Inbreeding In Budgies? Mixed Feelings?

[hops523 0]

Hey all, I have read a few different articles online about breeding budgies. I didnt know much about inbreeding in budgies, so I did a search on it. I came across an article that said if you want to carry certain genes then it is okay to inbreed. For example: I think it said if you breed a mother budgie and the son, then you will be carrying out the mothers genes, and vise versa with the father and daughter. But I have also come across a few articles that say make sure to get budgies that are not related if you want to breed. What are your opinions on inbreeding? Just to say I am not going to inbreed, actually I cant even breed right now, my budgies are either too young or too old. I just wanted to know.

[jenene283 0]

I have always been told not to inbreed any sort of animal, whether it be a bird, dog, cow or anything. I'm not an expert on the subject and I'm sure you will receive some expert advise on this forum but personally I wouldnt be doing it and I take particular care not to pair up related birds when choosing breeding pairs.

[Paulh29 0]

It's okay to breed mother to son, daughter to father,

but not sister to brother.

 

Cheers

[Daz 0]

In breeding or Line breeding is the same thing, basically. It is a process by which you build up a gene pool in the aviary. Most Breeders of Show animals do this. It is designed to strengthen or enhanse features in the Animal.

 

Some don't practice line breeding as close as Father Daughter, Mother Son or Brother sister.

Most usually breed Uncle to niece, Aunt to Nephew, or Cousen to Cousen.

 

It is something that occurs a great deal with in the wild or in your Aviary if you coloney breed.

 

Some people here are greatly apposed to it. It is a matter of opinion and morrals.

[Guest Lin]

I believe that to do it successfully you need a very good knowledge of genetics (lets me out, straight off ) You also need to know the genetics of the birds you plan to breed back at least 5 generations - so that you can be sure not to breed too many generations that are related.

 

I don't think it is right at all, but, lets face it, it happens in all animals - dogs, cats, sheep etc. That is how we have the breeds we have, and the colours that we have. I just think that it should be done very carefully and responsibly.

 

Good topic for discussion, actually, looking forward to hearing everyone's opinions

[**KAZ** 0]

I dont allow interbreeding amongst my stock of birds. Maybe its just a feeling of "incest"....but thats just me. I had to separate a potential pair the other day that was father and daughter. Whilst those that breed for showing purposes do feel the need to interbreed to correct faults or strengthen bloodlines or whatever........I don't think it's a necessary thing to be getting into with pet budgies for any reason. Not without a very good knowledge base of genetics and the whys and wherefores involved. My opinion for what it's worth.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Bubbles

[*Nerwen* 0]

That basically how I feel Karen. I don't see the point of line breeding in a stock like I have which is simply for me to enjoy, and gain the 'fun' of watching baby budgie growing each day. Budgies are not a bird that stand on the edge of extinction, each and every baby is not important to keeping the species alive, and it's very easy to get 'fresh blood' into your flock.

 

BUT I can also see the reasons why some show breeders will use Line breeding, this might be because my grandfather, who showed chickens and was a well known breeder around the local area. He used line breeding correctly, breeders do not want strengthen weaknesses in their potential show winner. I think the ones that don't use this correctly are breeders that are only out for a buck, the 'puppy mills' of the bird world.

[Daz 0]

I would like to thank those that have commented to this topic. It can be a volitile issue and those that have commented have put their views forward in a positive way. Thank you.

[Guest Phoebe]

The retired budgie breeder that told me to let my "breeding without a nest box guys go ahead with it "said her best breeders were a mother and son and they raised a couple of clutches of 10 eggs! I really didn't like the idea of it at all, she said, it is okay to do for a couple a clutches to avoid congenital abnormalities and then separate them and never allow them to breed again but I still think the idea is pretty gross.

 

But then we know I know absolutely zero about breeding but it doesn't seem right somehow.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Phoebe

[**KAZ** 0]

When you boil it all down, it would happen anyway without interference from us, out there in nature. So, it would be part of what makes our budgies of today what they are. It's just when it comes to our own feelings on the matter and the thing in our brain that tells us it's WRONG ...that we baulk at the very idea of it. I don't condemn any show breeder who does, as they will know a lot more about genetics and all that goes with it, than we do. So Live and let live.

[Daz 0]

Budgerigars are programmed not to recognise there young. (or so we are told) and this in the wild is a good feature to have. Australia is not a kind habitat for Budgerigars and many die each year so this feature helps the species to survive.

 

Now I am not saying it is good or bad just the way it is in the wild.

[hops523 0]

Yes, I am extremely glad so many of you responded, and had really great opinions on this topic. This is a very hard topic to dicuss about I think.

thanks

[hath 0]

i to would like to thank the people for their responces, with pet birds their is no need to evan closly breed relatives we do use linje breeding in show birds i have use it my self but at the moment dont as i am improving on quality at the moment (because of what happened to my original stud) so am using out crosses

[Daz 0]

I, like hath have no problems with line breeding, but don't do this at the moment as I am building a stock base and buying in outcrosses.

 

But would probibly not breed brother sister, father daughter, mother son.

[Bea 0]

I heard inbreeding can potentially shorten the offsprings lives and increases the chances of diseases and weaknesses that run in the family? How can a breeder determine that there aren't any hidden faults/illnesses before selecting a related pair?

[Daz 0]

I heard inbreeding can potentially shorten the offsprings lives and increases the chances of diseases and weaknesses that run in the family? How can a breeder determine that there aren't any hidden faults/illnesses before selecting a related pair?

