RIPbudgies

I beg to differ on the chickweed. It is a winter weed. I have a garden full of the stuff and now is the time for it to start setting seed. I have been feeding my breeders this non stop for months now. Milk Thistle however although cooler climate plant does not like it at the coolest time and is extremely prone to attack from Aphids during winter.

Cere colour in hens can vary a great deal. In good health a hen should be a light tan colour through to a dark nut brown. As far as cere colour goes for breeding condition the general rule is brown. I have found over the years though that cere colour should be coupled with behaviour. I had a hen breed many times and she never had a brown cere, it was always a whitish blue colour.

Throw all the eggs out and she should start again in a week or so. If you leave them in there she will clean out the nest in time but it will take longer. As a breeder if the eggs are infertile I use the pair as fosters or remove eggs and let the hen lay again. It all depends on what is going on in my birdroom at time. Depression is a human affliction. Don't get sucked in to putting human emotions onto animals. Just a word of advice re books. Not all the information you read is acurate. Authors also suffer the afflication of imparting human emotion onto animals. Anybody can write a book, you do have to be an authority to do so!

Kassidy your garden looks great. I see your soil is rocky. This will cause a problem with your root veggies. The carrots etc will tend to malform when they hit a rock or possiblly fork around them. Yoú could end up with some awesome shapes though and they will still be edible, just a pain to peel. You corn. Have you sown it lengthwise or in a block. Corn is grown in blocks to aid in the pollen reaching the corn tassles.

The length of time that a product will last is also based on how it is stored. Most containers will have a section informing the purchaser of the storage method i.e. refridgerate after opening, cool dark place etc. If not stored as directed it will lead to the ineffectiveness of the product. Vitamins are a classic example. Light and heat are the biggest enemies to vitamins.

okay people, I am definately not an Elvis fan but I do appreciate a good artist. I am always amazed at the tools and materials people find to use to create their masterpieces. This creation is truly outstanding. I know that I will see cheesepuffs in a whole different light now! http://www.wimp.com/cheesepuffs/

I have used veggie oil lots of times with no problems and yes it works fine. Apply once a day. Parrafin oil can also be used but it can 'scold' and cause feather loss. Patroleum Jelly can be used also. Vaseline is favoured by some people but prefer people use Petroleum Jelly as Vaseline is the same thing only it has other chemicals added where as the Petroleum Jelly is pure, but remember it is a petroleum based product so I don't recommend its use unless really necessary. As for the last photo. Baby birds have cere colours ranging from black, bluish and pink. Most baby males show pink and blackish and where as hens show bluish and blackish. This is an average so there are allways exceptions to the rule. Size, shape and texture of the cere also plays a part. Generally with babies texture is not an issue as it is new growth and not yet formed any horney keratineous layers (usually in hens). Male ceres are generally smallish and bulbous where as hens tend to be larger and flatter. But again I have seen some males with quite large ceres but they were most definately pink. Again, exceptions to the rule. Another way to tell sex is by palpation of the pelvic bones but this is not 100% certain in young birds. In cocks the space is extremely narrow where as in hens the space will be wider. Variations exist in different family lines. Another way of telling but certainly not accurate is comparing siblings. Hens tend to be flatter in the head than cocks but this again is not accurate as in show birds especially there are those hens referred to as 'cock headed'. Last but not least is attitude. Again not accurate but rather a guide. Hens tend to be more nippy, usually bite harder and tend to hang on. Over time you will get the hang of it.

The first three appear to be cocks. The fourth one is a little hard to tell for sure. The last one looks like hen. Scaley face is caused by a mite (Knemidokoptic pilae) and as already mentioned is contagious with some birds being more susceptable than others. One of the cheapest and easily obtained cures around is vegatable oil. Every body usually has it in there kitchen. It works simply by filling the tunnels formed by the burrowing activties of the mite thereby suffocating them. Make sure the oil is applied to the skin around the eyes, beak, cere and don't forget the feet. Application can be done with a small artists paint brush or a cotton bud.

I think that is an issue we have all dealt with at one time or another. To alleviate the problem I put branches in up-side down, this makes sure they cannot 'slide' down a branch and get caught. Besides they would have a clue if the branches were right side up or not. I find it also helps them exercise there better as it seems much harder for them to actually perch on a branch in this position.

