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L__J

Opaline Something

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Parents are

YF Albino Hen X YF Greywing Opaline Cock

 

 

Someone take a guess?

goy7.jpg

 

41nx.jpg

 

mfcz.jpg

 

 

 

Heres its sibbling which I think is a grey wing.

gf94.jpg

Edited by L__J

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It looks like the first one is an Opaline Spangle, which makes me think your yellowface albino hen may infact have black eyes and is not albino but possibly a double factor spangle, which would explain the progeny, the second one is a cinamon wing opaline violet- mauve kinda color.

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The Hen is yf ino. I have so far 5 ino chicks from her. all had red eyes when born.

 

others in the nest box had black eyes.

 

I have a DF spangle inside, so can rule out her being a DF spangle lol.

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Can't albinos mask double factor spangle? I was told that a while ago when I got a spangle from an albino and normal pairing.

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perhaps thats it Budgie Lover Albino masking spangle, not sure how that masking thing goes but maybe thats it. If someone could perhaps explain the masking thing that would be appreciated.

Edited by trefto

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Not entirely sure how it works but they can mask other mutations through the albino gene. So a couple of things can appear when breeding from an albino.

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I have found a good site that explains how masking works, an albino or lutino can have mutations under its yellow or white coats of color.

 

If you have a read through this website it will help you understand:

http://www.bcv.asn.au/Masking.htm

 

Cheers,

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Heres its sibbling which I think is a grey wing.

gf94.jpg

 

Not sure if it's my screen but it looks as though it is a cinnamon? could you please clarify the coloring

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Looks like a cinnamon on my screen :)

 

and yes, Ino birds can mask (hide) any mutation.

So mom must be masking sf spangle.

 

If only dad is opaline then the opaline chicks are all girls.

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You are right there is Spangles and Cinnamon in this nestbox as well as yf ino's

 

Got some really nice purple colors..

 

Still not sure if that top one is spangle isn't there meant to be black in the wings?

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some dilute spangles have no black color also if spangle are combined with opaline.

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As you have paired 2 yf Birds your chicks could be Df Yf, This will show as visual white, any future mating of these chicks with a yf will show as white face, if mated with a non yf will produce Yf visuals.

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Still not sure if that top one is spangle isn't there meant to be black in the wings?

 

The top one is opaline spangle. The opaline combined with spangle shows body colour on the wings like the wing markings on your pretty chick. It also looks to be a hen.

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If the baby is an opaline spangle it would have to be female as opaline is sex linked and unless the albino was also masking opaline only the father holds it.

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Thanks guys..

 

These budgies have been bought and the person is going to breed them next year.

 

Hopefully I see his results :)..

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Both the chicks would be hen birds as they could only get the cinnamon and the opaline from the father as he is opaline all his hen bird chicks will also be opaline and he must also be split for cinnamon, which means a percentage of his hen bird chicks will also show cinnamon. Hen birds cannot be split for sex linked genetics, therefore the mother Albino hen is not split for anything, she is a visual albino only. A cock bird split for sex linked genetics will throw those genes to a percentage of his hen bird progeny.

Edited by trefto

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My comments are added in red below:

 

Both the chicks would be hen birds as they could only get the cinnamon and the opaline from the father as he is opaline all his hen bird chicks will also be opaline and he must also be split for cinnamon, which means a percentage of his hen bird chicks will also show cinnamon. Hen birds cannot be split for sex linked genetics Correct, therefore the mother Albino hen is not split for anything, she is a visual albino only. This is not true. The mother can be masking opaline. All of the mother's genetics except for the yellowface are hidden by the ino, and the only way to know if she is in fact opaline is for her to throw an opaline son. A cock bird split for sex linked genetics will throw those genes to a percentage of his hen bird progeny. He will also throw the sex linked gene to a percentage of his male progeny, in split form, unless their mother is sex-linked, allowing the son to be visual.

 

As you have paired 2 yf Birds your chicks could be Df Yf, This will show as visual white, any future mating of these chicks with a yf will show as white face, if mated with a non yf will produce Yf visuals.

