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Joey

Egg Bound Hen

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One of my hens that is breeding right now is egg bound and I don't know how she has been getting vitamins and they have a cuttlebone plus I have been giving them egg food and fruits & vegetables. I have no idea how she got egg bound...

 

Anyways I noticed last night she was breathing a bit heavy and her wings were a little drooped, her tail clicking. I gave her some vitamin drops followed by a few drops of water. I'm going to try that again in a few minutes.

 

The last time I tried to help me other egg bound female a few months ago I lost her I put a heat pad in an aquarium, put a towel on top and put her on the towel and lightly covered her with a pillow case. I than rubbed oil around her vent and left her alone for 30 minutes. I came back to check on her she didn't pass it so I gently pushed and worked the egg out. Unfortunately her whole uterus came out with it and...yeah

 

Any help please?

 

eggboundbudgie001.jpg

 

eggboundbudgie002.jpg

 

I'm not taking her to the vet I don't have the money for that right now, if I did I would but I dont...

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Joey, cuttlebone is NOT the sole source of calcium everyone sees it as being for breeding birds. Most birds just chew it up and play with it rather than use it. I think I may have suggested before liquid calcium in their water prior to breeding. You know and so does everyone else, you cannot fix an eggbound hen with little experience and by trying to push the eggs out. I cannot believe you did it the last time and lost your other hen the way you did. :) The vitamin drops wont help at all. Liquid calcium would be better than that. Your bird is at a stage where it does need vet care, but you have said you wont take her, like the last hen in the same position and she died. What can we do ? We give good advice about preparation for breeding, right ages of the birds and the need for parental help and support and money for emergency vet treatment before you begin this "hobby" . This is very sad :(.....................................................................http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....c=16778&hl=

 

 

FAQ article on eggbound hens http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/faqs/i...=eggbound%20hen

Edited by KAZ

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Joey, that bird needs to see an avian vet NOW! I'm sure she is in severe pain.

 

If the same thing happened to another bird several months ago, they are not getting the nutrients they need. You might think about not breeding them as you need to figure out what is lacking in their diet and environment, and determine what needs to be done to turn it around. Cuttlebone is not a very viable source of calcium, and can contain contaminants. Bioavailability of the calcium in cuttlebone is poor, a much better source would be calcium-rich foods as the calcium contained in those is many times better absorbed by the body, and also contains other nutrients necessary for optimal health.

 

Please take your bird to the veterinarian.

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I have only run into egg binding with budgies...and The first time which was about 4 years ago she survived. The second hen did not...This hen well she survived I got it out of her, I gave her a few more vitamin drops followed by some water and held her in a towel over running hot water. The steam helped her I guess because I rubbed vegetable oil around her vent and pushed upwards until I could see the tip of the uterus and she pushed 4 times and out came the egg. Shes fine now and I think she feels much better.Yes if I had the money I would have brought her but I can't just pull out $100.00 or more out of my pocket. The birds pay for this hobby I breed them I sell them and they pay for themselves when it gets to be more than that its not fun anymore.

Joey, cuttlebone is NOT the sole source of calcium everyone sees it as being for breeding birds. Most birds just chew it up and play with it rather than use it. I think I may have suggested before liquid calcium in their water prior to breeding. You know and so does everyone else, you cannot fix an eggbound hen with little experience and by trying to push the eggs out. I cannot believe you did it the last time and lost your other hen the way you did. :fear The vitamin drops wont help at all. Liquid calcium would be better than that. Your bird is at a stage where it does need vet care, but you have said you wont take her, like the last hen in the same position and she died. What can we do ? We give good advice about preparation for breeding, right ages of the birds and the need for parental help and support and money for emergency vet treatment before you begin this "hobby" . This is very sad :(.....................................................................http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....c=16778&hl=FAQ article on eggbound hens http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/faqs/i...=eggbound%20hen
She didn't suffer Kaz I rather not talk about how it ended :(:)

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If you can't get her to a vet put two drops of Olive oil to the vent. It will be drawn in and then place her in a warm place. Hospital cage if you have one.

I would also give one drop of Calcivet to the beak.

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hey, just a quick question...

you say cuttle bone isnt enough calcium... i provide my birds cuttle bone as well as calcium and iodine bells? is this sufficient enough .... cuttle bone is not always avaliable to them but the bells are all around the aviary and one in each breeding cage constantly?

if not is there anything else i can provide them with to boost calcium levels? or should this be enough?

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Calcivet is very good.

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You must also give a Vitamin D suppliment. They need the vitamin D to process the Calcium and phosphorus. Cod liver oil is a good source of Vitamin D.

 

Calcivet = Contains Calcium, Vitamin D3

 

Guaranteed Analysis:

Calcium (Ca++) as Calcium borogluconate 33g/L

Vitamin D3 25000i.u/L

Edited by Daz

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You must also give a Vitamin D suppliment. They need the vitamin D to process the Calcium and phosphorus. Cod liver oil is a good source of Vitamin D.

