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classylady

Advice Needed - Yet Again

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Hi Everyone,

 

I'm really stressed out again and sorry to pile it all on to you dear folk here but once again I really don't know what to do. Percy who is 6 years old and has liver disease and fatty lipoma has always had a bad gut, showing in lots of different types of poo's none really normal (all mentioned here before by me). Once again, his poo's (what a subject - but a necessary one from what I read..) were sticking to his botty and everyone morning I had to wash them off. He is still chirpy most of the time but sleeping fluffed up some of the time too.

 

Took him to my vet last night - Tuesday, the local one who is down for being an avian vet...but he sees other animals too so I know what you will say. Anyway, I told him about the poo situation and he once again reckons it's all to do with the liver and what it is doing to the digestive system. I can see that point but budgie also get gut problems when their liver's aren't compromised so I thought perhaps treat him as the latter. The vet then gave my poor baby an injection last night of Ceftazidime and says he needs one more on Friday to complete the course. Percy was okay (it was me who wasn't), but I've been out all day today so haven't really seen how he's been. Not much poo in the cage though so thought perhaps he was having trouble "going". Put a clean sheet in the bottom of the cage tonight and he hadn't done a poo for over 2 hours...I was going mental about it all. I decided to have a look at his vent and there was a long black thin poo on his feathers so he had at least done one. Apologies for all the details here. He has been again twice so at least he's been but nowhere near as much as he should obviously. They are all black poo's but nothing is unusual for him where this is concerned as his have never been normal.

 

I rang the vet to ask about the injection, what it was etc but no one there to help tonight. Rang the out of hours vet who isn't familiar with birds and said the injection is an antibiotic which shouldn't make him constipated. She said she would have a look at him but doesn't really know much about budgies...and I thought the journey would be too much and I would monitor him myself even though it's so stressful. Anyway, the situation now is that he IS going but only just. Does anyone know anything about this antibiotic and if it will cure the gut problem et al?

 

There is another issue with Percy (could be testicular cancer....but not diagnosed) but will write about that later as the gut problem is the main concern at this time. Once again I would be SO grateful for any help you wonderful people would be able to give me. You've always been so kind and so helpful here when I've needed you so I am hoping you won't lose patience with me and think "Oh no, it's her whinging again...". Sorry but I'm so upset about all this, I don't think I will ever know when his time comes and how could I when he is chirpy and talking even through all he goes through.

 

Thanks again for listening to me and thank you in advance for any advice you can offer.

 

hugs to all

Chrissie

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If you are having all black poos and he his constipated I believe he is not drinking enough water, white poos indicate urine and you haven't said anything about that. Do you see him drink or can you encourage him to drink more?

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I am so sorry you are still having troubles :)

 

What is his diet???

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I personally think he needs to drink. What I do when Harley was this way was to catch him and using an eye dropper, drop water onto the break. Make sure he is upright or nearly upright so that he does not inhale the water and it gets on his lungs.

 

Also if you have some fresh apples and can juice them then make the mix 50/50 apple and water or whatever fruit your little one likes. That way it's almost like a treat and/or sugar water.

 

I hope he gets better for you *fingers crossed*

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My vitamin supplement recommends treat water made with a teaspoon of sugar plus the vitamins to encourage them to drink, I think apple juice would be better though if you have it.

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My vitamin supplement recommends treat water made with a teaspoon of sugar plus the vitamins to encourage them to drink, I think apple juice would be better though if you have it.

 

 

Harley would not take the vitamin treated water and he hated sugar water but the apple water or Beet water he will drink and untill he is so full that he can't even waddle around his cage. :)

 

If you ahve vitamin supplements that sweeten the water then do try that. The other thing that I have been told is Hydrolite which is a drink you give kids when they are ill.

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Becareful too as black poo can also indicate internal bleeding !

 

Lettuce & Celery is great !! It has no nutritional value but full of water !!

 

Try him on Just grated carrots!!!! It is a fantastic pick me up for them :)

 

I hope that you get some answers soo ...

 

When was the last time he was wormed ???

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Hey, don't feel like you are whinging! We are a budgie forum, we cater to all budgie needs. And we know you are a very caring person who loves your budgie dearly.