 

This only works with the yellow face mutant one. In that case, both parents will have yellow faces but blue bodies. If L__J's birds are the more common yellowface mutant two, in which the yellow bleeds into the body changing the blue to sea green, then producing blue chicks just means that both parents are split to blue (i.e. single factor yf2).

 

So L__J. which yellowface mutation are your parent birds? Photos of them would help.

 

I will also point out that since there is cinnamon in the mix, that top chick could be a cinnamon opaline greywing spangle. I have produced several of this combination, and that is what they look like. Opaline greywing spangles without the cinnamon also look like this.

 

One other thing you can tell about the ino mother's genetics: She might be split to greywing, but she can't be masking it, or else that cinnamon chick would have come out looking like a greywing.

 

If the mother is not a lacewing, then all the cinnamon chicks will be girls.

 

L__J, does any of this give you ideas on how you want to use that yf ino hen now?

Edited by Finnie

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The Hen is yf ino. I have so far 5 ino chicks from her. all had red eyes when born.

 

others in the nest box had black eyes.

 

I have a DF spangle inside, so can rule out her being a DF spangle lol.

 

Unless the ino hen was paired to an ino cock or split ino cock you cannot get ino chicks from a hen.....she can only give males split for it. :)

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Finni

My comments are added in red below:

 

Both the chicks would be hen birds as they could only get the cinnamon and the opaline from the father as he is opaline all his hen bird chicks will also be opaline and he must also be split for cinnamon, which means a percentage of his hen bird chicks will also show cinnamon. Hen birds cannot be split for sex linked genetics Correct, therefore the mother Albino hen is not split for anything, she is a visual albino only. This is not true. The mother can be masking opaline. All of the mother's genetics except for the yellowface are hidden by the ino, and the only way to know if she is in fact opaline is for her to throw an opaline son. A cock bird split for sex linked genetics will throw those genes to a percentage of his hen bird progeny. He will also throw the sex linked gene to a percentage of his male progeny, in split form, unless their mother is sex-linked, allowing the son to be visual.

 

As you have paired 2 yf Birds your chicks could be Df Yf, This will show as visual white, any future mating of these chicks with a yf will show as white face, if mated with a non yf will produce Yf visuals.

 

This only works with the yellow face mutant one. In that case, both parents will have yellow faces but blue bodies. If L__J's birds are the more common yellowface mutant two, in which the yellow bleeds into the body changing the blue to sea green, then producing blue chicks just means that both parents are split to blue (i.e. single factor yf2).

 

So L__J. which yellowface mutation are your parent birds? Photos of them would help.

 

I will also point out that since there is cinnamon in the mix, that top chick could be a cinnamon opaline greywing spangle. I have produced several of this combination, and that is what they look like. Opaline greywing spangles without the cinnamon also look like this.

 

One other thing you can tell about the ino mother's genetics: She might be split to greywing, but she can't be masking it, or else that cinnamon chick would have come out looking like a greywing.

 

If the mother is not a lacewing, then all the cinnamon chicks will be girls.

 

L__J, does any of this give you ideas on how you want to use that yf ino hen now?

 

Finnie you are right on your correction of my previous post, in that yes ino can mask any other color variety, as was previously my misunderstanding. Sorry for the confusion.

 

I believe however that ino will not mask texas clearbody though, as texas clearbody is dominant to ino.

 

Perhaps someone more knowledgable can point out to us all, just exactly what color mutations can be masked by ino

Wheres Nev?, he seems pretty cluey

Edited by trefto

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Finnie my understanding is that an ino hen bird is a sex linked variety which shows its color mutation in the hen bird or if does not show the sex linked color mutation ino, then it is only a normal color bird, the same goes for opaline in budgerigars, as this also is a sex linked variety it either shows itself as an opaline color mutation in a hen bird and if not showing opaline then it is a normal color bird that cannot be split for opaline in a hen bird, I would say that since this is true then an ino hen bird not being able to be split for opaline a sex linked variety, then the ino hen bird cannot then mask a sex linked variety such as opaline. However I do accept that ino does mask other dominant varieties such as spangle, but I don't accept that ino masks sex linked varieties. Unless someone wants to prove me wrong this is what I stand by.