 

Calcivet = Contains Calcium, Vitamin D3

 

Guaranteed Analysis:

Calcium (Ca++) as Calcium borogluconate 33g/L

Vitamin D3 25000i.u/L

How Can You Tell if a Hen Has egg bound?

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If you can't get her to a vet put two drops of Olive oil to the vent. It will be drawn in and then place her in a warm place. Hospital cage if you have one.

I would also give one drop of Calcivet to the beak.

 

I agree 100% with Daz. I had one hen who looked like she was uncomfortable, so she went into a heated hospital with the front covered and a wide dish of shallow water inside to create a humid environment. She passed her egg overnight. Had she not done so, she would have been straight off to the vet.

 

 

hey, just a quick question...

you say cuttle bone isnt enough calcium... i provide my birds cuttle bone as well as calcium and iodine bells? is this sufficient enough .... cuttle bone is not always avaliable to them but the bells are all around the aviary and one in each breeding cage constantly?

if not is there anything else i can provide them with to boost calcium levels? or should this be enough?

 

All budgies need a healthy diet which includes 30% seed, 30% pellets, 30% fresh foods and 10% treats such as honey sticks, millet etc. Their water should be changed daily to avoid build up of bacteria and they should always have access to a cuttlefish bone (or calcium bell or block) and an iodine block. This gives budgerigars access to all of their daily needs.

 

However a budgie that you intend to use for breeding requires a higher dose of calcium, along with sufficient vitamin D, which enables to hen to absorb the calcium.

 

Having said that though any budgie would benefit from the occassional dose of a liquid vitamin, such as calcivet.

 

Libby, click this link to get more information: Is My BUdgie Getting Enough Calcium

 

 

How Can You Tell if a Hen Has egg bound?

 

 

Read this article: Eggbound Hen

 

 

 

Feathers.

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Feathers Is this egg bound

Example: Does It Have a red LINE through the upper body and near the bom where they lay the eggs does it go every second opening and shouting if so ill show u her bom for u.Thanks feathers.Cheerrs.Nathan

Edited by KAZ

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Feathers Is this egg bound

Example: Does It Have a red LINE through the upper body and near the bom where they lay the eggs does it go every second opening and shouting if so ill show u her bom for u.Thanks feathers.Cheerrs.Nathan

 

:rip: Could you ask the question again Nathan1 ?

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Feathers Is this egg bound

Example: Does It Have a red LINE through the upper body and near the bom where they lay the eggs does it go every second opening and shouting if so ill show u her bom for u.Thanks feathers.Cheerrs.Nathan

 

:rip: Could you ask the question again Nathan1 ?

I Said If there is a line though where the eggs come outis that egg bound

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Feathers Is this egg bound

Example: Does It Have a red LINE through the upper body and near the bom where they lay the eggs does it go every second opening and shouting if so ill show u her bom for u.Thanks feathers.Cheerrs.Nathan

 

:rip: Could you ask the question again Nathan1 ?

I Said If there is a line though where the eggs come outis that egg bound

No.

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/faqs/i...&artlang=en

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Joey,

 

I don't think that people should try pushing eggs out of eggbound hens on their own. If you break that egg inside the female, you've guaranteed her death by egg yolk peritonitis.

 

The following is actually on zebra finches, but should apply to budgies.

 

These are quotes from the zebrafinch yahoo list:

 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/zebrafinch/messages/79500

 

To quote a paragraph from page 59-60 of Chris Blackwell's 1988

book "Keeping and Breeding Zebra Finches", 'When a hen becomes egg

bound, under no circumstances should any attempt be made to dislodge

the egg physically. Treatments such as oiling the vent, or holding

the bird over a streaming kettle, belong to a medieval chamber of

horrors, and are not part of a birdkeeper's repertoire. If the egg

is broken before being laid by the hen, this will certainly result in

the bird dying, so remember to handle affected birds as carefully and

calmly as possible. Should a hospital cage not be available, egg-

bound birds should be brought indoors and kept as warm as possible,

but not placed where they could be affected by harmful fumes.'

 

Please Please Please do not try to push an egg out of a hen's vent.

This is very bad advice in my opinion and in the opinion of many

other breeders on this list. A finch's egg is so delicate and if it

breaks, the hen will surely get egg yolk peritonitis and die. There

really is no cure for it. Once you've broken the egg inside her,

kiss her goodbye. It will take her a few days to die from the

peritonitis, but she will almost always die.

 

And a good response by a vet:

 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/zebrafinch/message/79064

 

Re: the concept of oil for egg binding

 

 

Sara

 

>I will re-iterate that I understand well enough the problem of hypocalcaemia. However, if the episode is urgent, I must make some assumptions:

>1. There is no time for extra calcium supplementation.

 

This is where you are looking at it wrongly. It is not the physical presence of the unlaid egg that presents the urgency, it is the hypocalcaemia. The bird is only going to die due to hypocalcaemia and hypothermia, not presence of the egg. Treating cases in pet birds in my vet clinic, I happily allow birds 2-3days to lay the egg, if all else is well. It will happen once the hypocalcaemia is resolved.