Well going on the new photos there does not appear much difference between the parents but having said that the dad does appear slightly darker. He just doesn't look Dark Green to me. There are variations within each colour. He just looks like a darker Light Green. I currently have a Light Green chick just fledged last couple days and the colour is absolutely superb. There is a possibilitly that the cock is split for Slate. Slate Light Greens resemble Dark Greens. The fact that this youngster and the Recessive are both hens and also both look Dark Green is inline with the Slate inheritance. Also Jodie, as you are based in England it is quite possible that birds will turn up from time to time with Slate in there background. Can you trace the history of these birds as this may help you further. There are a few breeders of Slates in the UK and they must get rid of excess birds somewhere, pet shops maybe, they are not a hugely popular variety over there.

I am having an idea what we could be dealing with here but at this stage of the query I would rather not say. Like nubbly suggested, pics of parents in the same photo so to replicate exact same conditions. To get better photos do not take under incandesant light (light bulb), put them outside but not in direct sunlight. DO NOT use a flash!

Jodie, in the pics you posted earlier in the thread you have two Recessive Pieds. I can see one is a baby but I cannot see the other too well to determine if it is an adult or not. Can you confirm it's age. As already mentioned the parents of the chick look like Light Greens. Violet Light Greens are darker so it does not look like you have and violet factor floating around. Is it possible that the Recessive Pied, if it is an adult, is the other parent as that bird is a Dark Green.

Your right, they are hatched with black eyes. I forgot to mention the fact that most are also Cinnamon as Cinnamon is used to reduce suffusion. Same goes for Black Eyes i.e Cinnamon Dilutes. See what happens when ya post on the fly.

:rofl: :rofl: Yup, know exactly where ya coming from there Nubbs!

I am completely with you on this Kaz. I always thought those snugglehuts and things were for things like rats, ferrets etc. Kaz are they marketed for birds?

You can't go past GB's actually experience. However as she says the end result from her experience is not necessarily goning to bring the same end result or side effects in another. I have have watched many docos on this treament, usually they are ones highlighting the wide spread use of this treatment in an age when any new technology and/or technique was grabbed with open arms and used extensively. Little research was carried out on effects of this 'shock treament' therapy on patients. Today it is less widely practiced and is seen as a last result to conventional drug treatment. The brain is a marvel of evolution and no two brains are alike. They are the organic super computor and it receives, interprets and sends signals via electrical impluses at extraordinary speeds. ECT interupts these signals but it cannot target specfic ones hence the side effects that people such as GB suffer. For me personally I would not consider it. People with depression need help, no doubt about it. I have suffered with it since childhood, luckily these days with all the reading and doco watching I do I have come to understand it more and have a great doctor to work with. Just a word of warning on drugs prescribed for depression. PROZAC (is a SRI-Seretonin re-uptake inhibitor drug)and its derivitives are often given to combat depression. What most doctors don't tell you and patience very rearely read the leaflet that accompanies the pills, is that these drugs do treat depression but not in all cases. In some cases they make the depression worse and in some cases cause phobic episodes. These Prozac family drugs work by increasing the level of Seretonin in the brain. What they do not do is distinghish between those people who have low Seretonin levels from those who produce too much but cannot metabolise it as quickly as it should be. Thankfully I fall into the former group so these drugs will work on me but I prefer not to take them unless really, really necessary. You can;t just stop taking these drugs either, you must come off them slowly. Maesie, is you friend taking any Prozac family drug? This could be causing more harm than good. You can google Prozac and confirm all what I have said above. You will also find articles on regarding current court cases in the USA to do with prople who are suddenly nice one day and then suddenly go on a killing spree due to phsycotic episodes from the use of these drugs. I am not trying to scare you maesie but rather to inform you and get you looking deeply into this subject of depression. I had a friend who was on a Prozac drug and it was not doing him any good at all. I convinced him to get off the stuff and deal with depression in others ways and he has since been a lot better. Here is a short list of stuff your friend can do. 1. Keep only positive people around you. If people are going to negative, try and laugh it off or walk away or ask them to leave as this is not what you want right now. 2. Support from friends and family at any time day and night. 3. Outings to favourite places. 4. If you love music (one of my personal favourites) put it on. Fill you day with it, Crank it up if you want. Find mediative music, for me it is stuff like Enigma, Sirroco, Enya, Film scores like Gladiator, darken the room, put mattress on the floor, take the phone off the hook, put the music on a chill out. You can go to therapist that deal with meditaive techniques. Ever laid on the lawn at night and just watched the universe go by? 5. If you love animals, hang with them as much as possible. Horses got me through a great deal as a child as my home life was pretty ****. They listen with 100% attention, don't judge you and love you unconditionally. 6. Diet. Believe it or not. No junk food or limit to say once a month as treat. A balanced diet is good for the body. Go back to basics. Grow you own veggies if you have room but if you are a bad gardener don't attempt this as dead plants will be seen as failure and therefore negative and will work against you. Keep the processes foods to an absolute minimum. 7. Lighting has an effect on people. These days we get way too much than we should putting our circadian rythem out of whack. There are many forms of lighting out there, maybe change some globes in the house, if possible. Reduce exposure. I turn off lights at night when watching TV as the reduced amount of light allows production of the chemical melatonin which will make you drowsy and help you fall asleep. Sleep is important, but not too much or too little, the average required by most people is around 7 hours per night. I hope I havn't dribbled on too much maesie. I hope you friend finds the help he/she requires. Last word of advice. Don't be afraid to change doctors.