We are here to support all.

Plus you aren't being annoying or whinging anyway! :hap:

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Thanks everyone for your support and comments. Percy actually does drink quite a bit for a budgie (compared to what I read of others) and yesterday was no different, in an hour or less he was at the water bowl twice and had two big gulps of water so I really don't think it's that.

 

However, after I posted last night he did some "milky water" poos, no substance just water but they were white/milky. He was a little livelier too but then went back onto his swing with his back hunched over his vent which is something he always does when his gut plays him up.

 

I do realise that black poo's can indicate bleeding, but as his poo's have always ranged from grey, green, dark grey/black, water etc etc..... I don't know what to think about last night except that it's the side effect of the injection (scream).

 

I haven't seen him yet this morning will do soon, so am praying he has done some "normal for him" poo's. I just wish the vets would rule out things like thyroid, pancreas or kidney probs, they talk of it but do nothing, just say that it's his liver disease causing his gut problem but I've never thought that, I've always thought it a separate issue.

 

Re the testicular cancer. The other avian vet (15 miles away) when I told her some months ago that he kept holding his right leg up, she said that it could be testicular cancer but would have to test him if he kept on like that. Well he was okay after that with no signs of holding his leg up...now last week he started to limp on that leg but it gradually got better but I notice when he sleeps on his swing (his perch) it is leaning to the left side where he is obviously leaning on the left leg to sleep. Told all this to my local vet this week and he felt for lumps and said he didn't think it was cancer as he couldn't feel anything (gasp) and it was probably just an ache he had. Well I didn't think you could tell testicular cancer from just feeling.... the other vet said she would have to do tests.... so I'm just up in the air at the moment. I don't think my local vet likes me using the other vet as he was rather annoyed this time that I couldn't remember the treatment she gave Percy for the e.coli infection...and said they should have faxed the details etc so I got the impression he wasn't best pleased I went there. I am trying to do the best for my baby so I will go where I need to go....but I'm getting so stressed about it all as I'm not getting anywhere with anyone and my poor darling is suffering because of it.

 

Thanks again for your help, as usual it is very much appreciated.

 

Chrissie

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It could either be kidney or testicular. Budgie testis are right up in their abdomen next to the kidneys so you can't feel them.

My budgie died from testicular tumour recently. He had terrible polyuria (lots of wee) and drank heaps. He also favoured one of his legs too. He did a bit of wing flicking as well and would sit on his perch as if he had sunk into it. All hunched over.

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I am thinking that the vet says it is cancer due to the fact of him ( the bird not the vet :D ) holding the one leg ..

But I would say a Tumor of the Kidneys as he has watery poos and the tumor is putting pressure onto the siatic nerve ..

 

Best to get some test done ... I am not a Qualified Vet to say this - It is only my opinion from a lot of research that i did with illness and dieases .....

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My budgie had "watery poo" and he had a testicular tumour. Polyuria is excess urine production, which makes a budgie dropping look watery. The testis are right up next to the kidneys so they can also put pressure on the sciatic nerve.

Edited by Sailorwolf

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It could either be kidney or testicular. Budgie testis are right up in their abdomen next to the kidneys so you can't feel them.

My budgie died from testicular tumour recently. He had terrible polyuria (lots of wee) and drank heaps. He also favoured one of his legs too. He did a bit of wing flicking as well and would sit on his perch as if he had sunk into it. All hunched over.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that Sailorwolf, how devastating for you in your loss {{hugs}}. Reading this and what others have to say, I am thinking that this is happening to Percy. As you've described here, he is doing lots of wee...really wet on the paper, more so at the moment than solid poo, also hunching over his perch at times...oh dear...I am going to have to get him diagnosed aren't I?

 

As for recent events. The Ceftazidime didn't have a good affect on him. After the injection on Tuesday, he hardly did any poo's at all and didn't eat much either. Thursday night no poos at all and again not eating. I weighed him yesterday morning, he was down to 40 grms (usually 50) and although he was chirpy and flying about, you could see he'd lost the weight. My avian vet who gave him the injection on Tuesday wasn't there last night but I was told to see another vet because Percy had to have the second Ceft injection. I decided that since he'd gone downhill after the first one I wouldn't let him have it done and I'm glad I didn't. The vet I saw was new to the practice and not at all au fait with birds, he told me that himself. He did however say Percy had a lot of muscle wastage and he needed to eat. He gave me some Baytril to put in his water over the next 5 days so I will try that. I am pleased to say that last night Percy was eating and drinking again....phew and was being his mischievious self for some of the time.