 

It is true that an unlaid egg may eventually stick to the membranes of the uterus, but it may equally retropulse into the abdomen and become free inside. I have performed exploratory surgery on birds to remove an egg from the uterus, only to find it floating in the abdomen. If I tried to manually express that egg I would have killed the bird.

 

The only time I would attempt physical expression of an egg is if it was very low down in the cloaca, rather than still up in the uterus. There are procedures for extracting the contents of the egg and crushing it prior to removal for higher eggs, but the stress of the procedure usually kills very small birds.

 

>2. In the absence of the hen's ability to contract her muscles, the problem can be simplified to that of a prolate spheroid lodged in a flexible tube (well, >a very precious and fragile tube). When she cannot oviposit on her own, effectively, the egg is "physically stuck in the reproductive tract."

 

>In this case, lubrication and applied pressure is a natural solution.

 

Whilst this may seem logical, unfortunately it does not address the problem that is not the egg, but the blood calcium levels.

 

To give a direct analogy, we have eclampsia in mammals (aka milk fever). These animals seizure due to low blood calcium associated with milk production. If you treated the apparent problem (the seizures) with appropriate drugs to merely control the seizures, the animal will die. Instead we give calcium and the seizures stop.

 

 

>The claim that little oil can rise to the ****** is unfounded since I can calculate just how much it can rise by capillary action equation. The burden of >proof lies with you now, and you should be the one to provide testimony as to why capillarity and wetting does not apply in this special circumstance.

 

As far as capillary action is concerned, we are not dealing with inert solid tubular objects. These are biological. There are natural controls at the end of the reproductive tract to prevent movement of all the wastes from both the bowel and kidneys up the egg duct. If these biological systems can prevent retrograde movement of those liquid substances, it is logical that they will also prevent your capillary movement of lubricants. If the egg is sitting in the cloaca, then lubrication will reach it, otherwise no way unless you use a catheter up the egg duct.

 

>So please tell me what is the danger of lubrication (aside from the effect of oil on feather keratins).

 

The reason why more knowledgeable breeders speak against the oil is because its use is a distraction from addressing the real problem for beginners. And unless the underlying hypocalcaemia and metabolic problems are addressed, the bird will fall ill repeatedly and eventually likely to die, even if it is 'saved' the first time.

 

Terry Martin BVSc

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Thankyou Lisachromis for that very pertinent information. ;)

I would hate the fact that any of our young members on this forum would read what Joey has done and see it as a solution instead of veterinary treatment. Unless you are educated as an avian vet and know the inner workings of your budgerigar in utmost detail, manipulating and forcibly pressing on a budgies abdomen could kill the bird. :D If indeed you have succeeded this time Joey ( not forgetting the last time and the bird died ) ...if you really have succeeded...it would only be by sheer luck, not skill or "smarts" that has allowed the bird to come through this.

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Guest *BUUZBEE*

Joey... What happened with the hen? Is she okay?

 

 

I think this is a good example as to why people shouldn't breed if they are not prepaired for emergencies, and this DOES include having a vet fund for emergencies. This really saddens me.

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She herself is fine, not mentally because I woke up today and she killed my light green spangle cock bird. :D I found him inside the nest box, eyes chewed oout and his cere gone. I'm not breeding this hen ever again. I might give her to a friend of mine.

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Guest Phoebe

:ygbudgie: Joey, she probably did this as she is in pain and is sick, don't give her away, take her to a vet, Buzzbee is totally correct, STOP the breeding for now!!! Take a look at yourself and become a responsible breeder! :D

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I have to agree with Phoebe here. The hen is in pain and sick. To give her away right now signs her death warrant as she will be moved again under stress conditions ( stress equals illness ) and not in peak physical health :D

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Joey,

 

what a very sad outcome for this hen. Don't blame her for what she did to the cock, it really isn't her fault. He may have been trying to tend to her, as any good cock would, but if she is in a pain state she would reject his help and peck at him to stop. The cock, by nature, would continue to try to help her, despite any injuries he might recieve. That is what has gone wrong.

 

This hen needs care, preferably vet attention, but if that is not available please provide her with quality food, including soft foods and calcium suppliments and keep a close eye on her. Moving her at the moment is the worst possible thing you could do for her.

 

 

Feathers.

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I would also reconsider your breeding set up. If you are unable to afford an avian vet for your birds then you really need not be breeding. I am sure I will get attacked for saying that but it is true. Continuing your breeding set-up without having sufficient funds to vet your birds is wrong and you are potentially letting any of your birds that get sick, eggbound or whatever suffer a very painful death. In my book that is animal abuse.

 

Chow....

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The birds pay for this hobby I breed them I sell them and they pay for themselves when it gets to be more than that its not fun anymore.

 

Perhaps from the sale of a few birds you could start a fund for any emergency vet care in the future Joey ?

Edited by KAZ

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I MSNed him the other day since I was also worried about the bird, and he told me that she was doing alot better.

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