Congrats SC.

I also attended the show with my first crop of youngsters. Been a good 7 years since I put a bird on the bench and stuffed up the cage sticker. I took all UBC's and forgot about it and put young bird class no's on. Gina comes over and asks "so did you put them all in UBC". Oh dear! So it is then decided to leave them as is cause it don't really matter anyhow and reclass the best one, an Opaline hen, in the UBC class. The judges bless em had realised some twit (namely myself) had obviously stuffed up and were prepared to reclass them but they weren't allowed too. Oh well. As I said didn't really matter as being UBC's they can't go any further than a win in their respective classes. Gina did have some strong competition and the Grey did aquite himself very well indeed. :rofl: Congrats to the G & G stud. There were some very nice rare varieties shown on the day with some super Lacewings and a very nice Recessive Pied. A good contingent of Clearwings and Fallows. It was a good show, lovely day out and some super eats provided for the hungry travellers.

Can you post pics of his cere. Also full body pics so we can see the state of his being. As for the mice getting into the cage. This could well be your problem. When mice move around they constantly leave a trail of pee loaded with hormones etc. This is a trail to which other mice follow. This chemical cocktail is left on everything including the seed in the feeder. The bird can accidentally digest this cocktail simply by climbing cage bars, wiping his beak on the perches, nibbling edges of food/water bowls. You really will need to keep mice out. Lay baits or traps. If you are squemish about trapping and disposing of live mice there many traps on the market today that can help you deal with that.

Yep, if you don't like the mutation you are breeding, then there is no fun in it and you most likely lose interest. I will see how I go and I will probably read this in 12 months time and have completely different mutations in my aviary and lots of grey greens. I didn't like show types 12 months ago and now my aviary is full of them. I didn't like greys 6 months ago and now I have plenty in my aviary. :rofl: ...but i did have a likeing for creaminos 2 years ago. One more quick question: A YF Dominant Pied (class 19), would you show him in the Dominant Pied Class because number is higher than YF class 13?(or do you show him in the NSV/AOV class?) :question: gb, that would be great. cool will bring when i see you next but i kinda lent it to rachelam for a look but only as i couldnt find the book i was going to lend her so i will do swap at meeting next week as i found book she really needs to be reading If your interest in buying the book I have a couple of copies still cheaper than what you'll get it for at a pet shop or bird dealer. I have both soft and hard copies.

probbly better for small breeder like me rip where would i find these ??? You can get the same nipple drinkers that nubbly has used. A breeder over here who I caught up with a few weeks ago uses them in soft drink bottles. He has done this for ages. There is a company called Bellsouth who deal in a lot of poultry equipment. Here is the link to there site. http://www.bellsouth.com.au/webframe.html Look under the equipment heading.