 

No one seems to want to diagnose Percy's gut problem, the infections are secondary to the real cause but they don't come up with anything. Similary the leg problem where one vet told me it "could" be testicular cancer and my local vet has said he can't feel anything and it's probably not. But with all that you've said here it seems more than likely to me that it is....why is it that the "worst" of the avian vets is the closest one...sigh!

 

I will try and sort something out on Monday and as our the local vets seem useless and the nearest other avian vet (15 miles away) is on holiday for three weeks, I'm going to have my work cut out. But as you all know, we will do anything for our darling birds even to the extent of paying £100's of pounds (in Percy's case) to keep them going. The vets bills here are horrendous...a guy walked in to pick up two small bottle of tablets for his dog last night £68 he paid.....and that's just for the tablets. I'm just glad that people do pay though as I hate to think of the poor animals suffering....

 

Take care everyone and thank you so much for your help.

 

Chrissie

Edited by classylady

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Yes. My boy lost a lot of weight aswell. He used to be obese! But before he passed away he was quite light. It sounds like a testicular or kidney tumor, just by going on how similar he sounds to my little fella. But there are many things that present similarly. I think you should bring up the possibility of tumor next time you see the vet.

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Have they done a crop sample??? Feeling for a tumor - If they were able to test by feeling it , I would say that it is too late - Better to get a test done early so he has a chance of recovery if it is that .... I would ask for a gut sample and go from there .. Good luck

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I think you really need to get into the avian vet I thought you were already going there. Three weeks on vacation WOW must be nice and he doesn't have anyone covering for him?

 

You do need a diagnosis.

 

What type of tests have they ever done on Percy since this issues started?

 

A tumor should be ruled out by an x-ray.

Kidney Issues by blood tests.

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I think you really need to get into the avian vet I thought you were already going there. Three weeks on vacation WOW must be nice and he doesn't have anyone covering for him?

 

You do need a diagnosis.

 

What type of tests have they ever done on Percy since this issues started?

 

A tumor should be ruled out by an x-ray.

Kidney Issues by blood tests.

 

Hi Elly

 

They have in the past done blood and fecal tests and one vet did an xray. They diagnosed the liver disease from the blood test and then a couple of years later the xray revealved he had enlarged liver. I have seen 4 avian vets... well 3 and a half really as my local vet, although down as avian, he sees other animals too and he's the one I have least confidence in. I feel I've been let down by the vets over the 6 yrs, the best one being the female "exotic species" vet who is the one on 3 weeks holiday. She seemed to know what she was talking about and was the one who said Percy could have testicular cancer because of the leg problem, but she didn't offer tests at the time.

 

Percy has gone from eating quite a bit this morning to eating not much at all this afternoon and evening. He doesn't seem to want his pellets or his seed and so I am giving him digestive biscuit when he will take it, even though I know it's not good for him but he IS eating it and in fact only wants our food. I am going to try and get him an appt with the vet who did the xray 2 yrs ago, he moved practice and I've just found him again so I will email him and see if he will help. It's a long drive and neither of us are in the best of health ourselves so it is all a strain and lots of stress as you may imagine. I feel that Percy is going down now, he is still talking at times, but for several hours he has been asleep or fluffed up on his perch. I've held his seed and pellets up to him and he just picks them up and drops them, I've done the same with brocolli and he pulls the florets off and drops them so I just had to try the biscuit which he is really going for. As far as I'm concerned if he will eat something then it might just help him.....I'm soooo upset now I'm really at my wits end at what to do. The poos when he does them are black still and with water at other times..... and all this has gone this way since that ****** injection of ceftazidime. I know he had a gut problem before I took him to the vet, but he was eating well and going to poo even if it was stuck to him.... but the injection put paid to all that.

 

I don't know what to say.....maybe this is going towards the end, not that I want to think about it but it's going to happen one day isn't it? I will still try my best and do what I can for my darling baby, he still cuddles up when he can and is flying when he's out of the cage, but for how much longer......

