KathyW

okay, so they are now 5 weeks old??? Fully feathered now? They *might* be just old enough to feed themselves if they have a role model to follow. Do you have another cage (with no nest box) that you could put an unattached independent male and the remaining youngsters in to "show them the ropes" so to speak? Leave plenty of seed scattered on their floor for them to forage in. Foraging is a natural instinct for them. If that doesn't work you may have no choice but to hand feed them. Not easy with older chicks unless they are used to being handled and very co-operative :-( KathyW.

For the last few days I've been concerned about two of my beautiful (IMHO) blue and white pied chicks. They had not been fed as well as I would have liked. Mum was going out of condition and dad ... well that two timer was having it off with another hen in the aviary!!! And obviously NOT performing his fatherly duties to help feed the chicks. So when the youngsters yet again still only had light feeds in their crops by lunch time I decided it was time for some drastic action. Either I had to supplement with hand feeding or catch the parents and move the entire family to a breeding cage. Fortunately I have not long finished cleaning and renovating the breeding cabinets so there are plenty of empties to spare. I managed to catch mum and stuffed her and babies into the nest box after taping mesh over the hole so she couldn't immediately get out. Then caught dad and put him in the cage and left them alone for a half hour or so. I was pleased to see dad on the perch to the box when I came back to check and take the mesh off. It was also good to hear little feeding noises from the chicks at the same time. When mum eventually came out of the box, she was happily greeted by (the two-timing) dad. This evening when I went to check (with some warm hand rearing mix ready just-in-case) she was back IN the box with the chicks, dad standing guard. Hopefully with no competition (for seed or affection) the chicks will be properly fed, fingers crossed! Now an anxious wait to see what the morning brings ... KathyW.

A metal frame - gal square section, angle or pipe depending on your "builder" ;-) - would be longer lasting. It may be cheaper to buy a "kit form" aviary - usually steel clad, colour-bond or similar. Depends on what size or look you want for your aviary. I have used wood - house frame timber (untreated) - on my first aviary when I was a kid (my dad built it for me) and the birds DID gnaw great chunks out of it. All aviaries from then on have been metal of one sort or another. For a free-form aviary gal pipe is great as you can put it together with downee fittings and get as "creative" as you like with shape etc, and modify it more easily than a welded frame. Bit like an overgrown mechano set ... but I digress ... Good luck, KathyW.

Baby birds can be pretty noisy when they're hungry. And they tend to "squeak" a bit if they are trying to squark while they're being fed! They are budgies yes? How old? KathyW.

My gosh is it 2 weeks already?!?!?!? So very pleased to hear about Yumi's progress and looking forward to pics :-) KathyW.

Make sure you do NOT return them to the open aviary until AFTER the weather has warmed up again. Once they get used to the warm (room) they need to stay there until mid-late spring, after any risk of cold weather has past. KathyW.

ORCA, there comes a point where you have to cut your losses. I can see you love your little budgie, but if your family is having to go without to pay exorbitant vet fees for a vet that sounds like she's no good anyway, you need to reassess your priorities. Make Sara as comfortable as possible and avoid anything that might stress her. Make sure she has plenty of fluids to help her replace the blood loss, and let her sleep when she needs it. Sleep can be the best medicine. Keep her comfortable, quiet, well fed on her normal diet if she'll eat and let nature take it's course. Sincerely, KathyW.

Are they in a flight or small cage? If the latter they may not be getting enough exercise for the amount of food available to them. KathyW.

If you decide to keep hand rearing it, and IF it survives, it might make a good pet. But it should not be used for breeding if it needs that much intervention to survive. On the other hand if you have a foster available with chicks of a similar size put it back with them. Otherwise Norm's suggestion of returning it to it's own nest and letting nature take it's course seems reasonable. It doesn't look well, time may solve the problem for you. Good luck, KathyW.

Well, that re-inforces my dislike of show bird trends. Most of those poor things looked like they would have a hard time seeing past their ornate head feathers. A bit like various breeds of dog that now have serious eye sight problems. I know the winning show bird look is fashionable and "desirable" to many, but I'm sorry, I just don't like it. It just does not seem beneficial to the future of the species. KathyW.

That was lucky!!! Congratulations on such a heroic and successful effort! KathyW.

Incubation time should be 18 days (give or take). June 7th to 29th (today) is 22 days. I think I read a post yesterday that indicated a wider range of times - up to 23 days! If it's not being incubated and it's cold to the touch its not likely to hatch anyway, but it wouldn't hurt to leave it a while longer, or you could candle it to see if it is/was fertile at all. When you do remove it, give the whole box a good clean, re-assess how it is attached to the cage, and maybe even replace the box with a deeper one? Good luck, KathyW.

Sounds like he could be on the mend. Good luck, he certainly sounds like a real little character! Cheers, KathyW.