 

 

A show breeder looks at the birds and notes their strengths and weaknesses. He tries to pair the birds to give a stronger more robust bird that has the features that are required on the show bench. I don't believe that the pairing of the birds causes weaknesses in health with the young but it can cause infertility. Weakness in the young can be caused by over breeding of a pair. Say the third or forth clutch, the hen is exhausted and her body can't give what is needed to form a good egg to begin with. That is the main cause for weak offspring (Runts)

 

How can a breeder determine that there aren't any hidden faults/illnesses before selecting a related pair? Good question Bea. With new birds (out crosses) you can't this is why we first should quarrentine them. Then it is the same as genetics. Untill the bird is breed a few times, you don't realy know what that bird is split from. Same as illness. There could be a genetic illness that can be past on to the young.

 

Many of the birds we all have have been breed from Breeders that line breed and the ones that don't measure up to the standard gets sold to pet shops where they are bought as adorible pets

Edited July 24, 2006 by daz

[adelaidegirl 0]

I had a mother son combination that paired off in the avairy. I hate destroying eggs so I left them. They raised two chick and although a little on the small side they are very healthy and are beautifully coloured. It has almost been a year since the chicks hatched! I hope not to let that happen again though.

[Guest eterri]

About the argument that "it would happen anyway..."

 

If these things happen in the wild, nature has a harsh way of culling the bad birds. The strongest survive, those that are inbred and weak will die, simple as that. This is why, while some mutations can occur in the wild, you don't see flocks of albino or blue budgies flying around. They stand out too much.

 

Personally, I am completely against inbreeding for the single reason that most people have no idea what their birds' backgrounds are and the fact that many genetic faults are hidden until finally brought out by an unlucky bird. And often, these faults just *can't* be seen for years. For instance, the offspring may appear perfectly healthy but it's not until they develop a tumor at age five that you realize they've done nothing to contribute to the longevity of the species.

 

There is no shortage of budgies in the world, that's an undeniable fact. But another fact is that inbreeding is taking its toll on life spans and quality of life in the budgie world. Take the show budgie for example. We put major emphasis on stockiness/build and weight. A large chest, for example. We call a bird with these solid traits beautiful (well, most people do) but the fact is, the very things we believe look great are what contribute to that shorter life span. I've seen many of these birds that actually just look sick to me. Not saying they were actually sick, but the point is that many of them don't look well in the sense of being a healthy, solid budgie.

 

These are birds that are meant to be streamlined. They're birds that are prone to fatty tumors (especially on the abdomen and on the back; two areas that show birds have had modified to the extreme) and problems related to obesity in general.

 

This is just my opinion, and I'm a bit biased as I'm tired of watching badly bred budgies die in my hands, but breeding responsibly should mean breeding birds that live longer, happier, healthier lives. Breeders should be tackling this huge problem with tumors rather than focusing on colors so much. Again, it's just my opinion.

[Guest Lin]

I would say that inbreeding happens in the wild less often than we think. In the wild they live in huge flocks, so have more partners to choose from. Instinctively they would choose a partner that would complement their genes - research is proving that this is actually true in humans as well, that we can sense a 'good' partner! Of course, humans ignore their senses far too often , but nature is very good at helping all species survive.

[**KAZ** 0]

Great debate. One thing to add, is that I have come across people who have stated I started with X amount of budgies and now have XXXX amount of budgies. They put them in an aviary and let them go for it. Evidence in these cases (from my own experience) was very much interbred birds. You could tell as each generation of these birds in these aviaries got smaller and weaker. Prettier yes by the mere evolution of colours coming from those nesting boxes.....but these birds were obvioulsy interbred and weak birds from my own observations. These were birds stocking petshops. Tiny little birds, with very small heads, weak feather production, and funny little beady eyes. Not what you would call a good healthy budgie as we know them.

Also, we would never know what happens in the wild for sure, as we can only base those theories on assumptions.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Bubbles

[hath 0]

if you leave birds to breed year after year within the same familly then yes this will weaken the birds but show birds arnt bred year after year outcrosses are used as well

[funkypanda 0]

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Edited September 29, 2012 by funkypanda

[Sagi medhat 0]

On 27/07/2006 at 12:11 PM, hath said:

if you leave birds to breed year after year within the same familly then yes this will weaken the birds but show birds arnt bred year after year outcrosses are used as well

This is the right answer

inbreeding is used for a while then the cross breeding come to light and geens will became stronger in next generations and so on 

Iam an inbreeder of hagromo rainbow budgies and i used the inbreeding in some clutches and every thing looked well but i used inbreeding for only a specific time , then now i must use the cross breeding by intering new fresh blood to avoid any problem that could happen in the future clutches 

Thanks to all 

[JimmyG 0]

Hi, I am quite new to breeding budgies. My pair have successfully reproduced, twice now, and I have all 4 "kids" in the same cage. I also managed to get 2 of each sex and they have now paired off and are basically doing their thing........ Should I let them breed? I have cages and nests....and at the moment they are just having sex but no eggs are being laid. I really don't know what to do? I don't wanna get in the way of love but......hmmmmmmm. I have to allow science to prevail on this one, and not personal morals. Please help

[JackRussel 0]

On 08/11/2020 at 12:40 AM, Sagi medhat said:

This is the right answer

inbreeding is used for a while then the cross breeding come to light and geens will became stronger in next generations and so on 

Iam an inbreeder of hagromo rainbow budgies and i used the inbreeding in some clutches and every thing looked well but i used inbreeding for only a specific time , then now i must use the cross breeding by intering new fresh blood to avoid any problem that could happen in the future clutches 

Thanks to all 

And if problems arise, it will be too late to solve them....