 

hugs to everyone

Chrissie x

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WOW you have done so much and not to have a complete diagnosis that is frustrating I wish I had answers for you. I would go with what you are doing on when he doesn't eat is regular seed because you always want to make sure he is eating. I am sorry I wish I could be more help :hap:

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WOW you have done so much and not to have a complete diagnosis that is frustrating I wish I had answers for you. I would go with what you are doing on when he doesn't eat is regular seed because you always want to make sure he is eating. I am sorry I wish I could be more help :)

 

Thanks for your help though Elly, it's comforting to know that people care. He has bucked up a little this morning (Sunday), doesn't really want his food so I mixed up some breakfast cereal in water to go to a mash and he loved it. Droppings are still few and far between and still mostly black though some are soft grey again. He just wants us to be with him which is understandable, but he is chirping, flying around and getting annoyed.... my Percy seems on the way back. I've emailed an avian vet who lives over 20 miles away and hopefully if Percy is okay to travel we will take him there IF he will see him. We need to know exactly what is going on re the leg problem and also if the Ceftazidime has caused this latest problem. I feel it has as he was eating and drinking fine before it, the only problem was the usual one, poo's sticking to him and really green stained. Thank again for your support, I will keep you posted.

 

hugs

Chrissie

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Yes please keep us posted. ((hugs))

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Ohhhh Mate. I really hope that you can get him to an avian vet soon and get an answer!!

 

Thinking of you and Percy ((HUGS))

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Just looked Ceftazidime up in my notes. It doesn't say much. Only that it is a 3rd generation Cephalosporin (it's used against gram negative and anaerobic bacteria). Cephalosporin is the name of the family of drugs that ceftazidime comes from.

It has moderate action against gram positive bacteria, very good action against Gram negative bacteria and good against Pseudomonas.

It says that third and forth generations should not be used in animals and only reserved in people to prevent the chance of resistance developing.

 

Allergic reactions can occur and super-infections of the GI tract have been reported. (I would be expecting diarrhoea though if that was the case).

But other than that it says nothing. If you are worried that the antibiotic has killed off intestinal flora, you could probably try giving him some plain yoghurt. to restore some goodies into his intestines. See what the vet says about it.

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Yes please keep us posted. ((hugs))

 

Monday Morning...

 

Last night Percy came to more and was eating our food and even a little of his seed. He was coming over to me and was playing a little while too. I can't tell you what that meant to me. His poo's are still mostly water which"squirts" out of him. Droppings overnight were, as has been most nights, very little and this morning he is very fluffed and on his swing (his perch). He did however come out to eat some boiled egg which he loves which I'm pleased about but he is very unwell now with him just sitting/sleeping.

 

I am desperately trying to find an avian vet... in fact the one who is over 20 miles away has just replied to my email for me to phone them so hopefully Percy will be seen today. Again I will keep you posted....I don't know what I'd do without the good folk on here who have seen me through lots of difficult times over the years - thank you all.

 

hugs

Chrissie

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Oh my I am sorry that he is going down hill? I don't know if raspberry cordial or the apple cider mix would help if he doesn't drink it himself maybe you can give it to him?

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Hi again,

 

Tuesday morning...

 

I took Percy to the vet yesterday afternoon (I used to see this avian vet but he'd moved from the practice and I didn't know where). He said Percy needed to be hospitalised and is going to keep him in until Wednesday. Said he would crop feed him, give him antibiotics and also x-ray him re the leg etc. I was upset at leaving Percy of course, but also relieved, as though a weight had been lifted off of me. I guess that's because I've been watching him deteriorate and could do nothing for him and at least now he stands a chance. Mark, the vet, said he would phone me today and let me know how things were....so I'm keeping everything crossed that my baby comes through this. I STILL feel his deterioration is down to that ruddy injection, god knows what it's done to him and I'm trying to find out if it was safe for birds...written to the company about it but not sure if I will get a reply. Percy was eating and drinking BEFORE the injection but went downhill as soon as he had it.

 

Again I will keep you posted and again, thanks everyone for being there for Percy and me.

 

Chrissie

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