 

Perhaps someone knowledgable can point out to us all, just exactly what color mutations can be masked by ino

Wheres Nev?, he seems pretty cluey

 

An albino can mask any color, the albino hen may have the opaline wing markings on her but because she is albino her white coat hides any markings. She isn't split to opaline she is just masking it, meaning it is a visual mutation on her body but it is masked.

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name='BUDGIE L0V3R' timestamp='1389937743' post='384378']

Finnie my understanding is that an ino hen bird is a sex linked variety which shows its color mutation in the hen bird or if does not show the sex linked color mutation ino, then it is only a normal color bird, the same goes for opaline in budgerigars, as this also is a sex linked variety it either shows itself as an opaline color mutation in a hen bird and if not showing opaline then it is a normal color bird that cannot be split for opaline in a hen bird, I would say that since this is true then an ino hen bird not being able to be split for opaline a sex linked variety, then the ino hen bird cannot then mask a sex linked variety such as opaline. However I do accept that ino does mask other dominant varieties such as spangle, but I don't accept that ino masks sex linked varieties. Unless someone wants to prove me wrong this is what I stand by.

 

Perhaps someone knowledgable can point out to us all, just exactly what color mutations can be masked by ino

Wheres Nev?, he seems pretty cluey

 

An albino can mask any color, the albino hen may have the opaline wing markings on her but because she is albino her white coat hides any markings. She isn't split to opaline she is just masking it, meaning it is a visual mutation on her body but it is masked.

[/u]

 

 

Okay, thanks budgie lover, if this is true I stand corrected, haven't heard that before, learn something new every day.

 

Okay sorry Finnie, you were right I were wrong, I now understand that "The albino factor does not interfere with light and dark factors, nor does it affect the sex linked factors for cinnamon or opaline. Everything is still there, but it has been bleached out."

interesting to know.

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That is correct trefto

Edited by BUDGIE L0V3R

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Okay, thanks budgie lover, if this is true I stand corrected, haven't heard that before, learn something new every day.

 

Okay sorry Finnie, you were right I were wrong, I now understand that "The albino factor does not interfere with light and dark factors, nor does it affect the sex linked factors for cinnamon or opaline. Everything is still there, but it has been bleached out."

interesting to know.

 

Thanks, trefto. I think sometimes there is confusion about whether to use the word "masking" vs the word "split to". But yes, I agree, a hen can't be split to a sex-linked mutation.

 

Trefto, I think you are right about the Texas clearbody and the ino. I also had forgotten that ino doesn't mask cinnamon- you get lacewings that way. I will hunt up a Wikipedia article that may be of some help here.

 

I've copied and pasted the part of the chart that is pertinent:

 

Cinnamon Cinnamon SL Incomplete Albinism cin+ cin S-L-R

Ino Albino, Lutino SL Complete Albinism ino+ ino S-L-R

Cinnamon-Ino Lacewing SL Incomplete Albinism cin+ ; ino+ cin / ino S-L-R cross-over (3% frequency) between Cinnamon & Ino Loci

Sex-linked Clearbody Texas Clearbody Partial-Albinistic (Par-ino) ino+ inocl SL-Co-D with other ino locus alleles, else S-L-R

 

 

Here is a link to the entire article, this chart is way down http://en.wikipedia....lour_genetics http://en.wikipedia....colour_genetics

 

I highlighted in red on the chart where it says the Texas Clearbody gene is co-dominant with the other ino locus alleles. If this article is correct, then TCB shouldn't entirely mask the ino or vice versa. I'm not sure what that would look like. If only some TCB breeders would come and tell us. (Oh, and I haven't seen Neville around in a long time. I think I've seen him more active on Talkbudgies, but I haven't checked there in a long time.)

 

There are some old threads here about TCB and ino, if anybody wants to look them up. It would make more sense if the TCB was completely dominant to the ino.

 

I found this article by a very well respected breeder in England. He says TCB is dominant to ino.

 

http://server1.web-mania.com/users/betofbre/al-nasser/article8.htm

Edited by Finnie
the chart didn't come out looking like an actual chart.

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