, seafood, cauliflower and painkiller.

 

Heat helps it, I love holding my hands on a hot water bottle when it flares up it's great. Maybe letting him have a cuddle on a warm hot water bottle (I have a little one that has a sheep skin cover that my budgie love I use it as a sick pad)

 

Gout is the most painful thing I have ever had (and I have a prolapse disc in my back!) anything touching the skin hurts like red hot pokers so maye standing on the perch is really painful for him I can't even stand the touch of my bed sheets when I have a bad case it's so bad that i throw up from the pain.

 

I know for humans when my gout flares up they give me anti inflamatries not painkillers so maybe have a chat to him about that.

 

A few things that I try and add to my diet to help keep it under control (any feel free to jump in if any of these are not Budgie friendly)

 

Ginger - raw cooked or covered in choclate it makes me want to barf but it does work

Turmeric - I add it to most things i cook

Arnica - it's a cream that I got very good might want to check with the vet before appling to an animal

Licorice Root - i can get it in tea form

Cod liver Oil - Makes me sick thinking about taking this, but I know you can give it to Budgies as I soak one of my hens seed it in to help keep her regular and her eggs come out when I add this to her diet.

Boswellia - never tried it as the tea always smelt bad but it is suppose to be good.

 

That is a start. Have a chat to your vet. As i said it might be different with humans but I got told I had this about 5 years ago, some simple mods to my diet and i have not had a flare up in about 2 1/2 years.

 

i hope this helps. good luck with everything.

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Did you talk to the vet about diet? Gout is usually flared up by diet.

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Gout is usually apart of kidney issues. Change his perches so that his feet are more comfortable ..

 

Apples. Apple cider vinegar, Aloe vera, are natural anti inflammatory

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Yes Neat that is true :D

Lecturer/avian vet today said that gout is often caused by kidney problems in birds as it is a build up of uric acid, which a normal kidney is supposed to get rid of. A bunged up kidney is slower at getting rid of it and so it builds up in the body.

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OFF TOPIC

 

:D - I've decided to stop researching and start learning - If that makes sense to you Sw ...

 

I post to many thing Regarding (re:) ; Healths and etc of birds ( i like this part of the hobby for some reason )- But I have been sitting in a few meetings

and visiting aviaries and etc with health issues to see them in Real life rather then on paper or the monitor ..

 

So I am very pleased that I am learning :D

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Hi all,

 

Thanks again for all the input....and here's the latest update. Firstly I do know a little about gout because my father had it, and I do know for budgies that it comes from a kidney problem. My vet has said that when the bird had liver problems it can make the kidneys worse...so I guess IF he has gout then that would be why.

 

The painkiller Metacam (I think I got it wrong before) hasn't touched him and he's gradually got worse with the leg to today where he is on the perch on his belly which is of course the lipoma he has. When he has been standing he holds his right leg up which causes balance problems...with his gut problem he is always scratching his vent but can't do that properly now.

 

Yesterday he was chirping some of the time and he was eating well even getting down to the seed hopper. At the moment this morning all he is doing is laying on the perch, has had water when I hold it up to him and a little food when I hold it for him....so I'm far from happy how things have gone.

 

I'm not an expert in animals esp birds at all, but I don't even know if this is gout because I guess due to Percy having been so unwell with the injection that the vet doesn't want to do anymore tests at this time. The xray he said, didn't show a tumour on kidney or testicles....but the xray (to me) was quite cloudy anyway, but as I say I'm no expert.

 

Percy is finding it impossible to stand on that right leg though at times he doesn't have a choice when he needs to get round the cage. Yesterday first thing he did go to eat, but today he hasn't. I know you've all said I would KNOW when the time came....but last night watching him I was gutted....I thought I can't let him go on like this.....but then he was chirping and talking a little....I'm wracked with guilt and pain in not knowing what to do for my baby..... I know no other person can make that decision for me, but I don't know when to make the decision and that is giving me so much stress. Do I want to put him through all the tests etc when his liver is enlarged and he has never ending gut problems....now the leg problem, the urine problem (lots of it)....I'm devastated and not 100% healthy myself and I just don't know how long I can go on seeing him like this.

 

I will phone the vet again today to explain what has been happening....but I know if I take Percy there he will (out of fear) be chirping and will look okay and the vet could say as he has done before, "Look he's chirping, he is worth fighting for..." I didn't know owning a budgie could be so stressful when they have a chronic illness, I have never encountered it before so it's hurting me to see how things are for such a wonderful little sweet character who cuddles up to me and kisses me....how do I deal with it all.

 

I'm sorry to sound so pathetic...my illness makes me depressed at times and with stress it makes me feel worse....so really I'm no good at things like this but one has to carry on.

 

Thanks for listening guys.....and thanks for all your help.

 

Chrissie

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I have sent you a PM love :D

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BIGGEST HUGS!!

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Biggest hugs, I know this is so difficult. I went through this with a couple of my dogs, they rebound you know and that puts that spark of hope and tinch of guilt but what if I just wait maybe he will turn around....I know those back and forth feeling they truly suck for a matter of nice words.

 

I remember when my cat Pepper had gotten sick really quick and I was force feeding her, giving her IV liquid at home it was the mid point of the week and I swear when I was holding her she looked right into my eyes into my soul and said please enough is enough let me go. That night I made the hard decision, the next day I stopped the feeding, I only gave her small amount of IV fluids and had my husband make the appointment, the next day after I told her to go lat that night she curled in my pillow and died. I wish it was always that easy but it is not I did have to put my 18y old dog to sleep last year for him I held on too long I know it when I look back he suffered so much in his last years.

 

The tears well up in my eyes as I write this because she went so fast, I can't believe she has been gone for 4 years, she was my first shelter cat where I started to volunteer at and I begged my husband to have her and he said no. That day I begged him he went out to PetsMart where they have the adoptions from the different shelters and brought her home. So as I babble on here I understand and I know you will do what you can and what you feel is right. Doing what is right is sometimes the most painful thing you can do in your life. :D

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I am sorry to hear of the news, I am sure that no matter what the choice you make,

It will be for the right things - I am no good at saying the right stuff at the right time.

 

But i am thinking of you both ... Big Hugs Mate ....

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;) I shouldn't have read that Elly... (am now bawling my eyes out again... for the millionth time today)

 

My family had to have our beloved cat put to sleep on Saturday. She was 13. Over the past years she was getting slower, in the past few weeks she wasn't eating as much and we put it down to old age. When she was rushed into emergency they said she was in the early stages of kidney failure. She had ulcers in her mouth and probably her throat and stomach. The vets said by her condition that she hadn't been suffering for long, but I feel so guilty... that I should have picked it up earlier... I hate to think she was in pain :sad: I was also interstate when she was laid to rest. I feel horrible about that too. I wish I could have held her and said goodbye... My sister says that she was very peaceful and was puring and thanking her for letting her go. She also thinks she waited until I wasn't around as she and I were very close. I know 100% how you are feeling... my thoughts are with you...

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