This place is just so chock full of useful information and people! Damn I'm so glad I joined, you guys really rock! I've kept budgies for over 35 years, but I've picked up more in these last few weeks that I have in years of trial-and-error. Now all I have to do is remember it all! Michelle, I hope it works out for you and your chick. Looks like you couldn't have found a better place to call for help. KathyW.

If anyone else in your area keeps birds, ask them to keep an eye out for your little "Buttons". Often escapees are attracted to the sound of other birds, especially budgies. An empty cage with food on the bottom on the roof of the aviary has caught me a number new birds over the years - mostly budgies but once a canary! Don't give up all hope yet. KathyW.

Sorry to hear of your loss Shann. We all have things like that happen. The thing to do is learn from it and take steps if possible to not to make the same mistakes twice. Chalk it up to "experience" and move on, but don't ever forget ... Cheers, KathyW.

"The Budgerigar Program requires Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows NT, or Windows XP." No Mac version. KathyW.

I've had it happen a few times, but not very often. As long as they are not being deliberately evicted you could try putting them back. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I guess it depends on whether the escapee got too excited/anxious/eager to be fed and accidentally fell out or got pushed out by siblings trying to get to the parent at the nest hole ... or got too curious about the world outside. If the latter it'll be out again most likely in short order. The parents will feed them on the floor if they're good parents. Cheers, KathyW.

I've been reading through your own page Nerwen, on Genetics and following up some of the links from Good Reading On Genetics. It's heavy going at the moment ... but hopefully it will become clear eventually I've looked at the ones you mentioned and as many others as I could find and none are available for Mac OS X. One is available for Mac Classic but I don't like it much. I detest running VirtualPC on my Mac unless I absolutely have to and I'm not interested in getting a windows box to run the software. Windows is just too much trouble / hard work / trouble. Besides most of the commercial ones are far too complicated for what I want or need. Hence I'm writing my own as a web app (which is what I do for work). Now ... back to reading - fascinating that birds are "XY" females and "XX" males - opposite to humans ... or rather "ZZ/ZW"!!. Still trying to get my head around that one ... Cheers, KathyW.

I would have said "foster", but obviously you can't. Seven is a pretty big clutch, and under the circumstances there's not much you can do. Just make sure the parents have plenty of good food within easy reach and hope for the best. Good luck, KathyW.

Wayno, as I read Norm's post, the biological father may not have to raise ANY of the chicks! He's got some cocks he suspects are infertile, but might make good "foster" fathers. The desired male gets to spend time with the ladies to produce fertile eggs (see Daz's post of Stan Richardson article An Unorthodox Breeding Method ) As I read Norm's post the infertile cocks get to go back with the hens to make themselves useful (feeding / raising chicks). It happens quite a bit in nature, cocks raising chicks that are not their own. Cheers, KathyW.

Vonn, Just a suggestion - when you DO start introducing other foods into his diet do so only ONE type at a time. I may be way off mark here but he *may* have developed a food intolerance to something. Keep his diet really plain for a while and introduce new things slowly, watching for any change in behaviour or droppings. Just a thought, KathyW.

If she had spent a long time in small pet shop cages she may be too out of condition to fly, especially if she's been on a poor diet with little or no exercise. That on top of the stress of a move to a strange aviary environment, little to no flying ability and wet conditions is a recipe for disaster especially at this time of year! Birds accustomed to sheltered in-door accomodation should NEVER be subjected suddenly to outdoor aviaries in the extremes of winter or summer. If she continues to improve - a warm environment and proper diet should do wonders. A little medication - multivitamin or similar - would not hurt, but in her weakened state I'd be careful using anything too strong. By early summer all going well she should be fine for cautious release to an aviary if that's what you still want to do :budgiedance: If her flying is still poor, make sure there are low perches in the aviary so she can get off the ground until she builds up her flying muscles. Good luck, KathyW.

Could you explain in a bit more depth Nerwen? I've been reading the various posts discussing the genetics with some fascination but it is not a subject I'm that familiar with (yet). If you can give me a plain English overview, kinda an "executive summary" and pointers to GOOD further reading I'd appreciate it. No. It's being developed as an application of PHP using a flat file (csv) database for portability. Cheers, KathyW.

I'm putting together a VERY simple database to use as a basis for my record keeping. Can anyone suggest any important fields I may have missed from the following: "BirdID" - unique id - eg ring number/code; "In" - hatched date - actual or estimate. Used to calculate current age on the fly; "Out" - died / sold / etc date feld; "Sex" - M / F - self explanatory; "Description" - text field - type description, notes etc; "MotherID" - BirdID of mother; "FatherID" - BirdID of father; I can handle images fairly easily by linking them to the unique "BirdID" by name. Progeny will all have their own entries and be linked to the parent birds through the "MotherID" and "FatherID" fields so there is no need to include progeny or mates in an individual birds entry. Have I missed anything basic but important that cannot be worked out or should not be included in the "catch-all" Description field? Cheers, KathyW.