All I have to say about that is that most of the so called Dilutes that bred these so called Greywings always turned out to be badly marked Greywings and the Dilutes often turn out to be extremely suffused, lightly marked Greywings. There is failure brought on by the pigeon hole mentality of the show world to see any deviation from what is an acceptable version of the variety. Interpretation of the results of these pairings will always lie in the ability of the person who bred them to be able to distingish the difference between the different 'dilute' alleles in all there good and bad points. It is usually this variety recognition where these people tend to fail badly. It must be remembered that when these alleles are bred together there will be influences from each that will found in the other. Clearwing modified Dilutes is a prime example. Dilutes from pairings to Clearwings often show reduced wing marking yet still retain the same level of body colour. These birds are NOT 'clearwing dilutes' or 'dilute clearwings' as they have and still are labelled. It is the failure of the breeders lack of knowledge on the subject to ascertain a correct visual diagnosis. Coming back to Dilutes and Greywings, it is the same problem. Pairings producing both Dilutes and Greywings from the same nest. Often the breeder is unaware the Greywings are split for Dilute. Birds produced from pairings of both alleles will be influenced from one another. Clearwings also play a part here as this is employed by some to produce the Full-bodied Greywing which is a composite of the Greywing and Clearwing. Things can get quite complicated when this is done as over time any Clearwings that are produced WILL be heavily marked and many have been sold (and shown) as bad Greywings. If a pairing such as a Full-bodied Greywing is paired to a Dilute thinking that the Dilute is a Greywing the results will be Greywings and Clearwings only of which all will be split for Dilute. The Clearwings produced will be very heavy in the wing markings but will have that stronger body colour. The breeder cannot descern the difference keeps the bird and puts it back into the Greywings without records will just keep perpetuating the existance of these birds and at some point down the track another Clearwing will surface and again not be recognised for what it is. Many a new breeder has bought in Greywings that are split for Dilute and paired them together to produce Greywings and Dilutes in the same nest and then just considered the Dilutes are a lighter version and then sell them on or breed with them as light Greywings. Full-bodied Greywings, same problem, the beginner buys and then breeds a host of birds looking similar but different if you get my meaning. But being a beginner they can't tell the difference, get bad advice and subsequently breed or sell these birds on. Another factor which complicates this is that a great deal of the Greywings these days are grey factored birds and this makes it more difficult to ascertain depth of colour. I would bet my entire stud that this person you quote from Kaz has not bred Greywings from his/her Dilutes at all. What this 'top' judge is seeing is the modified versions I speak of above. Many times over the twenty years I was breeding I have had these birds presented before me with the same scenario only to find they were dirty Clearwings or heavily suffused Dilutes with dark wing markings.

You can also use the low flow nipple drinkers on soft drink bottles.

I am still trying to figure out how violet came into it. But that dilute hen produced a mauve baby once with a light green dom pied father. She could not produce a Mauve from the pairing to a Light Green. Could the Light Green Dom Pied have been a poorly coloured Dark Green perhaps.

yes i wasnt meaning you wont get anymore help i was just meaning you better taking them in person and talk and see ask questions to keep them healthy till vet no veggies just freash water and seed okay most important GB I am going to completely disagree with you on the no veggie thing. Quite often in order to get a bird to eat you have to feed it what ever it will eat. Sick birds can't always digest seed for one reason or another. Key factors to get birds through illness is quite, subdued lighting, warmth and both food and water given at body temperature. I had a hen here that got very sick indeed and almost died. She could not put weight on at all. Suspect was most likely Megabacteria. Now as everybody knows this makes the proventriculous almost useless at absorbing nutrients. To combat this problem I have always feed soaked warm seed (canary, white millet, wheat, oats, buckwheat) or what is on hand, along with copious quantities of Sow Thistle, Silverbeet or other leafy veggies but my favourite is Sow Thistle for its natural healing properties. Dry seed is always available and glucose (Spark if you have it) in the water which is warm. If you have crop feed the bird to get it over the worst with Baby Rice Cerel (easily digested, easy on the birds system). This hen today is fit and healthy and in fact raised chicks.